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Little Valkyrie ([info]waltraute) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2008-03-07 19:06:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Chicago: not New York, dammit
The LJ community [info]uchicago is, well, a community populated by students and alumni of the University of Chicago, a fine institution on the South Side of the city. Normal discussion includes questions about professors, where to get an apartment, and the general whining all students always engage in about their school.

Enter [info]gracchi, who has some misconceptions about the city itself to correct:

First: It makes the city boring to walk around. Walk from, say, East Harlem straight down into UES, down into midtown, down into the East Village there's always something to see, people to talk to. Same for a walk in Tokyo, in London, in Naples. Walk from the Loop out to Wicker Park, up to Logan Square: you get swathes of residential, highway underpasses, some (usually closed!) businesses. There's a good video rental store, sure, and an very nice Costa Rican restaurant (Irazu) on the way: but the walk itself is a horrible bore.

Second: It makes the city feel dangerous. People, lots of people, are the best imaginable security system. When you walk down a long, dark, empty Chicago street, it feels dangerous. Doesn't mean it IS dangerous. I've never been mugged. But there's this residual fear there, at least for me. There's a lot of cops here, but not a lot of people. But that might be for the better, because-

2. The white people are horrible.

Midwestern-Masters of fake nice, white Chicagoans will smile at you and say have a nice day. But they won't chat you up like in NY, and they won't ever surprise you with anything. Sure, there are some crazy oldtimers around - but most every white person younger than 60 is a dreadful bores. You don't hear interesting things on the street (like in NY.) and you want to strangle most of the people you see -- especially around Lakeview.


In short:

I don't 'not like' Chicago: I believe it to be a miserable place, and I take its defenders to be defenders of mediocrity and misery.

The responses are, naturally, a little annoyed:



condescending. that's the word i was looking for.

You've got to look at this post for what it really is: backhand masturbation for New York.

I knew a chick just like that who lived in BJ while I was there. Couldn't stop going on about how stupid Americans were and how terrible Chicago was compared to NYC.

And all I could think was, "Shut the ever-living fuck up and go back East." I've got your "fake nice" right here, pal.


And it comes out that this was such a pressing moral issue, he had to create an LJ to put all those smug people in their place:

Yes, that's right. I've been following the community for some time now (there's often good info here); and decided that the boosterism needed to be countered, a little.

Not to mention the OP's opinion of himself:

On People: I consider myself endlessly fascinating, and ask all of those around me to be the same. Seriously: I don't demand that people cultivate themselves to become living artworks. That would be nice, but it won't happen until we overcome capitalism. What I would like is if people would be more colorful, more engaging, more willing to talk to strangers. I get that in other cities; not here.

(New Yorkers: you guys talk to strangers? Really?)

Favorite side thread is where it derails into a discussion about New Jersey.

Disclaimer: I am an alumna of the U of C, and enjoyed Chicago a lot.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 02:31 am UTC (link)
Masters of fake nice, white Chicagoans will smile at you and say have a nice day. But they won't chat you up like in NY, and they won't ever surprise you with anything.
I agree. This is just such a pity. Next time I see [info]gracci around town I will make a concerted effort to surprise s/h/it, to remedy the situation, but since mugging's apparently a no-no (and NEVER HAPPENS IN NEW YORK, CITY OF CITIES), I'll have to be creative. Which Field Museum exhibit do you think it would be most surprising to wake up to find oneself part of? I always kind of thought the Tsavo exhibit needed something more, but the big pyramid's kind of a classic.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 02:33 am UTC (link)
I was thinking more along the lines of "stripping nude and leaving out on the Midway", but I like how you think, too!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 02:33 am UTC (link)
I just really love the Field Museum. It's done so much for me, and I want to give back.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 02:41 am UTC (link)
As a tangent, Jim Butcher's Dresden Files books aren't always so good with the Chicago geography (but he's gotten a lot better, and I find them a compelling read anyways), but there's a showdown in the Field Museum, involving Sue, in one of them, and this made me think of that. *recommends*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 02:49 am UTC (link)
...SRSLY? I was writing a superhero!NaNovel involving a showdown involving Sue. And now I can't finish writing that without this niggling at me, but that's okay, because this may be the thing that actually makes me read that series. (I, um. Never hear anything about it other than a vague, unspecified "they're good!" so of course I assume they're terrible and get them mixed up with other things.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 02:52 am UTC (link)
The good thing about reading them now is that they really do pick up steam after the first few, and plot hints/threads given in even the first one are still coming into play--he knows how to work the structure of a plot and write a book that moves at a good clip, and make you go "Wait, I remember that from two books ago...".

It's in Dead Beat, which is #7, and by which everything is going full steam.

You'll just have to cringe through some of the Chicago geography errors (LOL WE ALL *WISH* THE U OF C WAS IN LINCOLN PARK...)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 03:03 am UTC (link)
...HAHAHA WTF. That would have made the time I got lost on the El at 1 AM while trying to get back to the campus a lot less harrowing.

(...amusingly, the guy in charge of summer studies and I had a Very Serious Talk in which he was actually Midwestern fake-nice. I kept explaining to him that I had been crowded out of the car with the other students and then they had stopped announcing stops, so I couldn't figure out where to get off, and he proceeded to insist that Rules Were Rules and it was actually still my fault I'd missed curfew even though it had been completely impossible not to. Then he insisted that what I needed to do was read Harry Potter, since everyone knows that series teaches you that you must always obey the rules, always, even if they make no sense, because otherwise you get in trouble. It was about two weeks after OotP came out, and I'm not sure if he just hadn't read it yet or if he thought Umbridge was one of the good guys, but I wisely decided not to rec him any fic.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 03:05 am UTC (link)
...my totally unrelated teal deer, let me show you it!

Er. So have some boobies instead.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 03:06 am UTC (link)
No, no, being lost on the Red Line (I assume?) at 1 AM would suck epically...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaesa, 2008-03-08 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2008-03-08 11:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2008-03-08 10:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2008-03-09 08:18 pm UTC

[info]threegoldfish
2008-03-08 03:29 am UTC (link)
(LOL WE ALL *WISH* THE U OF C WAS IN LINCOLN PARK...)

Is it close though? Because I swear it was close to the place a friend of a friend lived who was attending the seminary/theological school attached to U of C. I saw the parrots!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 03:32 am UTC (link)
No, it's on the North Side (not the Far North, but up there), and Hyde Park is down on 50th-60th on the South Side.

;_;

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]threegoldfish
2008-03-08 03:35 am UTC (link)
Too many parks. I get them confused.

Of course, I also have the tourist version of Chicago geography which is about enough highway to make it from Michigan around the lake to the Museum Campus and then how to get from my boyfriend's family's place out in Western Springs into the city.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]memoriamvictus
2008-03-08 05:52 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I could swallow the Walmart in Lincoln Park, but the miles and miles of empty parking lot surrounding Wrigley Field? C'mon, dude!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]waltraute
2008-03-08 05:58 am UTC (link)
Or the supposed warehouses on that part of the South Side, or...

But he really has gotten better, and the rest is more than good enough to keep me wanting more.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]memoriamvictus, 2008-03-08 09:15 am UTC

[info]vito_excalibur
2008-03-09 07:34 pm UTC (link)
Ok I just scared my boyfriend laughing so hard. I might have to pick up some of these just to point & laugh.

(Who gets Chicago right? Sara Paretsky gets Chicago right! Yaaaay!)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cinnamonical
2008-03-08 02:54 am UTC (link)
I read that book! I squee'd so hard at that part, because dude, rampaging!zombie!Sue, FUCKING ROYAL. (highlight for possible spoilers)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]threegoldfish
2008-03-08 03:28 am UTC (link)
I was in the Field this last weekend and spent about five minutes going Zombie dinosaur!! ZOMBIE DINOSAUR!!!!!

So much love.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dark_puck
2008-03-08 05:16 am UTC (link)
FUCK YEAH.

I used that very point to draw quite a few people to the series, because DUDE. SO AWESOME.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2008-03-08 06:46 am UTC (link)
I've only visited the Field Museum once, but I definitely felt a sense of glee when I got to that portion in the book. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2008-03-08 06:48 am UTC (link)
I always kind of thought the Tsavo exhibit needed something more

I. Love. You.

Especially since I've just recently been thinking about my visit to that exhibit, what with having just seen The Ghost and the Darkness.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-08 07:24 am UTC (link)
I haven't seen that, but it was on my mind because I'd just read Paradigm Shift.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]wtf
2008-03-09 05:18 pm UTC (link)
The big pyramid is already pretty crowded, though. How about plastered naked to one of the windows in the scientist zoo?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-09 06:59 pm UTC (link)
Well, I wouldn't want to disturb the scientists.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rganymede
2008-03-10 07:09 pm UTC (link)
Masters of fake nice, white Chicagoans will smile at you and say have a nice day. But they won't chat you up like in NY, and they won't ever surprise you with anything.

Yeah, I've lived in Chicago all my life and I have no idea where this person is getting that from. I have a couple of theories though. The first is that they've been talking to cashiers/customer service people, who have to say stuff like that even if they don't mean it (which they wouldn't, if this person is as charming in that situation as in this one...)

The other is that they're going up to random people on the street and talking to them, thereby triggering a "get away from the crazy person as quickly as possible without pissing them off" response. Something like "Oh, I'm sorry, I really don't know about anything like that and I have to go now, but have a nice day!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kaesa
2008-03-10 09:03 pm UTC (link)
...ooh, you know, I hadn't even thought of that second one. Somehow my mother has this ability to talk to random Chicagoans without triggering that response. Maybe it's because she's actually from Pittsburgh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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