Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area

Tiara [my demand] (mydemand) wrote in otf_wank,
@ 2009-08-03 19:06:00

Entry tags:

otf_wank's thoughts on weight, stop sharing your thoughts

HOW DARE YOU CALL ME FAT
Mars from Chicken Dinner Candybar does her regular Fat Love Friday and includes Marie from Agent Lover.

Marie is put off by her inclusion on a "fat" list and tells Mars so.

Mars offers to take it down. Marie refuses. Instead, she proclaims on her blog, "oh haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale no!

Chaos ensues in the comments about fatphobia, body acceptance, fashion sense (or the lack thereof), and kissing-up commentors.

Is Marie brave or is she overreacting?

(I'm in the comments and I know Natalie [the 'overreacting' link], so I am slightly involved in the wank aftermath. It's pretty obvious which side i'm on.)

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 04:38 pm UTC (link)

Well, if it helps any, I can see what you meant. A lot of the responses to you are the stuff my doctor bitch-slapped out of me years ago.

The same old false dichotomies. "I can't lose weight fast, so I may as well not try at all." "Eek, eek, when you say people can lose weight you are telling them they have to be model-anorexic-thin." "I don't have time to work out two hours a day then take a ten mile hike, so it's useless to walk a tenth of a mile to my friend's house instead of drive."

Real change requires exactly that - change. People are right, starving yourself for a couple of months won't do any good. But then they turn it around as an excuse to not make longterm changes in their eating and activity levels, and to accept that real weigh loss takes years, not weeks. And that all works well and good until you have a health crisis, or start to get older, or, like me, both.

Then you find out that your heart doesn't give a crap about your body image, and your lungs don't care at all about your sense of self worth. And your pancreas just laughs at your acceptance of yourself the way you are. Oh, and your hips, knees and ankles? They don't give a flying fuck about you at all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 05:17 pm UTC (link)

The same old false dichotomies. "I can't lose weight fast, so I may as well not try at all." "Eek, eek, when you say people can lose weight you are telling them they have to be model-anorexic-thin." "I don't have time to work out two hours a day then take a ten mile hike, so it's useless to walk a tenth of a mile to my friend's house instead of drive."

Actually, I haven't seen anyone say that in these comments. I think you're projecting a little.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... silrana 2009-08-04 05:43 pm UTC (link)
	Considering some of the responses to my other post... no, don't think so. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... risha 2009-08-04 05:45 pm UTC (link)
	Being told that you're wrong about something != making false statements about what people have said. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

sneer
2009-08-04 05:44 pm UTC (link)

So in your oh-so-educated opinion: are those of us who do make long-term changes, eat healthy food, and work out five days a week (and I'm not talking picking up a 1-pound dumbbell two or three times and then hitting the shower, I'm talking 30-minute run/1-hour bike ride/other miscellaneous shit that actually works the muscles and revs up the heart rate) and still hovering at a weight that can be medically classified as "overweight" just not trying hard enough?

You're pulling those "false dichotomies" directly out of your ass. But that's what you people do--you take a legitimate argument against your ignorant "well, if you just tried harder you'd lose weight" bullshit and twist it around and exaggerate it to make it look like it's proving your point.

I'm carrying about 30 pounds more than the chart says I should be. I can run three miles without walking. Most thin people I know can't do that. I can lift shit that weighs more than I do. I've ridden a bike 70 miles in a day, more than once, and an average week puts about 60 miles on the old Schwinn.

Oh, and my heart, lungs, pancreas, hips, knees, and ankles? Are just fine.

Thanks for your concern, but I'll take my medical advice from someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 06:13 pm UTC (link)

No, I would never say you weren't trying hard enough. I'd say you're doing a great job. Because weight isn't everything. With that much exercise, I am sure you have lost a lot of body fat and built up muscle. There is more to good health than what the scale shows.

And that's all I'm talking about. *Healthy* weight/body structures. Not looking like one of those models that look like they'd blow away in a good stiff breeze. Everyone knows that the BMI scale is incredibly skewed, especially with regards to muscle, so I wouldn't worry that much about what the chart says. From what you have said about your lifestyle, I'm not surprised you're in great shape, and I deeply envy you.

See, the thing is, I've been where most of you are arguing from. Ten years ago I would have been saying the exact same things. I decided to hell with diets and worrying about my weight. I bought a new wardrobe of clothes that looked great on me, and felt happy with myself just the way I was. There were lots of women in my family who looked exactly like me, and I felt that the genetic mountain was too high to climb. That lasted about four years.

Then I got sick. Very, very sick. Trip from Florida to the Mayo Clinic sick. Now I'm in my mid forties with a much less resilient body and a condition that my weight is making worse. I weigh 200 lbs. and I'm 5'2", which is by no stretch of the imagination a healthy weight. Whenever I have to walk very much, i.e. take my girls to the mall, I have to use a cane. So I'm coming from another angle. It makes some people here angry to say that longterm life changes are possible. For me, what makes me angry is for people to say, "You can't do it, so just lay down and die."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 06:28 pm UTC (link)

It makes some people here angry to say that longterm life changes are possible. For me, what makes me angry is for people to say, "You can't do it, so just lay down and die."

See, this is where my problem is coming in with what you're saying. Lifestyle changes to improve your health are completely possible, and I dearly hope you succeed. THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING AS LOSING WEIGHT.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 06:51 pm UTC (link)

But the weight loss is the goal for the lifestyle changes. The extra poundage I am carrying around is placing a strain on already damaged and overworking body parts.

Again, I'm not talking love handles. I'm not talking what you look like in a swimsuit. Or like an old school friend who was built like a linebacker so of course she was going to be heavy by the BMI scales. I'm talking about people who, like me, are carrying enough excess body fat that it is hurting them. I think telling people in that position that they can't do anything about it is counterproductive.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 07:05 pm UTC (link)

Then we're never going to connect, because I don't believe that fat is inherently bad for you if you have the muscles and underlying good health habits to carry it around.

Two questions:

- What do you think about the studies that say that people in the overweight category have see fewer doctors, have fewer hospitalizations, and live longer than people in the normal weight category, and that people who are overweight but never diet live the longest of all?

- What will you do in ten years if you fall into the 96-98% of people who end up at the same weight or more, despite your best efforts?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

silrana, 2009-08-04 08:07 pm UTC

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

risha, 2009-08-04 09:34 pm UTC

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

silrana, 2009-08-04 10:27 pm UTC

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

risha, 2009-08-04 11:36 pm UTC

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... sneer 2009-08-04 07:46 pm UTC (link)
	But the weight loss is the goal for the lifestyle changes No. Being healthy is the goal for the lifestyle changes. If you happen to lose weight in the process, fine. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

sneer
2009-08-04 07:42 pm UTC (link)

With that much exercise, I am sure you have lost a lot of body fat and built up muscle

Thank you so much for your patronizing attempt to not be an asshole, but guess what--you're wrong.

I'm 5' 4", 170, and it's not all muscle. Not even close.

If I lay flat on my back I can poke my stomach and feel my abs but a visible six-pack would require me to lose the three or four jeans sizes worth of pooch and muffintop they're buried under. If I hold my leg at the right angle I can kind of see my quads but when I stand up they're invisible. And there's not a single store in a 20-mile radius that carries a sports bra that actually fits me and works.

If you saw me in a bikini (assuming someone somewhere made one that fit my weird-ass measurements), you would not know how active I am.

Although it does bother me a little for reasons I'll expand on shortly, I'm mostly fine with that. But there are people who see me ordering a small frappuccino and roll their eyes at me, or ask me if I'm really going to eat all that, or even ask me who I'm shopping for when I'm looking at running shoes.

Because I don't look like an athlete. In fact, by (some fucking ridiculous) aesthetic standards, I'm fat. And as we all know, it's not possible for fat people to be active and stay fat. *snort*

It makes some people here angry to say that longterm life changes are possible. For me, what makes me angry is for people to say, "You can't do it, so just lay down and die."

Way to entirely miss the point! What's making people angry is not saying that long term changes are possible. What's making people angry, and what makes ME absofuckinglutely livid, is saying "if you're fat it's because you're not making the right choices."

I have some lingering body image issues. Please see upthread for the fun I had in the military with this, and would you like me to tell you about the series of fad diets my mom put me on when I was in junior high because she decided that at 5' 3" and 130 pounds I was morbidly obese? Would you like me to tell you about how I spent most of 8th grade having gum for breakfast and water for lunch in the hopes that I might lose enough weight to make her stop eating dessert in front of me and telling me I couldn't have any because I had a weight problem? Would you like to hear about how relatives would see me at Christmas and Thanksgiving and go "oh, you've lost weight!" and she would go "No she didn't, she gained three pounds this week"?

Most of me wants to be okay with the fact that by some peoples' stupid standards I'm going to be fat no matter what I do (without resorting to stupid and dangerous shit). There is still that little voice that tells me the guy that leaned out his truck window and yelled "HURR FATASS" at me last week is right. I am still learning to shut it the fuck up. It's not easy.

And I'm not the only person in this boat, not by a long shot.

So how the fuck do you think I'm going to react when I see people who don't know me from Adam tell me I still have that muffin top and those jello thighs because I'm not making the right ~*~long term life choices~*~ ?

I know I can't lose much more weight and I won't get any smaller than a size 12 to 16 without resorting to stupid and dangerous shit. I eat ~2500 calories a day now because that's the amount of fuel I feel healthiest taking in. I don't plan to make the ~*~long term life change~*~ to cut it any further. If that's what you consider "laying down and dying," then just fucking bury me.

And I do know people who are about your height and about your weight who are quite healthy. If you need a cane to walk it's probably not solely because of your weight. I'm sorry you've been so ill, that's a terrible thing to have happen to you. If you don't feel healthy where you are, that's okay and it's good that you're able to recognize it and you're doing something about that, and I say that with no sarcasm whatsoever.

Now learn to recognize when you need to mind your own fucking business.

...ugh okay I'll just mop all that up on my way out, my lunch is here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 08:48 pm UTC (link)

First off, I wasn't trying to be patronizing. I *do* envy your self-discipline to put so much effort into your exercise.

I am not now and would never advocate telling people that they are lazy, etc. for not losing weight. What I *am* arguing against is people making blanket comments about it being impossible. That discourages people who are like me, whose weight is doing them physical harm, from trying.

And like I said in another post, ten years ago I would have been saying exactly the same things as you are now. I've gotten the eyeroll at the vending machine. My mother, who is stick thin, is so rabid about it that I have had to flat out forbid her to bring up the subject of weight in front of my daughters so that she doesn't fuck with their heads like she did mine. My daughters are being taught about health, not looking good for society, and I'm not letting her mess that up. I've gotten the stereotypical 'picked last in gym class'. The yelling out of the pickup truck with phrases I wouldn't repeat, even here. The boss who asked me if I'd gained weight recently because she (again, stick thin) thought that style pants 'wasn't right for people with your, um, figure'. I know *exactly* where you are coming from with the anger about how overweight people are treated.

I would never, ever, say you were lazy. Me? I'm lazy. I work at a computer all day and I don't exercise anywhere near as much as I should, within my limitations. I would say from your posts that you are doing exactly what I am talking about, and a helluva lot better than I am. You have achieved a lifestyle that you feel makes you healthy, and that makes you feel good. Size 12 to 16? Perfectly wonderful! I wouldn't dream of being one of those assholes who think that anyone who is above a size 4 is a whale.

I admit I phrased things pretty snarkily in my first couple of posts today, but I suppose that's because I react to the phrase, "It's impossible, so don't bother to try," roughly the way a bull does to a matador. When doing something is so vital to you, not just for your state of mind but for literally your survival, and people as saying that it can't be done, it gets me worked up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

sneer
2009-08-04 09:09 pm UTC (link)

What's patronizing is you talking to me like you think I can't tell the difference between fat and muscle. One jiggles. The other doesn't. It's not rocket science. Or assuming I don't know BMI lies. Yes. I do. I know that very well.

I know *exactly* where you are coming from with the anger about how overweight people are treated.

Then maybe you could try learning from that experience and, once again, LEARNING TO MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS about other peoples' weight.

I wouldn't dream of being one of those assholes who think that anyone who is above a size 4 is a whale.

Then don't engage in the same kind of blame-n-shame bullshit those assholes do when someone says "yeah, hey, I cannot safely lose any more weight." This may come as a shock to you but they might just know themselves better than you do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

silrana, 2009-08-04 09:47 pm UTC

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... sisterelwood 2009-08-04 06:49 pm UTC (link)
	. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

sandglass
2009-08-04 07:03 pm UTC (link)

Nobody is saying that weight loss is hard so you shouldn't do it, we're saying weight loss is impossible (for 98% of people) and makes you unhealthier, so you shouldn't do it. Eating a proper diet and exercising rarely results in permanent weight loss. It makes you healthier, and leaves you fat. The problem with connecting healthy habits with the goal of weight loss is when people fail after trying for two years, they quit, because they feel like failures.

Plus, fat people tend to live longer than skinny people. Fat is actually helpful if you have a health crisis, particularly things like heart attacks. Your doctor needs to do his reading before handing out advice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 07:21 pm UTC (link)

First off, not trying to be snarky, but you don't know my medical history, or my doctor, who is one of the best in my area. And I would say that the head of the endocrinology department of the Mayo Clinic is up on his reading, too.

And second, I think we may have different definitions for weight loss. If you only define it as dieting and strict regimens, then I agree with you, most people will fail. But I do not buy that permanent weight loss is not possible through incremental lifestyle changes. If I did, I might as well put a bullet in my head now because losing a portion of my excess body fat is the only way I'm going to survive very long.

As for your other points, I can only give you my purely anecdotal experiences. I had to have emergency surgery in college, and it happened right after I had lost about thirty pounds. The surgeon told my parents that if he had had to take the time to cut through the fat layers (I am one of those people who carry most of their fat on their belly) I probably would have died. And of my relatives, the ones who are thin tend to live to around 80, the overweight ones to their early to mid sixties. As I said, purely anecdotal, but that's the way it has been.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... sneer 2009-08-04 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	You don't know any of OUR doctors or medical history either. I'm just sayin'. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

darkrose
2009-08-05 11:09 am UTC (link)

And of my relatives, the ones who are thin tend to live to around 80, the overweight ones to their early to mid sixties. As I said, purely anecdotal, but that's the way it has been.

If we're talking anecdotal evidence, then I can point to my family as the opposite: no one on my father's side of the family, which is the skinny side, has lived to 65. My father was 49 when he died. My mother's 73, and while she has plenty of health issues, I think that a lot of them are rooted in the fact that she yo-yo dieted all throughout my childhood.

I'm heavier now than when we last saw each other. My blood pressure's also lower; my sugar's good, and I'm not banging my head into walls. I was 100 pounds lighter than I am now when I was regularly recording blood pressure counts of 160/115. Not coincidentally, that was around the time I had a full-on nervous breakdown. For me, the real killer isn't weight--it's stress. I'd like to be in better physical shape and to generally be a little more active, and maybe eat a little better, but the minute I start thinking "I have to lose weight", I get stressed, and the downward spiral starts.

I know you've had medical hell, and for you, weight loss may be the top priority for helping you stay healthy. But that's not going to be true for everyone, and that's why comments that imply that a) being fat is the worst thing ever and is going to lead to my imminent demise and that b) anyone can lose weight if you just get off your fat lazy ass and exercise touch a nerve.*

(*I'm not saying that's what you said, BTW--but when so much of the discourse around weight is fat-shaming and framing weight as a moral issue, I know I hear that sometimes even when it's not intended.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-06 03:23 am UTC (link)

I'm heavier now than when we last saw each other. My blood pressure's also lower; my sugar's good, and I'm not banging my head into walls. I was 100 pounds lighter than I am now when I was regularly recording blood pressure counts of 160/115. Not coincidentally, that was around the time I had a full-on nervous breakdown. For me, the real killer isn't weight--it's stress. I'd like to be in better physical shape and to generally be a little more active, and maybe eat a little better, but the minute I start thinking "I have to lose weight", I get stressed, and the downward spiral starts.

I'm heavier too, though I'm not sure by how much. Geez, I just realized how long it's been. Back then both my girls could sit in your lap, and now Daughter No. 1 is a head taller than I am. But I know how much you've had to fight stress, and the last thing you need is more. I'm at a different point on the loop - when I get stressed, my instinct is to turn to food, which sure doesn't help anything.

I know you've had medical hell, and for you, weight loss may be the top priority for helping you stay healthy. But that's not going to be true for everyone, and that's why comments that imply that a) being fat is the worst thing ever and is going to lead to my imminent demise and that b) anyone can lose weight if you just get off your fat lazy ass and exercise touch a nerve.*

(*I'm not saying that's what you said, BTW--but when so much of the discourse around weight is fat-shaming and framing weight as a moral issue, I know I hear that sometimes even when it's not intended.)

*sigh* No, it wasn't intended, but reading over my comments with the clarity of a handful of painkillers in my system, I sure sound like that's what I meant.

I do think that it's possible to make lifelong changes. But I mean that in the same way as saying that climbing to the top of a mountain is possible. It's not something that everyone should do or needs to do or will derive any benefit in doing. And I don't see a moral difference between a mountain climber, someone who doesn't want to climb any mountains, and someone who says, "screw that, it's dangerous." One is not a better person than the other.

But that analogy has an obvious flaw. In the real world, except maybe in a family of sherpas, nobody gets flack from their family and society about, "Why aren't you climbing any mountains? You could if you just applied yourself. Why can't you be more like (insert name of sibling who doesn't need to climb and can float to the top)?"

And I confess I wasn't thinking about that. My medical issues have been so all-consuming the past few years that things like body image and social pressure have sort of disappeared off my radar. But that's not the way it is for most people. In forgetting that and seeing things only through the prism of my own concerns, I was insensitive to other people's problems and struggles. I'd like to apologize for that. Everyone who was pissed off at me, you had every right to be, because I was coming off as a clueless prat.

The only defense I can make for myself is the last few days I've been going through a particularly nasty pain spell, and when that happens I can sometimes get a little nuts. I swear, I think somewhere deep in my brain the crazy part thought, "Home? No, love family. Work? No, need job. Flail idiotically on the internet? That's it!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

herongale
2009-08-05 11:38 am UTC (link)

we're saying weight loss is impossible (for 98% of people)

I'd be interested in a citation on this stat, or at least a description of a vague memory of where you might have heard it. Cuz that sounds like a made up number to me, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty sure that even if you have the percentile correct, the word "impossible" strikes me as hyperbole. It is never "impossible" to lose weight, not even for people who find it extremely, extremely difficult. For people with certain medical conditions (diabetes, heart disease, sleep apnea), attempts to lose weight are often key to maintaining good health. Not dieting, mind you, but an overall revision of one's lifestyle to include more exercise and less calories. In such cases, the idea shouldn't be to guilt people into trying to lose weight, and they shouldn't be made to feel bad if they are not successful. But if someone is personally motivated to lose weight, it's usually possible to lose a modest 10-15 lbs and keep it off. And there are real benefits to actual, sustained weight loss of this caliber: for diabetics, it can make it easier to achieve proper glycemic control, and for people with sleep apnea, it can decrease the number of apneic episodes they experience in a night.

Being thin is not inherently unhealthy, but many people become thin when they get cancer or other serious chronic illnesses. Sudden unexpected weight loss is often a harbinger of death, but that doesn't mean that people who are thin who have maintained a fairly stable weight throughout their life are particularly any worse off than people who are fat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

frequentmouse
2009-08-05 03:57 am UTC (link)

And even then, itmay not work.
Bull shit.

I just had a dietician "bitch slap"me out of a 1200 calori/day diet: I wasn'tloosing weight, my HGA1C wasn't improving, and I was short on protein and iron trying to keep my caloric intake as low as possible.

Some people doing hard physical work 8-10 hours a day can't loose weight and remain healthy.

Some doctors make careers by driving away the people whodon't fit their biases, and think they're right.`1

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

munchkinott
2009-08-07 08:09 pm UTC (link)

Some doctors make careers by driving away the people whodon't fit their biases, and think they're right.`1

Word. My doctor "bitch slapped" me into a supervised 400cal/day Vegan diet, after feeding me up with steroids I didn't need for 6 years, because my weight 'concerned' him.

I lost 12lbs in 6 months. For that I ended up in hospital for 3 weeks with every vitamin and mineral deficiency there is, severe muscle wastage (suspected early intervention ketoacidosis), a menstrual cycle that didn't know how to stop for 3 years, 5 months of physiotherapy and I'll probably be crippled with food intolerance related IBS (my body can't process starch anymore) for the rest of my life.

Irony of it is I was still in the obese/morbidly obese category and my body was behaving like I was anorexic. If I'd left it another week my kidneys would've failed and possibly my liver too.

My current doctor? Has seen all of this in my records and is pushing me to do the same again 'for your health'.

But, of course, when it comes to the You Can Make The Change/Doctor Says crowd - they don't mean people like me. They never mean people like me. I just wonder how the hell they can separate people like me from all the Fat Lazy Bastards Who Ate All The Pies And Should Lose Weight To Stop Offending Their Eyes?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

frequentmouse
2009-08-08 05:39 pm UTC (link)

Jesus Christ, where do you live, 1958? (I say this because that was then when my six-foot father was diagnosed as Type 2 they put him on a 800 calorie a day diet; he was working asa logger at the time).

There are too fucking many bottom-quartile-of-their-med-class docs who have confused very rare with never happens; they ought, at least, to have the sense god gave geese and understand when they're faced with a patient who needs to be treated differently.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

munchkinott
2009-08-09 07:25 am UTC (link)

Jesus Christ, where do you live, 1958?

Worse, England.

The problem with the idiot doctors here is weight, like smoking, is a 'will-power offence' they can hit you with a stick over while avoiding the issue of any underlying or acute medical complaints. So they get paid extra by the government who listen to the WHO's 'lifestyle disease' shrieks and drive home in a new Porsche, while patients get a fast track to an inquest and coroner's report.

This is what my doctor tried to convince me to do this time (I've tried orlistat and it doesn't work on me as I don't eat enough/eat the wrong foods - that was fun. :D). I told him, correctly, to fuck off. I'm 6ft tall, 23 stone and I'd rather die early from the joys of being a fatarsed smoker, than earlier from the interventions of experts.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... frequentmouse 2009-08-09 07:43 am UTC (link)
	Exersize, eat healthy food, own your desires: if you want cake, don't try to buy it with a "healthy meal" first. And to hell with the docs who don't get it. I'm forebearing comment on the smoking part; it's been way over twenty years and if I think about it too hard I can give myself a nicotine fit. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but... -

munchkinott, 2009-08-09 08:39 pm UTC

(Read comments) -

Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map