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Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-10-21 10:28:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Cliquish
Entry tags:books, pretention, reviews, wanking inside the house

"YA!" "Middle grade!" "YA!" "Middle grade!"
Wank of the SF book reviewing variety- which pretty much automatically means, "Pretentious genre debate and flashing-credentials variety."

Paul Kincaid, a British SF reviewer, writes a review of the non-SF novel The Wild Girls for the SFSite. The review is pretty tepid, and was essentially only done because the author, Pat Murphy, has also written SF novels.

Literaticat, an American on LJ, disagrees.



Her main bone of contention? "It isn't a YA novel. It is very clearly a middle grade novel. And yes, there's a difference. Consider how prickly many in the SF/F community get about people who are ignorant and dismissive about SF/F. Well, that's how children's book people feel when people are idiots about children's books. GRR. I don't understand why you would want to review a mainstream children's book when that is so clearly NOT your forte, or why you would post it on an SF site... But moving on.



The SF Blog Torque Control reports on both the review and the response, and the blog editor gives his own opinion, which falls solidly on Kincaid's side. This inspires a comment thread in which people from both sides show up to argue about what "middle grade" (a US book categorization that does not exist in the UK) should mean, and whether a UK reviewer is obligated to be familiar with the US book market's labels before he reviews a book.

Kincaid then responds with a quiet but decisive takedown of Literaticat's opinion:



What gets me is that I am being castigated for using the term "Young Adult" rather than "middle grade" in describing the book, a solecism that is apparently sufficient to deny me the right ever to review a children's novel. This is patent balderdash. For a start, if "middle grade" is a commonly used literary term it is only among a select circle in the US. The term does not appear on the book. The term does not appear on any of the publicity associated with the book that I have received. The term is not used by the author, who refers to it simply as a children's book. And the term is meaningless to any readership outside the US (here in Britain, for instance) where "middle grade" does not exist within the school system. Writing on SF Site, for an audience that is presumably mostly adult and presumably mostly interested in science fiction, who might, therefore, pick up on the book because they know Pat Murphy as an adult sf author, the simplest and most effective way of alerting the readership seemed to me to refer to it as YA.



Will there be further developments in the exciting saga of what we should call this marketing category? Stay tuned!



(Post a new comment)


[info]stasha
2007-10-21 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Sure, literary categories are Serious Business, indeedy deed.

It's even somewhat amusing in a "lol, mericans think their categories are everybody's categories" sense.

I'm still not sure I see any actual wank here.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 04:16 pm UTC (link)
Well, I do think that it's wanky in the pretentious circle-jerky way, not the flamewar way. I'm happy to post a disclaimer if people disagree, though (I don't think it should be deleted, because I know how irritating it is when people do that).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]themadmermaid, 2007-10-21 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2007-10-21 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-21 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]theonedespot, 2007-10-21 05:12 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2007-10-21 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Although only one person's replied to it yet, Literaticat's attempt at backpedaling with her (paraphrased) "Can't you take a fucking JOKE?" comment on Paul's post struck me as quite wanky.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]esclaramonde
2007-10-21 09:08 pm UTC (link)
It's even somewhat amusing in a "lol, mericans think their categories are everybody's categories" sense.

It's not even really that, because I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a "middle grade" category separate from YA.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2007-10-22 08:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anonyrat, 2007-10-30 12:39 am UTC

[info]ryuutchi
2007-10-23 04:10 am UTC (link)
Seriously, I'm an American studying to go into Young Adult services and I've never heard of middle grade before.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]themadmermaid
2007-10-21 04:31 pm UTC (link)
I've never, ever, heard the term Middle Grade, and I reside here in the lovely United States of Whatever.

You’re just trying to explain away a tepid review via some of the most tortuous special pleading I’ve ever seen.

Take that!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 05:02 pm UTC (link)
I've never heard it either. In fact, at first I thought it must be a UK term, just because I would have expected it to be unfamiliar if it was.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sashenka
2007-10-21 05:44 pm UTC (link)
THESE ARE MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER *dundun doo-dundun*

Come on, I can't be the only one to remember that awful song... *crickets*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kahteh, 2007-10-21 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-21 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]meammouse, 2007-10-21 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2007-10-23 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2007-10-23 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-10-23 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]etcetera_cat, 2007-10-21 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadmermaid, 2007-10-22 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-22 02:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2007-10-22 06:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-22 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2007-10-22 03:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-22 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadmermaid, 2007-10-23 02:35 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-10-22 06:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-22 08:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mary_mac, 2007-10-23 09:34 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2007-10-23 03:14 am UTC (link)
Same here, and I'm a shameless fan of kid's books. Maybe it's only used by children's librarians and reading teachers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eilan
2007-10-21 05:07 pm UTC (link)
Am I getting this right?

Author: This is a Children's book.

Reviewer: This is a Young Adult book.

Reviewer of reviewer: This is a Middle Grade book.

Reviewer: Bloody Americans.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Essentially. With a side of:

Reviewer of Reviewers: This is a middle grade book, and if you don't know that, you shouldn't be reviewing the book.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2007-10-21 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-21 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-10-23 04:43 pm UTC

[info]cat_mcdougall
2007-10-21 05:34 pm UTC (link)
I had never heard the term "middle grade" until I went looking for a book at my library for my daughter. And then, I was heartily confused, because I didn't understand how they classified "middle grade". I still don't. I'm just glad they changed their catalogue so it says "middle grade fiction." Makes finding the books much easier.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 05:41 pm UTC (link)
According to a comment on the Kincaid post, middle grade is 10-14, YA 12-18. So they can overlap anyway.

I fail to see why introducing a new category is good for anyone but publishers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cat_mcdougall, 2007-10-21 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-21 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2007-10-21 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-21 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-10-21 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-10-21 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:00 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-10-22 02:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mary_mac, 2007-10-23 09:36 pm UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-21 08:26 pm UTC (link)
The difference is really simple: Middle grade books are written so that people with the maturity and world experience of a gradeschooler can read and understand them. They don't involve things such as dating, heavy complicated emotional issues, or meta, because most children in the 7-12 year old range would find those concepts incomprehensible, terrifying, or boring.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-21 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-22 01:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-10-23 04:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-23 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-10-29 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-29 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2007-10-21 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:09 am UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-21 08:22 pm UTC (link)
I'm stunned that so many of these people don't understand that it's not just reading ability that makes an 8 year old different from a 24 year old.

I'm blaming their confusion on those sickly-bright sitcom children, who everyone knows are highly realistic.

(Reply to this)


[info]kaesa
2007-10-21 10:37 pm UTC (link)
Meh. This whole thing used to be completely obnoxious back when I was ten and wanted adventurey plots and interesting characters without all the boring kissing that was in the stuff that was popular at the time. Now that I'm older, I'm kind of baffled at the number of adults who don't remember being kids.

Once you turn 21, the MiB don't show up and wipe your memory of all the things that happened to you before you turned 14, right? Otherwise, I'm going to have to be prepared to fight them off.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lysana
2007-10-23 08:33 pm UTC (link)
In my experience, it's an invitation-only basis sort of thing. You can remember, but so many choose not to.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ironymaiden
2007-10-21 11:27 pm UTC (link)
Is "middle grade" a new classification? I've never heard of it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 11:42 pm UTC (link)
Welcome to the club.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 01:10 am UTC (link)
Hands you an educational link

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ironymaiden, 2007-10-22 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2007-10-23 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2007-10-22 05:56 am UTC

[info]blackjackrocket
2007-10-21 11:53 pm UTC (link)
I've never heard "middle grade" and I used to work in a school library. Does it mean "middle school"?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-22 12:23 am UTC (link)
At this point, I think it's a term that aliens from the planet Zogoldubinuf have beamed among us to keep us confused and arguing about it while they silently take over the world.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2007-10-22 12:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-22 12:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2007-10-22 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2007-10-22 01:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2007-10-22 01:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-10-22 01:11 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2007-10-22 04:44 am UTC (link)
I have never heard the term 'middle grade' (and I live in the US). However, from reading the definition it seems like they're referring to what my library classifies as 'Juvenile' lit - younger than YA but heftier than Children's books.

(Reply to this)


[info]mcity
2007-10-22 05:53 am UTC (link)
castigated
solecism
patent balderdash
That's, what, eight vocabulary points?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pastri_archy, 2007-10-22 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - pastri_archy, 2007-10-22 11:26 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2007-10-27 02:44 am UTC (link)
"middle grade"??

What is this Middle grade?

I have worked in various bookstores for over ten years now and I have never heard that term. It used to be caled Juvenile Literature, it is now called Intermediate.

And she's psycho, yes she is.

lincolnkw on lj

(Reply to this)


 
   
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