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Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 07:05 pm UTC (link)

Then we're never going to connect, because I don't believe that fat is inherently bad for you if you have the muscles and underlying good health habits to carry it around.

Two questions:

- What do you think about the studies that say that people in the overweight category have see fewer doctors, have fewer hospitalizations, and live longer than people in the normal weight category, and that people who are overweight but never diet live the longest of all?

- What will you do in ten years if you fall into the 96-98% of people who end up at the same weight or more, despite your best efforts?

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Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 08:07 pm UTC (link)

Actually, I agree with you about fat not being inherently bad. It is a natural part of our bodies, and its creation is a normal biological process. It is necessary for our bodies' functioning. But as with anything, it is the degree that counts. And I agree with you that someone who is moderately overweight -for someone my height, say around 25-30 lbs. - Not a whole lot of harm will be done.

Take that person who is moderately overweight, and I would continue to agree with you that their health would be better if they left their weight alone than if they yoyoed up and down. If they were eating reasonably well and getting some exercise, then I'd say that barring something unexpected, they'll do okay.

Now, take someone like me, who has at least a third of their body weight as fat. I really don't think at that point you can discount the overall effects on your body. Your heart has to handle a lot more blood. Your lungs have to work harder. Risks for conditions like Type II diabetes go up (No, eating sugar doesn't cause it, but it can overload your pancreas' capacity to handle it). The strain on your back, hips, knees and ankles is much higher than they were built to handle. And the effects of this aren't likely to show up in your twenties, but carry it around a few decades and believe me, you feel it.

Now, as to your second question, my health will be a great deal worse. My excess weight aggravates not just one, but three components of my health.

First, in addition to all my other problems, I have Type II diabetes thrown into the mix. While I'm doing an okay job with control now, I'm hovering on the edge of having to go on insulin. During both of my pregnancies, I had gestational diabetes and had to go on insulin, and the only thing that kept me going was that it would end when the baby was born. I will eat lawn clippings to avoid going back to insulin shots.

Second, before I realized I was sick, I walked around for what they estimate was a couple of years with stroke level high blood pressure. Protip - those pokes and prods at the gynecologist find more than feminine troubles, don't skip them. Because of that, my heart was damaged. I am just now, after years of care and work, reaching the point where my doctor does not hear the sounds of a malfunctioning heart. So in ten years with no improvement in the amount of work it has to do, I would say I am in for at the very least a heart valve replacement.

As it is now, I have to use a cane when I go to the mall or anyplace else I have to walk a lot because I get tired so quickly. In ten years it is entirely possible I could be in a wheelchair. Fun fact - taking a cane to Disney World is a blast. I decided to tough it out for my kids (with lots of rest breaks, naturally), and the Disney people were all over me. One of the employees even gave me an email address to send them any suggestions for how they could make things easier for people with mobility issues.

And third, I take some oddball pills. One is literally the *only* pill available for my condition. I've heard the South Koreans were working on something, but heaven knows when that will bear any fruit in the U.S. The problem with that pill is that it was generally used for another condition. Most doctors don't prescribe it, or at least not for long, all that much anymore because long-term use has a significant risk of kidney and liver damage. And I am going to be taking it for the rest of my life. If my weight was lower, my doctor could reduce the dosage, and my risk would drop.

Now, as for what I would specifically *do* in ten years? Keep trying. Because reducing my weight has a whole slew of good effects, and not losing it doesn't benefit me at all.

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Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 09:34 pm UTC (link)

Now, take someone like me, who has at least a third of their body weight as fat. I really don't think at that point you can discount the overall effects on your body. Your heart has to handle a lot more blood. Your lungs have to work harder. Risks for conditions like Type II diabetes go up (No, eating sugar doesn't cause it, but it can overload your pancreas' capacity to handle it). The strain on your back, hips, knees and ankles is much higher than they were built to handle. And the effects of this aren't likely to show up in your twenties, but carry it around a few decades and believe me, you feel it.

Unfortunately, you can't make broad, sweeping generalizations like that. Maybe your fat is too much for your damaged heart to handle long term - I'm not a heart expert. But my and many other people's perfectly normal hearts are doing just fine at the same fat percentages as yours. (I do have high blood pressure, but so does everyone else in my family, including all of the skinny people, and my heart has continually tested out as perfectly fine.) Same with my pancreas, and believe me, my doctor is near obsessive about testing my sugar twice a year, and I'm not anywhere close to pre-diabetes either. My right knee is fucked up right now because I fell hard on it again after tearing the ligaments in a fall a couple of years ago, but my left knee has carried me around with nary a twinge just fine for decades now.

Still, it sounds like you have a tough row to hoe, healthwise. I hope things improve soon. :(

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Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

silrana
2009-08-04 10:27 pm UTC (link)

Hmm, true, it probably was overly broad. But I'm sure you can agree that it isn't *good* for you. Still, if you have regular checkups and your doctor says you are doing just fine, then I certainly think that if you are happy just the way you are, great.

Looking over some of my posts, I haven't been as clear as I should have been that I'm not trying to tell people that they should lose weight if they are doing fine. If you're happy, who am I to tell you to do anything differently? I just got upset because some of the posts in this thread were acting as though nobody has a *real* reason to need to lose weight, and that is was useless to try.

Bad diets? Been there, still have the bad memories. I would never advocate them to anyone. Insane exercise regimens? Okay, I'm too lazy for one of those, but I knew a girl in college who nearly screwed herself up badly doing that. Again, not a fan, no way I would tell someone to do something like that. A stick thin figure being somehow essential to life? One word. Mom. Grrrrr.

So when I said, "If I do this, it could do something positive for my health, and I don't think people should be saying it's bad to try it," I didn't mean for anyone to translate it as "You should do everything humanly possible, no matter how stupid, to become a Twiggy lookalike or you're an awful, terrible person." Sorry I let my emotions and temper make me upset enough that I didn't pick my words more carefully.

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Re: Might get some negative feedback on this, but...

risha
2009-08-04 11:36 pm UTC (link)

Well, it's not like I was absolutely clear with everything I said, either.

I just worry about people, because sometimes (almost always!) it really is impossible for that person to permanently lose weight, and it becomes a gigantic trap of trying, failing, and then feeling bad about themselves. And then society tries to tell them that it's a death sentence (usually false) that they've given themselves (usually false).

From there, it becomes very easy from this side for that concern about the damage that people can, and do, do to themselves in this endless quest, to come across as poo-pooing the idea that you're one of the tiny minority of people can lose some and the even tinier number who are healthier if they can.

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