Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



Little Valkyrie ([info]waltraute) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2008-03-07 19:06:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Chicago: not New York, dammit
The LJ community [info]uchicago is, well, a community populated by students and alumni of the University of Chicago, a fine institution on the South Side of the city. Normal discussion includes questions about professors, where to get an apartment, and the general whining all students always engage in about their school.

Enter [info]gracchi, who has some misconceptions about the city itself to correct:

First: It makes the city boring to walk around. Walk from, say, East Harlem straight down into UES, down into midtown, down into the East Village there's always something to see, people to talk to. Same for a walk in Tokyo, in London, in Naples. Walk from the Loop out to Wicker Park, up to Logan Square: you get swathes of residential, highway underpasses, some (usually closed!) businesses. There's a good video rental store, sure, and an very nice Costa Rican restaurant (Irazu) on the way: but the walk itself is a horrible bore.

Second: It makes the city feel dangerous. People, lots of people, are the best imaginable security system. When you walk down a long, dark, empty Chicago street, it feels dangerous. Doesn't mean it IS dangerous. I've never been mugged. But there's this residual fear there, at least for me. There's a lot of cops here, but not a lot of people. But that might be for the better, because-

2. The white people are horrible.

Midwestern-Masters of fake nice, white Chicagoans will smile at you and say have a nice day. But they won't chat you up like in NY, and they won't ever surprise you with anything. Sure, there are some crazy oldtimers around - but most every white person younger than 60 is a dreadful bores. You don't hear interesting things on the street (like in NY.) and you want to strangle most of the people you see -- especially around Lakeview.


In short:

I don't 'not like' Chicago: I believe it to be a miserable place, and I take its defenders to be defenders of mediocrity and misery.

The responses are, naturally, a little annoyed:



condescending. that's the word i was looking for.

You've got to look at this post for what it really is: backhand masturbation for New York.

I knew a chick just like that who lived in BJ while I was there. Couldn't stop going on about how stupid Americans were and how terrible Chicago was compared to NYC.

And all I could think was, "Shut the ever-living fuck up and go back East." I've got your "fake nice" right here, pal.


And it comes out that this was such a pressing moral issue, he had to create an LJ to put all those smug people in their place:

Yes, that's right. I've been following the community for some time now (there's often good info here); and decided that the boosterism needed to be countered, a little.

Not to mention the OP's opinion of himself:

On People: I consider myself endlessly fascinating, and ask all of those around me to be the same. Seriously: I don't demand that people cultivate themselves to become living artworks. That would be nice, but it won't happen until we overcome capitalism. What I would like is if people would be more colorful, more engaging, more willing to talk to strangers. I get that in other cities; not here.

(New Yorkers: you guys talk to strangers? Really?)

Favorite side thread is where it derails into a discussion about New Jersey.

Disclaimer: I am an alumna of the U of C, and enjoyed Chicago a lot.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]puipui
2008-03-08 02:16 am UTC (link)
I have a friend from New York City. Her story is that when she first came to California, people would make polite conversation at the bus stops and so forth and she was so weirded out that she asked her local friends "why do people keep talking to me?"

Hee! I was in Seattle with some friends from New York once, and they were absolutely convinced that everyone in the city was about to knife them and steal all their money, because everyone kept looking at them and talking to them and being suspiciously polite.

I laughed. There may have also been some pointing involved.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-08 02:27 am UTC (link)
God forbid those New Yorkers visit Georgia and meet my relatives. They might actually try to sit them down with some lemonade and ask for their life story.

I remember reading a thing about how Tim Burton was really weirded out when everyone in Alabama was really nice to he and the crew for Big Fish. Like, he thought they were being fake nice, and he had to get used to how that's how everyone just is in the South.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-08 02:48 am UTC (link)
God forbid those New Yorkers visit Georgia and meet my relatives.

Oh! Oh! When we lived out in Druid Hills area of Atlanta, the apartment complex was full of Yankees and Midwesterners. And almost every one of them would say "I don't want to hear your life story" when people would chat them up. And in turn I'd say, "Well, then go back to where you're happy and leave me the fuck alone." And all I'd be saying was "good choice" on something like a shirt or food. I chat up strangers all the time. It's just what I do. Enjoy it, too. Even the crazy-ass people who tell me all about their marriages and I was only giving them directions. It's part of the culture, damn it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-08 02:59 am UTC (link)
I think the best are the old men who tell you about WWII and their purdy little wife and their awesome Beagle all within an expanse of 5 minutes in the check-out line. And then the old Navy veteran bag boys at Publix who demand to take out your cart, because it's what they're supposed to do.

Man, if people don't want to talk, that's cool, but they don't have to be obnoxious about it, really. Like, ok, I don't like when people preach to me about religion or politics (Hellooooo, two things you Do Not Talk About, as pointed out in the Unwritten Southern Etiquette Handbook), but if a person wants to tell my my taste in movies is awesome or my shoes are really cool, it's not that bad.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-08 03:32 am UTC (link)
Ah haha! Publix baggers are better than the cashiers. They're mean fuckers. My godmom does the life story bit all the time. It's just what we do. I tend to talk about the television programs on the magazines if I'm in line. Or dogs. Or cats. Or anything light and fluffy.

For serious. You just don't discuss politics among the Southerners. It gets ugly fast. And religion is twice as foul, twice as quick. But if you're just talking about something simple, then what's the biggie? You know? It's just conversation. We're not going to cook your puppy in human stew here. Our mamas and their mamas and their mama mamas instilled that chatty behavior. And we're damn good at it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


ealusaid
2008-03-08 06:39 am UTC (link)
*amused!* This conversation is really interesting to me since all I know about the South comes from my research project on duelling (since the South had its own code duellos while more northerly regions kept with the European ones). And basically every western duelling culture I've seen says, "Be polite. Be VERY polite. Or be prepared to kill in self-defence."

I guess it hasn't quite gone away yet?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-08 06:55 am UTC (link)
*grins* We Southerners, especially Georgians, are quite odd. It's a win in our favor. We'll be polite to the cockroach we're about to step on. Politeness can be an art form. It can be in all sincerity, or the best backhanded comment you've ever heard. "Bless your/her/his/their heart" is used commonly, though I don't much. It's a nice thing, though. Politeness is generally a must down here. Rudeness doesn't get you much. Still go by the old adage of you catch more flies with honey.

I don't think that's ever going away. Not even Corporate AmericaAtlanta.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-08 11:41 am UTC (link)
Whenever I think of the stereotypical Southern woman, I think of Paula Deen. Because she is so much like my female relatives, it's crazy, down to the floofy white curls that have been maintained with a full can of Aquanet, the painful love of butter, and the way she can insult something in such a nice way. Plus, I love the way she says "cheek-in"

What, you mean even people competing for the same jobs at Turner still maintain politeness? XD

Oh, God. You know what I hate, though? The Saturday Afternoon Walmart-going Rednecks. They're more common in the smaller cities, but good lord, you'd think it was deer-hunting season 24/7 the way they pack the sporting goods section on Saturdays.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-09 04:37 am UTC (link)
*laugh* I tend to think of my godmom, since she was raised around WWII and the Great Depression. So she knows the best ways to attack with a sweet smile.

I wouldn't know about Turner, especially since Time Warner bought them out. I keep wanting to say AOL owns the town and it makes me sad.

Dude, I live in the suburbs now and it's still that bad, but it was worse down in Douglas (not to be confused with Douglasville). I guess that's more important than 'em fansee elektroniks and all. Besides the little woman can go food shopping while he's figuring out the best gun to use up on that there deer stand.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-09 08:58 pm UTC (link)
AOL and Time Warner are no longer involved. And I know Time Warner owns them and half the rest of the country (the other half owned by Viacom), but there's still that honkin' big building of all the Turner tv channels, and well, that's a big building.

Also, I lived in Statesboro for a time, and really, going down to Savannah, going to Walmart, and drinking yourself to your death are really the only things to do in that town. I commiserate.

And don't forget, the women can buy their granbabies clothing at Walmart when their husband is still drooling over the guns, camo, and fishing rods. What's one more Elmo tshirt for the granbaby?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-10 08:38 am UTC (link)
Did AOL and Time Warner divorce and I missed the information? Unlike Ted and Jane, who we all knew the gory details about. You forgot all the ABC owned channels, too. It's split between the three. At least according to Charter. The only thing I'm really grateful that Ted ever did was the Weather Channel. Suddenly Channel 6's weather got accurate.

Dude, you had Savannah. That was a bit away from us (even though we got Savannah tv channels). Douglas was the tri-county seat. Midnight at Walmarts was the *only* thing to do. Our movie theater had two screens. We couldn't even drink ourselves. The only bar was closed, or burnt down, or something.

Now, remember. Walmarts was fancying up. Mostly the granbabies wear garage sale clothes. And it's not Elmo. It's Harley Davidson. Duh. ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-10 08:57 am UTC (link)
I think AOL just got... absorbed, like New Line Cinema. Well, there's also GE/Universal. But I think Time Warner and Viacom are the most massive, so I include them as owning everything.

We had like, two bars. The Woodin Nickel and... something else. If people wanted to dance and drink, it was an hour drive down to Savannah. Mostly everyone just bought liquor at the gas station and drank themselves silly at home. On weekdays. When everyone clearly had to go to class the next day. Our movie theater had 9 screens. Pirates of the Caribbean (the first one) was still packed in that theater two months after it came out. The rest of the movies to come were really bad horror movies, and that's about it. Though the movie theater did have this really cool auditorium which served you food and beer if you wanted it instead of having to go up and get food yourself.

Well, Savannah was an hour drive. Hour and a half if we wanted to get into the suburbs and mall and stuff. The one advantage to living in the middle of nowhere was that our Blockbuster video was awesome. The general manager was this super movie geek and he always had the most movie geek movies in stock instead of just "that movie that came out." For a film geek like myself, that place was heaven.

I was going to add that maybe the granbaby also had a shirt that said, "My other stroller is the General Lee" or "my other stroller is a Harley," but alas, no comment editing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-10 09:09 am UTC (link)
Ohh. Good to know where my 10 bucks is going a month. Really. *laugh* Universal. Oh, right. I keep forgetting it owns Skiffy and NBC. And USA. And every other thing. But I always remember ABC because it owns Lifetime and Fam. *grins*

Hey, at least you had them. Man, Douglas had 10k people, and that includes the junior college population. 441 ran right down the middle of it. It was 30 minutes to the Okefenokee reserve down there. Little over an hour to the Savannah perimeter. We didn't have many people drinking all that much during the week. Mostly because everyone had to be at work by like 5am. And the movie theater changed movies every couple weeks, but it was the WEIRDEST line ups. Like American Sweethearts (Julia Roberts movie) and Jay and Silent Bob. So you went from romantic comedy....to whatever the other was. And the movies were on DVD by the time it hit down there. So sad. And the sad part is that my best friend and I managed to get lost in it. Yeah. Exactly.

Coming home and going back every weekend, our highlights on the way back were counting the dead armadillos. Tifton was about 30 minutes away, maybe less depending on how you get there. I don't even know if they had a video store to be honest. It was that backwater.

I think you missed the busted up truck, too. You know, for all the mud bogging.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2008-03-10 09:25 am UTC (link)
I think Statesboro had about 20,000 and I suspect that was the college students, the college professors, and some rednecks here and there from Metter. We had people drinking during the week because Georgia Southern was, well, the biggest party school in the Southeast. Yeah, probably not the best place for a future filmmaker and socially anxious 19 year old to live. XD The movie theater is like... well, really, all it ever showed were really bad horror films. I had to go back home to Augusta to see any decent movies and down to Savannah to see things like Love Actually and LOTR and Big Fish. (Statesboro did not even have RETURN OF THE KING in theaters until well after New Year's! We're not just talking "random movie they don't expect will do well," we're talking the third LOTR movie!)

Tifton? Isn't that near Nashville (which is where one of my roomies was from) and Valdosta? My roomie would entertain me with stories about how NO ONE did anything on Friday nights but ride around in their trucks. That's... sad.

Well, see, this was Statesboro, and a lot of the old ladies were Savannahians who had moved up to live with their college professor husbands and just stayed forever. So they're more classy than mud-bogging, but not too classy for the General Lee and Harley Davidson.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-11 12:18 am UTC (link)
*snort* We had a lot of factory workers there, so it was mostly the rednecks who drove their tractors in the middle of road. It's like that bad Vince Gill song. I heard that about Ga Southern. I always confused it with GSU, since they have the same initials. I remember wishing it was closer to Savannah, since the amount of schools there were pitiful, back when we were thinking of moving there (now, it's back to staying in Atlanta). Hey, at least you had horror films. And it wasn't the tri-county one. Seriously. There were no other movie theaters in a 30 minute radius.

All I know about Augusta is what I witnessed on the way to Lowcountry SC. I don't think Douglas ever got the big movies, actually. You know, the mega blockbusters.

Tifton is off 75, on the way to Florida. About...an hour or so from Valdosta. It's right before Perry. There was nothing to do down there. It's pathetic. I think UGA has a satellite branch down yonder. Somewhere around Tifton and Douglas.

Oh, see. You had the higher up classier people. But hell, there was mud bogging in high school, and I'm 30 minutes outside Atlanta. And the General Lee is a Georgia landmark. Duh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sadisticferret
2008-03-10 06:46 pm UTC (link)
Hey now, don't be hating on garage sales. You can get some awesome shit at those things. Where else can you get a pair of strappy sandals, a G1 My Little Pony and a dachshund* all for $12.50?

*Trufax.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-11 12:23 am UTC (link)
*laugh* No, no. We aren't exactly. But have you ever been to a Saturday garage sale down in South Georgia? It's an....experience. Especially since I did see someone make a flowerbed out of an old toilet. Next to a tire one in one of those little bunny looking wire fences.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sadisticferret
2008-03-11 01:16 am UTC (link)
Y'know, If I didn't know any better I'd think you were describing northwest Florida. ~g~

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2008-03-11 01:25 am UTC (link)
*laugh* Y'all got the big ole water towers, too? When I was down there, the tri-county hospital had two floors. Which is just sad.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rosalita
2008-03-08 05:05 pm UTC (link)
I had some old man show me his battle scar in the parking lot of a grocery store once. He saw my National Guard license plate (my ex was in the NG) and struck up a conversation with me about the army, which led to his hiking up his pant leg to show me where the shrapnel hit him. Ya gotta love the South.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


nam_jai
2008-03-08 02:36 am UTC (link)
Heh. I'm reminded of a time I met some tourists passing through Thailand and they told me about how they had been warned by their guidebook not to take any food or drink offered because you might be drugged and robbed.

To which I explained that you could end up thinking every single Thai person was out to drug and rob you, because Thais have strong sense of hospitality and they'll offer you food and drink on the slightest pretense.

I really should have found out what that guidebook was, so I could boycott it while pointing and laughing publicly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zinkchan
2008-03-08 07:24 am UTC (link)
A friend of mine is from Washington D.C and she said she was so confused when she moved out to Olympia to go to school because people would come up to her and just start talking to her on the bus.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosalita
2008-03-08 05:09 pm UTC (link)
I live in Richmond, VA, which is about 100 miles from DC. What a difference 100 miles makes! The first time I was up there and walking around the non-touristy parts of the city, I was shocked when people didn't answer me when I said hello! In Richmond, if you pass someone on the sidewalk, you say hello or at least nod!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Read comments) -

 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map