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black_spot (black_spot) wrote in otf_wank,
@ 2008-04-28 20:24:00

Current mood:

*sporfle!*

Animation is serious bizness
Please remember that these are grown men, some are old enough to your father and should be shown respect due to their years of experience and wisdom.

Over on the AWN forums Mr Mankind starts by posing a controversial question and softening the impact with his post Is 2D animation basically dead?.

It all starts nice and polite on the first page (I’m in there with my 2 cents). The discussion gets interesting and a good debate gets going on page 2.

On page 3 it gets serious. Mr Mankind is bemused by the reaction to his thoughts.

DrSpectre start to show his angst. As far as I'm concerned, 2D is a back-stabbing industry where ass-kissing skills combined with the ability to produce predictably mediocre results on a deadline will get you "in". Not a happy bunny.

We have a possible flounce.

Ken needing lip gloss was spotted here.

Mr Mankind posts some more cartoons that weren’t his. It’s total WWIII on page 6 before the moderator comes in and locks the post for further posting.

It’s short and so sweet.

Never mind – we have The Poll.

I just hope I don’t get banned for posting this.

(Post a new comment)

chibikaijuu
2008-04-28 09:03 pm UTC (link)

That is kind of hilariously awesome. I like how quite a few of them apparently learned how to draw but never how to write properly.

(Also, 2D ANIMATION GOD YES MOAR PLZ. Same for 3D, though I'd really like the shitty 3D to DIAF. I'm of the opinion that the presentation is as much a part of the story as the dialogue or plot, and the animation style has to fit the film - which is why I can't imagine most of my favorite 2D films as 3D, or vice-versa.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	black_spot 2008-04-28 09:26 pm UTC (link)
	You can only write as good as the number of pool balls you can fit into your mouth at one time. which is why I can't imagine most of my favorite 2D films as 3D, or vice-versa.) I’m so with you there. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	solesakuma 2008-04-28 09:47 pm UTC (link)
	which is why I can't imagine most of my favorite 2D films as 3D Word. IF ONLY ANIMATION STUDIOS LEARNED THIS! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	vzg 2008-04-29 02:27 am UTC (link)
	God yes. Finding Nemo = awesome 3D. Final Fantasy = awesome 3D. Most other 3D movies = shitty or mediocre 3D that probably would've been better off in 2D (or, should they choose the other way, live action). And it's also not a substitute for claymation. >.> Flushed Away, I'm looking at you. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mcity, 2008-04-29 04:41 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-29 04:53 am UTC

mcity, 2008-04-29 04:55 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-29 05:55 am UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2008-04-29 09:00 pm UTC

vzg, 2008-04-29 10:39 pm UTC

mcity, 2008-04-30 12:35 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-30 02:00 am UTC

mcity, 2008-04-30 02:07 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-30 02:44 am UTC

mcity, 2008-04-30 12:33 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-30 02:01 am UTC

mcity, 2008-04-30 02:07 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-30 02:43 am UTC

mcity, 2008-04-30 02:46 am UTC

vzg, 2008-04-30 05:21 am UTC

	luthe 2008-04-28 09:12 pm UTC (link)
	Is this a good place for my 'ZOMG Clone Wars movie' squee? Because George Lucas is totes giving me the best birthday present EVAH. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	black_spot 2008-04-28 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	Not at AWN. It’s terrible serious about animation. (http://forums.toonzone.net/index.php might be better), but here you can squee as much as you like. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	demonbean 2008-04-28 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	...the team did have the luxery of floating for a long period, unproductive and still able to pay the rent. A luxery most people in the industry will never have. Luxury. LUXURY! With two of that "u" letter! flails Yeah ... that's as far as I got ... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	caffeine_fairy 2008-04-28 11:35 pm UTC (link)
	You had a "u"? Luxery. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

beachlass, 2008-04-29 12:24 am UTC

	mael 2008-04-28 09:51 pm UTC (link)
	I'm... ridiculously partial. I guess. Because there's that one scene in Spirited Away in which Miyazaki is all, look, CGI, ain't it cool! and I just want it to go die in a fire. I like my animation strictly 2D, preferably awesome. is old skool (Reply to this)(Thread)

	solesakuma 2008-04-28 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, lately, many non-animation geek people have expressed the same feeling. XDDDD A lot of my friends and family are genuinely happy when I tell them that Disney is doing 2D again. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	caffeine_fairy 2008-04-28 11:35 pm UTC (link)
	I confess to being not animation savvy. Which scene? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	shaysdays 2008-04-29 12:18 am UTC (link)
	See, I have the same thing with the animated scene in Tank Girl. Love the animation, think it's an awesome idea, but... it just didn't work. Like, at all. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

pesky, 2008-04-29 04:11 pm UTC

nekoama
2008-04-29 01:15 am UTC (link)

CG/2D blends can work, if they don't do the whole LOOK CG YAY. I think Treasure Planet pulled it off beautifully with Silver (not so much with the backgrounds though)
I used to be all '2D is bestest, down with CG' over my animation, and while I prefer working on 2D myself, now whatever I watch doesn't bother me as long as it's done nicely. Because bad animation hurts everybody.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

phosfate, 2008-04-29 08:50 pm UTC

blackjackrocket
2008-04-29 07:19 am UTC (link)

Because there's that one scene in Spirited Away in which Miyazaki is all, look, CGI, ain't it cool! and I just want it to go die in a fire.

The Pokemon movies are FULL of that. With some of them (well, I know the first one anyway) the directors went back and reedited them to forcefeed CGI. I mean some of them are all right (the airship in the second movie really couldn't be anything BUT CGI), but then you have things like the infamous "plastic branch" in movie 4...and that's how most of them play out, like totally unnecessary.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

shaysdays, 2008-04-30 05:16 am UTC

blackjackrocket, 2008-04-30 05:22 am UTC

	tree 2008-04-29 12:56 am UTC (link)
	2D all the way! waves old skool flag (Reply to this)

nekoama
2008-04-29 01:26 am UTC (link)

I should sign up that forum. I never get in any good srs bzns animation arguments.
On the actual argument, I've only been in the industry two years now, and 2D's far from dead. The only thing keeping 2D 'down' is budget - it's much cheaper to do computer based symbol/Flash cartoons, or 3D ones than traditional animation. But I don't even know how to start a 3D animation program and I'm doing fine for myself. And visually, CG's not 'new and shiny' anymore, so it's not being pumped out insanely to capitalize on it.
2D may not be at the top of the game anymore, but it'll never die. As long as animation as a medium exists, 2D animation will exist.

Plus, y'know, the American animation market isn't the only one out there.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	black_spot 2008-04-29 06:18 pm UTC (link)
	You should. It’s quite interesting most of the time. www.animationforum.net is very nice, where everyone is lovely. Have you tried Blender? I don’t have the time to really work at it yet because I’m involved in a 2D project at the moment. You’re right about the US – there’s Hayao Miyazaki's Ponyo on a Cliff about to be released this year. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

nekoama, 2008-04-29 07:08 pm UTC

rose_tyler
2008-04-29 03:33 am UTC (link)

Meh, I don't care what kind of animation it is as long as it's of good quality and the story is awesome.

Unfortunately 90% of CGI, even feature animation CGI, looks cheap. Then again, a lot of 2D non-Disney flicks from the nineties looked super cheap as well. It's the same thing now, but with Pixar being the "Disney" of the time.

I'm glad to see Disney 2d returning mostly because it means they might go back to more traditional storytelling more than anything (instead of like... Chicken Little), and because I know it will look beautiful.

But as excited as I am to see 2d return (it's far from dead), I haven't been starving for good animation without it. My most unpopular fandom opinion would be that Pixar makes better films than Disney feature animation ever did (despite the fact that I grew up with Disney and love them to bits).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

chibikaijuu
2008-04-29 05:20 am UTC (link)

Pixar is so reliably brilliant, but they haven't been The Big Studio long enough for me to judge them against Disney's feature animation department, which had brilliant periods and so-so periods (and a few films that were utter crap *cough*BlackCauldron*cough*). Luckily I was the right age for their 1988-98 brilliant streak.

Other CGI bothers me - even when it's well done, it's stiff, or the palettes are weird, or the textures are off. But Pixar? Pixar is fucking amazing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	tintagel 2008-04-29 05:37 pm UTC (link)
	2D Disney is still the best comfort animation. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rose_tyler, 2008-04-29 06:34 pm UTC

	mcity 2008-04-29 04:38 am UTC (link)
	"Is 2D animation basically dead?." looks at Naruto Shippuden, TTGL, Bleach, Foster's, Ben 10: Alien Force, Spectacular Spider-Man Um, no. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	shaysdays 2008-04-29 06:28 am UTC (link)
	No idea, No idea unless I'm not connecting the letters, No idea, Yaaaay, it's okay but formulaic, wasn't that on when I was little? Wait, no- crap, that's the one that thinks everyone weights 104 pounds and has super-long arms, isn't it? (Reply to this)(Parent)

nekoama, 2008-04-29 07:06 pm UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2008-04-29 09:04 pm UTC

nekoama, 2008-04-29 09:14 pm UTC

	blackjackrocket 2008-04-29 07:17 am UTC (link)
	2D is awesome. 3D can be awesome, but sadly most people use it now simply because it's still novel to do so. If they were used based on which would suit the film better, that would be one thing, but CGI's still in the "ooh shiny" phase and sadly gets overused because it's "kewl". (Reply to this)(Thread)

kosaginolegion, 2008-04-29 03:06 pm UTC

viralmemory
2008-04-30 09:46 am UTC (link)

One has to wonder, how many times have they had a conversation like this:

Troll: All CG sucks because I hate (and/or can't do) 3D. Ink and paint 4Evar! [Or other fallacious argument.]

Other Posters: Actually, there's lots of CG that works with 2D styles. CG!=3D only. Ink/paint = stylus/color palette is all. [And similar actual discussion]

Troll: I said 3D, DUH. STFU.

Wise poster: Assumption based on ignorance huh? Good luck with that. BTW, Don't get pissy with me.

Whippersnapper: You're ESTABLISHMENT, aren't you?! Keeping the working man down! Also, your experience isn't valid because it isn't what happened to me.

Whole board: Troll harder plz.

Troll: But I've just insulted everything you've spent your lives on! MY OPINION MATTERS DAMMIT!

Whole board: But it's not the question originally raised so we're ignoring you/destroying your arguments. [Insert board's equivalent of 'tits or GTFO']

Troll: NO U!

Whole board: Are you still here?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

black_spot, 2008-04-30 05:56 pm UTC

	ravenousbunny 2008-05-01 09:13 am UTC (link)
	For once, my animation dorkiness gets to shine! (With a dash of animation snobbishness.) I prefer 2D animation most of the time. There have only been a few instances where I've preferred 3D. I have nothing against it. I just think it's overused to hell and back. Some movies/stories should be told in 3D, while others need to be 2D. This is my two cents. (Reply to this)

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