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	demonbean 2007-11-20 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	I feel hopelessly dim. What is wrong with tables, especially since successful sites seem to be using them? Everyone seems so very excited about it, though ... (Reply to this)(Thread)

mcity
2007-11-20 09:48 pm UTC (link)

thread

- Sighted people aren't the only visitors to a website.
- HTML is meant to describe content, not make it look like something on a browser.
- Separation of content (HTML) and design (CSS) and behavior (Javascript) can make a site easier to update / redesign down the line.
- Keeping HTML, CSS and Javascript tiles separate improves download times by file caching. When I did my first tables to css conversion I reduced the download size from over 120kb to 30-50kb by stripping out the design formatting from the HTML. Can provide URLs of before and after pages to run speed tests on to see.

My addendum;

Also, tables rarely display properly on mobile devices, just like some Web 2.0 sites don't work right on older browsers. However, if you're doing CSS *right*, it should be easily viewable on both.

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esclaramonde, 2007-11-20 09:55 pm UTC

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whimsy_chan, 2007-11-20 11:24 pm UTC

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amymccabe, 2007-11-21 12:24 am UTC

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amymccabe, 2007-11-21 12:29 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 05:15 am UTC

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grrliz, 2007-11-21 05:22 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 05:32 am UTC

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napalmnacey, 2007-11-21 07:12 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 03:09 pm UTC

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sneer, 2007-11-20 10:55 pm UTC

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plazmah, 2007-11-20 11:21 pm UTC

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dragonfangirl, 2007-11-21 10:02 am UTC

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ilpalazzo, 2007-11-21 12:33 pm UTC

	lurker32 2007-11-20 11:41 pm UTC (link)
	...pretty much it's an ideological thing. The code must be pure! These are the same people who pop a blood vessel if you use <b> instead of <em>. In theory not using tables as a layout thing ensures that your layout displays properly on all browsers, etc. etc., which is all very nice, but in practice only crazed purists give a damn. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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lurker32, 2007-11-20 11:41 pm UTC

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grrliz, 2007-11-21 03:38 am UTC

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lurker32, 2007-11-21 07:00 am UTC

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grrliz, 2007-11-21 12:52 pm UTC

	plazmah 2007-11-20 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	HTML wank... My life is complete. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	danceswithelvis 2007-11-20 10:57 pm UTC (link)
	No no no...we need Tetris fanfiction wank! THEN it'll be complete. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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julian_black, 2007-11-20 11:06 pm UTC

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danceswithelvis, 2007-11-20 11:07 pm UTC

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puipui, 2007-11-21 12:11 am UTC

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danceswithelvis, 2007-11-21 12:20 am UTC

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puipui, 2007-11-21 12:22 am UTC

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plazmah, 2007-11-20 11:18 pm UTC

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danceswithelvis, 2007-11-20 11:19 pm UTC

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harrylovesron, 2007-11-20 11:55 pm UTC

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nostariel, 2007-11-21 08:29 am UTC

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demonbean, 2007-11-21 02:21 am UTC

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lil_miss_stfu, 2007-11-21 03:03 am UTC

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snarkbunny, 2007-11-21 02:10 pm UTC

	mcity 2007-11-21 05:22 am UTC (link)
	http://www.journalfen.net/community/otf_wank/361305.html (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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plazmah, 2007-11-21 09:41 pm UTC

	white_serpent 2007-11-20 09:52 pm UTC (link)
	there are concentration camps full of helpless animals, rainforests being cut down, ozones being depleted, are those issues too scary for you, maybe you feel like you can’t change them but you can use CSS instead of tables, Ah, yes: these are always my favorites. (Reply to this)

	southerngaelic 2007-11-20 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	So now people are wanking not only on the Internet, but about the Internet and its mechanisms? (Please correct me, but not with too much technical jargon. My computer's uses are for coursework, browsing, downloading and playing video games; anything else is far beyond me XD) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	twoiskewl 2007-11-20 11:13 pm UTC (link)
	yup. tables and CSS are two different ways to align stuff and make layouts, displays, etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cmdr_zoom 2007-11-21 12:01 am UTC (link)
	I think people have been wanking about "the Internet and its mechanisms" since it was, like, a dozen sites under DARPA administration. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kijikun 2007-11-20 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	We're going to be sharing our thoughts on html and tables now, aren't we? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	wolfsamurai 2007-11-20 11:28 pm UTC (link)
	It certainly seems that way. Maybe someone declared it "My Thoughts On [Wank], Let Me Show You Them" Month. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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kijikun, 2007-11-21 12:00 am UTC

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hallidae, 2007-11-21 12:10 am UTC

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kijikun, 2007-11-21 12:15 am UTC

	cmdr_zoom 2007-11-21 12:02 am UTC (link)
	Not me. Sitting on my hands. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	CODE GEEK ALERT grrliz 2007-11-21 03:33 am UTC (link)
	I'm lame enough that I'm actually excited to hear people's thoughts on html and tables. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: CODE GEEK ALERT -

black_spot, 2007-11-21 08:03 pm UTC

	mcity 2007-11-21 05:17 am UTC (link)
	I'd love to, but for your icon. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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kijikun, 2007-11-21 06:07 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 06:09 am UTC

	tiki 2007-11-20 11:26 pm UTC (link)
	lol "web 2.0" (Reply to this)(Thread)

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mindset, 2007-11-20 11:39 pm UTC

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ladybirdsleeps, 2007-11-20 11:45 pm UTC

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mindset, 2007-11-20 11:51 pm UTC

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tiki, 2007-11-21 01:08 am UTC

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mindset, 2007-11-21 03:45 am UTC

	worstangel 2007-11-20 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	... I am not ashamed to admit I lol'ed. (Reply to this)

	shaggydogstail 2007-11-21 01:32 am UTC (link)
	.otf_wank, humor { display: none; } .otf_wank, serrius bizness { background: url(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/wankas/thoughtsonyaoi.gif) top center repeat-y; } ... I should get out more, shouldn't I? (Reply to this)(Thread)

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grrliz, 2007-11-21 03:27 am UTC

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andra_dodger, 2007-11-24 08:43 pm UTC

grrliz
2007-11-21 03:32 am UTC (link)

YAY! Wank about a subject I care about!!

Table is really good for structuring your information and it’s better for search engine because it allows to make a difference between the structure and the graphism.

LMAO Isn't that the argument usually used in favour of divs?

I’ve been webdesigning for about 7 years now, and I don’t what is the problem with tables. Easier to manipulate, faster to put out.

Tables: like teenage girls with low self-esteem, in a way.

Anyway... CSS ALL THE WAY!!! [/thoughts on yaoi]

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mindset, 2007-11-21 04:18 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 05:18 am UTC

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mindset, 2007-11-21 07:25 am UTC

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mcity, 2007-11-21 05:21 am UTC

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ruuger, 2007-11-21 09:45 am UTC

	sepiamagpie 2007-11-21 10:33 am UTC (link)
	your MOM was a table. There. I said it. I've been meaning to tell you for a long time. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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eldritch, 2007-11-21 05:34 pm UTC

	bangoskank 2007-11-21 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	Jeez I just use tables because I can't figure out CSS. (Reply to this)

	vzg 2007-11-21 06:31 pm UTC (link)
	...Well, since this just makes me go, "Huh?" I'm going to have to put "website creation" down on the list of things I will never be able to do or properly understand. (Reply to this)

	black_spot 2007-11-21 07:30 pm UTC (link)
	CSS?. I’ve only just learnt HTML – oops! You should have seen the coding of my site when it was Word based – that would have given him an apoplexy. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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mcity, 2007-11-22 06:30 am UTC

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black_spot, 2007-11-22 09:31 pm UTC

	croik 2007-11-22 03:35 am UTC (link)
	Oh noes, I use tables for everything. :(((( still doesn't understand why they're bad (Reply to this)

	black_spot 2007-11-22 09:34 pm UTC (link)
	It is amusing that the servers are robust at the moment – is it something to do with coding? JF the new Scarlet Pimpernel> (Reply to this)