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Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-10-21 10:28:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Cliquish
Entry tags:books, pretention, reviews, wanking inside the house

"YA!" "Middle grade!" "YA!" "Middle grade!"
Wank of the SF book reviewing variety- which pretty much automatically means, "Pretentious genre debate and flashing-credentials variety."

Paul Kincaid, a British SF reviewer, writes a review of the non-SF novel The Wild Girls for the SFSite. The review is pretty tepid, and was essentially only done because the author, Pat Murphy, has also written SF novels.

Literaticat, an American on LJ, disagrees.



Her main bone of contention? "It isn't a YA novel. It is very clearly a middle grade novel. And yes, there's a difference. Consider how prickly many in the SF/F community get about people who are ignorant and dismissive about SF/F. Well, that's how children's book people feel when people are idiots about children's books. GRR. I don't understand why you would want to review a mainstream children's book when that is so clearly NOT your forte, or why you would post it on an SF site... But moving on.



The SF Blog Torque Control reports on both the review and the response, and the blog editor gives his own opinion, which falls solidly on Kincaid's side. This inspires a comment thread in which people from both sides show up to argue about what "middle grade" (a US book categorization that does not exist in the UK) should mean, and whether a UK reviewer is obligated to be familiar with the US book market's labels before he reviews a book.

Kincaid then responds with a quiet but decisive takedown of Literaticat's opinion:



What gets me is that I am being castigated for using the term "Young Adult" rather than "middle grade" in describing the book, a solecism that is apparently sufficient to deny me the right ever to review a children's novel. This is patent balderdash. For a start, if "middle grade" is a commonly used literary term it is only among a select circle in the US. The term does not appear on the book. The term does not appear on any of the publicity associated with the book that I have received. The term is not used by the author, who refers to it simply as a children's book. And the term is meaningless to any readership outside the US (here in Britain, for instance) where "middle grade" does not exist within the school system. Writing on SF Site, for an audience that is presumably mostly adult and presumably mostly interested in science fiction, who might, therefore, pick up on the book because they know Pat Murphy as an adult sf author, the simplest and most effective way of alerting the readership seemed to me to refer to it as YA.



Will there be further developments in the exciting saga of what we should call this marketing category? Stay tuned!



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]cat_mcdougall
2007-10-21 05:34 pm UTC (link)
I had never heard the term "middle grade" until I went looking for a book at my library for my daughter. And then, I was heartily confused, because I didn't understand how they classified "middle grade". I still don't. I'm just glad they changed their catalogue so it says "middle grade fiction." Makes finding the books much easier.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 05:41 pm UTC (link)
According to a comment on the Kincaid post, middle grade is 10-14, YA 12-18. So they can overlap anyway.

I fail to see why introducing a new category is good for anyone but publishers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cat_mcdougall
2007-10-21 05:45 pm UTC (link)
But... I've seen the Junie B. Jones books classed as "middle grade" and I know those are for a younger group than 10-14. In fact, they're usually classed for 7-10.

So... something's screwy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. It seems to be one of those terms that everyone who knows about it uses a different definition of and those outside the circle have never heard of and don't care about.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sashenka
2007-10-21 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I read more Young Adult fiction now than I did when I was in the age group for it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-21 08:23 pm UTC (link)
What, what? No!

Middle grade is 7-12. Dividing things up into 10-14 and 12-18 makes no sense whatsoever.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]esclaramonde
2007-10-21 09:10 pm UTC (link)
But isn't "middle grade" grades 6, 7, and 8, thus ages 11 - 13?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]esclaramonde
2007-10-21 09:10 pm UTC (link)
* aren't. :(

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 12:56 am UTC (link)
Two totally different systems. This has nothing to do with school.

Middle grade readers means they are better than beginner but not quite advanced yet.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 01:00 am UTC (link)
You know this might be part of the confusion -- because there is no "middle school" in Britain.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2007-10-22 02:41 am UTC (link)
Er.. yes there is! Depends on where you live, but there are middle schools and high schools in many areas. Some LEAs only have that system, and not primary and secondary.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 02:56 am UTC (link)
Man there's a lot of confusion here. So there is middle school in Britain, and middle grade readers has absolutely nothing to do with middle school and it's now apparent that despite the aloofness with which these people wank, they really have no clue what they are talking about.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mary_mac
2007-10-23 09:36 pm UTC (link)
In fairness, its very very few schools. And they're usually linked up as campuses of one school. Its nothing like the US system, even if it has the same names.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-21 08:26 pm UTC (link)
The difference is really simple: Middle grade books are written so that people with the maturity and world experience of a gradeschooler can read and understand them. They don't involve things such as dating, heavy complicated emotional issues, or meta, because most children in the 7-12 year old range would find those concepts incomprehensible, terrifying, or boring.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-21 08:33 pm UTC (link)
But see, according to literaticat, The Wild Girls does work with heavily complicated emotional issues (divorce and abandonment). So this is one reason I think the term is close to useless. Everyone seems to have a different idea of it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 01:06 am UTC (link)
But that's precisely why Kincaid didn't like it. Because it treated the subjects divorce and abandonment in "simple light terms" in other words, in terms a middle reader can understand. It's an important subject for these kids, lord knows they go through it, but they simply can't handle the subject the way an adult can. What Kincaid sees as being "talked down to" is just not talking over the heads of the target audience.

You simply can't have the same expectations of a book written for 8-12 year olds that you do for an adult audience -- sometimes there is crossover interest, but the two usually have very different expectations and needs.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]limyaael
2007-10-22 01:32 am UTC (link)
Ah, but literaticat- the one who supposedly knows what "middle grade" means- insists that the book is dark and complex and Kincaid just doesn't know what he's talking about.

I personally agree with Kincaid: you can have a book that treats the subjects in terms fit for its audience but doesn't dumb it down. And saying that Kincaid can't understand the book because it's of a certain American marketing category is just silly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 01:48 am UTC (link)
Well this is how I read this whole thing:

Kincaid: Adults (his audience) will find this simplistic and missing the doubts, hesitation and darker aspects of a realistic crises. So, I'm luke warm on this book.

literacicat: Dude, this was written for 8 year olds, you want to give them a complex? This is about as dark as they can handle. And why the hell are you reviewing a book meant for gradeschoolers?

Kincaid (in comments section): Well sure the subject is dark, but you can write it in such a way that doesn't talk under adult readers. You can make small events traumatic as hell or make large events like this one flat and lacking in existential angst. This dark isn't dark enough for adults.

Readers in comments section: Dude this book is for 8 year olds. You know the kids who dress up in halloween clothes and beg for candy? Have you ever met one?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chvickers
2007-10-23 04:44 pm UTC (link)
You forgot...

literacat: AMERICA AMERICA NO OTHER COUNTRY EXISTS AMERICA MIDDLE SCHOOL COLLEGE AMERICA CAN'T YOU TAKE A JOKE

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-23 05:00 pm UTC (link)
Really this whole wank is centered around the fact that literacat used the words "middle grade readers" which is american, instead of "intermediate readers" which is the British equivilant.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with middleschool.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chvickers
2007-10-29 10:30 pm UTC (link)
But middle grade exactly equals middle school, right?

God, I don't know. Here anything remotely resembling "middle school" would be grades 7 to 9.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-29 10:37 pm UTC (link)
Is it really so hard to concieve of another grading system other than school? Beginning grade, Middle grade, Advance grade. Trust me, Middle grade readers are 7-11 year olds, one picture per chapter, short chapter books with a simple vocabulary and interest level set for gradeschoolers. Beginning grade is ages 4-6, Dr. Suess like books. Advance is the same as young adult.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dragonfangirl
2007-10-21 11:44 pm UTC (link)
...this was sarcasm, right?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-10-22 01:09 am UTC (link)
'fraid not. I'm not seeing the confusion.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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