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Dan Fogelberg's (llama_treats) wrote in otf_wank,
@ 2009-01-28 17:51:00

Entry tags:

food, it is not a waste of butter and sugar, let them eat cake, microwave of the night

Alton Brown does what?!?!?
angieobsessed would like us all to know that microwaving butter in order to melt it is a crime against humanity.

This has been a public service announcement.

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

	kadath 2009-01-29 12:40 am UTC (link)
	Could somebody translate the German? I want to know what her "perfectly scientific" reason is! Bernie? 'Mote? (Reply to this)(Thread)

calatha
2009-01-29 12:45 am UTC (link)

I put it through Babel Fish. First paragraph-

'Now, or also warm up in the microwave lead to breaking these fatty acid chains and destroy the vitamins as well as they heat up also water withdraw. The structures, if, lose its Cremigkeit not visibly change the consistency if struck and the Dessert, which is to be prepared, will as it with butter, which stand at ambient temperature were left, becomes not as flaumig.'

Okay then.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	watersword 2009-01-30 09:34 pm UTC (link)
	Vitamins? In butter? ...There are vitamins in butter? MY WORLDVIEW, SHE IS SHATTERED. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pantsgolem 2009-01-29 12:49 am UTC (link)
	http://community.livejournal.com/sf_drama/1907966.html?thread=241929726#t241929726 Metal, in MY microwave? It's more likely than you think! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kadath 2009-01-29 12:51 am UTC (link)
	Locked entry. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

pantsgolem
2009-01-29 12:54 am UTC (link)

Oh, durr, sorry. Here's what that comment says:

Okay, so -

Butter is a dairy item, full of water, essential fatty acids, vitamins. Heating (!) such a concoction destroys the fatty acids by braking up the chains, evaporates the water and kills the vitamins. Thus, you're not getting the creamy consistency when you whip butter as you'd do when you soften butter ~~naturally~~.

Fine.

Then, ladies and gentlemen, she suggests PUTTING A METAL BOWL IN YOUR MICROWAVE to test and see just how hot stuff may get in there. Yeah...

Somewhere along the lines, she confused MELTING THE SHIT OUT OF THE BUTTER with slightly softening it.

BRB checking just how hot a metal bowl can get in the microwave.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kadath 2009-01-29 12:57 am UTC (link)
	Thanks, but is sf_drama open membership? If not, it's not kosher to be reproducing the comment. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

pantsgolem, 2009-01-29 01:00 am UTC

kadath, 2009-01-29 01:02 am UTC

kadath
2009-01-29 01:34 am UTC (link)

Then, ladies and gentlemen, she suggests PUTTING A METAL BOWL IN YOUR MICROWAVE to test and see just how hot stuff may get in there. Yeah...

Oh, by the way, you can put a metal bowl in the microwave safely, as long as it's perfectly smooth. There won't be a plasma discharge unless there are two sharp edges or points between which the arc can form. So, the tines of a fork will arc, or gilt decorations on plates, but smooth bowl won't.

Of course, an empty metal bowl won't get hot in a microwave oven, either, since metal reflects microwaves, but I don't see why we should let science interfere with our half-assed culinary advice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

caffeine_fairy, 2009-01-29 01:13 pm UTC

kadath, 2009-01-29 04:55 pm UTC

my thoughts on microwaving ice cream -

snarkhunter, 2009-01-29 09:03 pm UTC

Re: my thoughts on microwaving ice cream -

kadath, 2009-01-29 09:45 pm UTC

sionja, 2009-01-29 01:52 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-29 05:19 pm UTC

bitca, 2009-01-29 06:18 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-29 06:22 pm UTC

risha, 2009-01-30 04:28 am UTC

lirazel, 2009-01-30 07:39 pm UTC

	risha 2009-01-29 04:28 am UTC (link)
	A Kit Kat still in its metallic inner wrapper will catch fire. This has nothing to do with her theory/experiment - it's just a PSA. (The microwave in question survived, by the way.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rhrsoulmates, 2009-01-29 05:01 am UTC

ninwhore, 2009-01-29 05:23 am UTC

browncoat_gater, 2009-01-29 05:32 am UTC

catremistrae, 2009-01-29 05:35 am UTC

crazyace86, 2009-01-29 04:37 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-29 05:22 pm UTC

lirazel, 2009-01-30 07:46 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-30 08:05 pm UTC

lirazel, 2009-01-30 08:11 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-30 08:26 pm UTC

lirazel, 2009-01-30 09:09 pm UTC

chibikaijuu, 2009-01-30 01:34 am UTC

cazrolime, 2009-01-29 05:22 pm UTC

risha, 2009-01-29 06:01 pm UTC

risha, 2009-01-29 06:05 pm UTC

mary_mac, 2009-01-30 11:28 pm UTC

mary_mac, 2009-01-30 11:25 pm UTC

	vzg 2009-01-29 12:44 pm UTC (link)
	Wait... so is she actually discussing the nutritional value of butter? Like, if you microwave it, it's suddenly not healthy enough? It's butter. :/ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kookaburra, 2009-01-29 12:54 pm UTC

vzg, 2009-01-29 01:15 pm UTC

kookaburra, 2009-01-29 01:25 pm UTC

vzg, 2009-01-29 01:41 pm UTC

panthea, 2009-01-30 02:48 am UTC

panthea, 2009-01-30 02:48 am UTC

kookaburra, 2009-01-30 04:43 pm UTC

	brennalarose 2009-01-29 01:53 pm UTC (link)
	She suggested putting...facepalm Good god, people, do I need to bring back the Pimp Stick of Clue? hands it off to pantsgolem Since you can get into the post, you do it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

paladin
2009-01-29 12:57 am UTC (link)

My German is pretty rusty, but she appears to be saying that, at temperatures higher than body temp, the fats in butter will break down and react with the vitamins to make them nutritionally worthless; and that any butter thus treated will be indistinguishable from water with fat mixed in. Therefore, one should always let butter warm more slowly at room temp. She wants to show us links that would back her up on this, but can't find any right now.

Let's run this through online translation software and see how I did!

"Butter is, as we know an animal product, which consists mainly of saturated, but also unsaturated fatty acids and water. Similarly, numerous vitamins and many trace elements. Now, heat or heat in the microwave leads to breakage of these fatty acid chains and destroy the vitamins and they also cut water. Though this change in structure isn't visible, the consistency loses its creaminess when beaten and the dessert, isn't as fluffy as it would be if prepared with room temperature butter. I wanted an image search, but unfortunately can't currently find one. The temperature ((presumably in a microwave)) may not seem high, but put a metal bowl inside ((!!!)) and you won't be able to remove it without a cloth or a glove. Even brief warming leads to severe dehydration and chain break, changes or the destruction of enzymes and vitamins. Now given that the melting point of butter is lower than the body temperature of a human being, you can think of the rest."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kadath 2009-01-29 01:01 am UTC (link)
	she appears to be saying that, at temperatures higher than body temp, the fats in butter will break down and react with the vitamins to make them nutritionally worthless I'm a bit curious as to her secret method of baking things without bringing them above body temperature. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	paladin 2009-01-29 01:05 am UTC (link)
	You laugh now, but her cookies have won the coveted Ptomaine Trophy two years running. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kadath 2009-01-29 01:16 am UTC (link)
	Truth be told, I had not considered the leavening properties of putrefaction. Mme is truly a genius for all seasons. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ashenmote
2009-01-29 01:48 am UTC (link)

It is a German thing to be suspicious of your microwave. Microwaves belong into the world of hadron colliders and adamantium skeletons, not into kitchens. We don't extend the same suspicions to the oven and other kitchen appliances we already had before we heard of microwaves. Bringing things over body temperature will not change their molecular chains if you do it in a way that feels old-fashioned and familiar to you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dragonfangirl 2009-01-29 01:56 am UTC (link)
	Sort of like how South Koreans are immensely suspicious of electrical fans. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ashenmote, 2009-01-29 02:14 am UTC

kadath, 2009-01-29 02:24 am UTC

ashenmote, 2009-01-29 03:06 am UTC

kadath, 2009-01-29 03:08 am UTC

ashenmote, 2009-01-29 03:23 am UTC

rachelmap, 2009-01-29 07:31 am UTC

risha, 2009-01-29 07:55 am UTC

rachelmap, 2009-01-29 08:44 am UTC

dragonfangirl, 2009-01-29 08:46 am UTC

rachelmap, 2009-01-29 08:59 am UTC

phosfate, 2009-01-29 03:52 pm UTC

issendai, 2009-01-29 05:29 pm UTC

	ellensmithee 2009-01-29 08:59 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for point this out. I (an American who's lived in Germany for over 20 years) didn't think I could get away with it without being accused of German bashing. ;-) Some Germans are very suspicious about modern technology and find pseudoscientific reasons to back themselves up. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ashenmote, 2009-01-29 09:57 am UTC

chikane, 2009-01-30 11:09 am UTC

deviantdesade, 2009-01-30 06:15 pm UTC

ellensmithee, 2009-01-31 12:08 pm UTC

pantsgolem
2009-01-29 01:49 am UTC (link)

Here's my attempt at a full translation:

Butter is, as we already know, an animal product that is made of mainly¹ saturated, but also unsaturated fatty acids and water, as well as many vitamins and minerals.

So, heating² it in the microwave causes these fatty acids to break up and destroys the vitamins, and also removes water. The structure may not visibly change, but it loses its creamy consistency when you beat it, and your dessert won't be as fluffy as if you had used butter that had been left to warm to room temperature.

I'd like to show you a picture³, but unfortunately I can't find any right now.

The temperature may not seem that high, but put in a metal bowl⁴ by itself, and you won't be able to take it out without a cloth or glove to help you. Even after a short time warming, you've already caused too much dehydration, breakup of the polymer chains, modification of the enzymes, and destruction of the vitamins. So given that the melting temperature of butter is less than body temperature, you can figure out the rest for yourself⁵.

1: Looks like she left out the "t" in "hauptsächlich" so that part may trip up translation software.
2: She uses two words, "erhitzen" and "erwärmen", which both essenitally mean "to warm". I am unsure of the nuances between them.
3:

paladin interpreted "Bild" as "link", which makes more sense, but I'm not familiar with its use as such. Of course, I know basically nothing about Internet terminology in German.
4: NONONONONONONONONONONO
5: No you can't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pantsgolem 2009-01-29 01:53 am UTC (link)
	Re: 3, maybe she means a diagram, like of the molecules being pwned by the microwave or something. (Reply to this)(Parent)

kadath
2009-01-29 02:34 am UTC (link)

So, heating it in the microwave causes these fatty acids to break up and destroys the vitamins, and also removes water.

...

Even after a short time warming, you've already caused too much dehydration, breakup of the polymer chains, modification of the enzymes, and destruction of the vitamins.

1. No it fucking doesn't.

2. NO IT FUCKING DOESN'T!

I still want to know what she thinks happens in the goddamn conventional oven.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dawnswalker 2009-01-29 03:15 am UTC (link)
	The oven is filled with helpful kitchen elves, who use alchemy to transform butter into delicious treats. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

tehrin, 2009-01-29 05:03 am UTC

rosehiptea, 2009-01-29 05:40 am UTC

insanityprelude, 2009-01-30 03:25 am UTC

paladin
2009-01-29 03:18 am UTC (link)

In conventional ovens, Maxwell's Demon gently raises the temperature of whatever it is you're baking while holding together the molecular formulas of fats and carbohydrates, as well as the tertiary structures of enzymes and other proteins, with it's tiny tiny claws. This raises the temperature of the system without actually increasing molecular vibrations or altering it in any way. Ovens: they're where the magic happens!

Also, "Bild" is picture, but that made no damn sense to me, so I translated it as link. Maybe she was going to image search ruined pastries, or look for some diagram explaining how microwaves magically denature butter? I've got nothing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2009-01-29 05:00 am UTC (link)
	All microwaves do is speed up the vibration of water molecules to cook food. True, it can alter the tastes of some foods but it's not like it causes such a drastic change. I still want to know what she thinks happens in the goddamn conventional oven. The Magic of Disney (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kadath, 2009-01-29 05:16 am UTC

(no subject) - ariadne484, 2009-01-29 06:08 am UTC

kadath, 2009-01-29 06:26 pm UTC

chibikaijuu, 2009-01-30 01:43 am UTC

	ashenmote 2009-01-29 03:43 am UTC (link)
	Awesome translation, thanks. 'erhitzen' is stronger than 'erwärmen', some actual cooking is implied and you can expect to burn your fingers on the result. With 'erwärmen', that is not mandatory. However, and that's why she mentions both, the dreaded microwave entropy is unleashed any time you turn your infernal machine on. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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