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Like a book club, except with more sex! ([info]notjo) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2009-09-20 18:29:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
I doubt your committment to edginess
Once, long ago, an author released a book unto the world. And this book was considered to be awful by many many many critics, to the point where much parody was made of the author, the book, and the fans. This mockery ramped up when a movie was made, and even more people were introduced to the author. And, of course, all truly "hip" readers turned up their noses, refusing to call that... that... tripe... literature.

I am, of course, talking about Dan Brown.

Over at
Literary Tattoos, Loosma writes:

I love Dan Brown, particularly his Robert Langdon series and I have huge respect for him and his research for his new book The Lost Symbol. I'm reading that now and I'm having a hard time putting it down but there are some great quotes in here. I keep wanting to highlight them and come back because sometimes I come across a sentence that hits me hard just because it relates to me in a way. As do everyone when they tattoo a quote or lyric or whatever on their body

Anyway, so really if any readers of those books have gotten a tattoo relating to the plot or through some quote in there? Especially puzzle lovers? lol



Marvel at the pretentiousness, when we're assured that people are basically sheep and only the amazing folks at Literary Tattoos are capable of sorting that a dancing dog isn't that big a deal.

Be assured that a book is no longer any good once it's popular.

Discuss how Brown does research wrong! Have other people insist that Dan Brown actually does lots of research and is very accurate! (I skipped that, because I am an historian who lives with a theologian, so LOL NO)

OMG! Everyone is so meeen! - not from the OP, although she agrees. More MEEEN!

The OP ultimate tacks on her flounce, in bold:
Ok ok! I got the message! Dan Brown sucks, I have horrible literary sense, the oprah book club thing is probably I something should check into, etc etc etc. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of how polite or bitchy it was presented but to each their own.



I just want you all to know that I hated Dan Brown before it was "in" to hate Dan Brown. I bet it's now ~edgy~ to be scholar who loves Dan Brown for the plot, and I totes want to be ~edgy~. Dan Brown Forever! Go Robert Langdon!


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]beejium
2009-09-21 04:50 am UTC (link)
I don't understand the Dan Brown hate. I thoroughly enjoyed both his last books and am looking forward to buying stealing the new one from my stepmom when she's done because I'm poor. I'm no history major or anything, but I don't see what's so horribly wrong about him not doing his research. Thousands upon thousands of other works have been terribly inaccurate and haven't been subject to as much venom as Dan Brown has, so what's the big deal?

Honestly, if I wanted to read a super srs book about the Knights Templar or whatever, I'd go read a textbook. I'm in it for the campy LHC subplot and the dudes getting killed in creative ways.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]hallidae
2009-09-21 04:56 am UTC (link)
Part of the reason is because he sold it as conspiracy truth wrapped in a story when the first book came out. It wasn't until historians, art historians, astronomers, geographers, etc. started trashing him loudly up and down that he finally admitted that he'd blown inaccuracy for the sake of fiction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]brennalarose
2009-09-21 05:04 am UTC (link)
Okay, that I will grant and that's because it's true. That part of it annoyed the hell out of me. I enjoy his books, but I wouldn't use them on a research paper. I just file him next to my Mercedes Lackey Fairy Tales and Peter Tremaine's overly-expository mysteries and shake my fist at him for keeping me entertained with the theologico-intellectual equivalent of a Little Johnny Joke.

(Delete and repost to clarify and re-icon)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-21 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 05:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]inarticulate, 2009-09-21 05:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-09-21 02:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeakthemouse, 2009-09-21 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-09-21 01:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 03:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magnolia_mama, 2009-09-21 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2009-09-22 12:53 pm UTC
My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-21 07:58 pm UTC
Re: My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]notjo, 2009-09-21 08:23 pm UTC
Not a Little Johnny, but... - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-21 08:59 pm UTC
Re: My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]dejla, 2009-09-24 12:39 am UTC
Re: My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 08:35 pm UTC
Re: My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 08:42 pm UTC
Re: My favorite Little Johnny joke: - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-09-22 02:04 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2009-09-21 09:45 am UTC (link)
This might just be an invention of my faulty memory, but I recall Brown saying something about the "conspiracy truth wrapped in a story" bit itself being a part of the story (or some other meta-y postmodern-ish thing), so it wasn't his fault if people took it seriously.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2009-09-21 02:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]catslash, 2009-09-21 05:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2009-09-21 05:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-21 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2009-09-26 07:21 pm UTC

[info]brennalarose
2009-09-21 04:57 am UTC (link)
Word. Okay, so he's no literary god and his research is iffy, at best. The Da Vinci Code was a fun bit of mindless adventure novel for me and, if nothing else, I had fun turning my copy of Angels and Demons around and around and giggling at the cool writing effects (I was on Vicodin and very very loopy).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tofuknight
2009-09-21 05:03 am UTC (link)
Trust me, you don't need to be on Vicodin to giggle at the writing stuff in that book.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-09-21 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2009-09-29 06:47 pm UTC

[info]adevyish
2009-09-21 05:30 am UTC (link)
A friend lent me Angels and Demons and I was too angry at the gender typecasting to read any more of his books. Otherwise it was ok, but I didn't get the hype.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]persona, 2009-09-21 05:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2009-09-24 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostmaster, 2009-09-21 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-09-21 02:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-09-21 04:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-21 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2009-09-22 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostmaster, 2009-09-21 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-09-21 01:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2009-09-22 02:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-09-22 03:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-09-22 04:03 pm UTC

[info]stella_polaris
2009-09-21 01:11 pm UTC (link)
I wanted to punch Brown in the face when I got to the point where Langdon had to turn the fax over and over again to make sure it was *gasp* the illuminati. The mad sure loves his Epic Reveals.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]t_boy
2009-09-21 05:49 am UTC (link)
Read Da Vinci Code, spent an enjoyable day going, "Ooh! I remember Alan Moore talking about this!" over and over again.

Read Angels and Demons, got so angry I swore I'd never read his books ever again.

...

I don't even know what the difference was between those two books.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]feenix
2009-09-21 06:50 am UTC (link)
There's a difference?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2009-09-21 07:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2009-09-21 08:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-09-21 01:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]luxshine, 2009-09-21 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2009-09-21 05:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2009-09-22 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]luxshine, 2009-09-22 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-22 09:29 pm UTC

[info]phosfate
2009-09-21 06:38 am UTC (link)
Oh, you know, just the shitty writing style, the formulaic plots, the shit writing, the writing, the cliches, the writing, the crap writing, and the fact that there is no such thing as a goddamn fucking symbologist.

I liked the movie of Da Vinci Code, though. Really funny shit.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tehrin
2009-09-21 08:34 am UTC (link)
You forgot the writing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]major_dallas
2009-09-21 10:39 am UTC (link)
... sheesh, I just cam to read a good wank report, I didn't expect a the Spanish Inquisition... nor the writing

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]stella_polaris
2009-09-21 01:16 pm UTC (link)
And the writing.



But jesus christ WORD.

(Although the movie annoyed me just as much. They shook off the crappy dialogue, but the plot was still stunningly naive and overly dramatic. A&D, however, was actually okay as a movie.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]catslash
2009-09-21 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Plus I hear the writing is not so good.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]big_bad_wolf
2009-09-24 04:42 pm UTC (link)
The movie had naked Paul Bettany flagellating himself in it.

There MAY have been some other shit about Jesus but I don't really remember it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]empy, 2009-09-24 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2009-09-25 06:50 pm UTC

[info]darth_wanker
2009-09-21 07:33 am UTC (link)
I'm with you. I equate it a little bit to Twilight in that I know what I am reading is not literary genius, but it is entertaining enough to keep me going. Only the Dan Brown stuff is maybe one or two ladder pegs above the SMeyer stuff in that there is no Cesarean section being performed by sparkly vampire teeth. Perhaps that will be in the next book, "Robert Langdon and the Adventures of Vampire Judas."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-09-21 07:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deliciouschaos, 2009-09-21 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2009-09-22 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2009-09-22 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-22 09:38 pm UTC

[info]cjk
2009-09-21 09:30 am UTC (link)
I think nobody would care at all, only he's presenting that stuff as One True Fact and there's such a forest of conspiracy theories and theorists grown around his nonsense, all taking for a fact, never mind how many glass planes there actually are in the Louvre pyramid. If it was just another Indiana Jones it wouldn't matter, but Dan Brown isn't marketing his stuff as harmless urban almost-fantasy mysteries, but as OMGreal, and he offends quite a few people and organizations along the way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cjk, 2009-09-21 09:36 am UTC

[info]stella_polaris
2009-09-21 01:09 pm UTC (link)
Mostly, it's because he's a bad writer who has nice plot bunnies. And not so much that, but the fact that he's so goddamn popular. I just feel like it's unfair to those writers who can, you know, actually write.

Plus people who honestly think his books are GENIUS and INTELLIGENT and DEEP. I don't mind people saying they read him because you can just turn your brain off and enjoy the mindlesness of it (although I get too enraged by the BAD WRITING to even do that), but people actually think he's good. Loads of people.


And yes, it pisses me off how stupid his characters are. It frustrates me as a reader.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lady_ganesh
2009-09-21 02:21 pm UTC (link)
Mirror writing.

Mirror writing.

When my eight-year-old could figure out the Big Secret that the Ph.D.s are boggling over...yeah. That's when my 'meh' turned into SERIOUSLY WTF IS THIS SHIT.

But YMMV, and if you enjoy the books, enjoy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]girlmorphine
2009-09-21 07:41 pm UTC (link)
For myself, I can say that I simply hate Robert Langdon and his endless "Aaaaactually did you know the swastika hasn't always been symbol of ultimate evol hurr hurr?" No, seriously, he does it every three pages. And without fail, whoever Langdon is speaking to, is MINDBLOWN and THEIR EYES ARE OPENED, and hurrr, Robert, you're so smart.

Combined with Brown pulling shit out of his ass and Langdon being a huge stinking Stu/SI, it's just annoying. Langdon is like... a meta-Stu.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-09-21 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]girlmorphine, 2009-09-21 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilgoala, 2009-09-21 11:04 pm UTC

[info]sistercoyote
2009-09-21 08:01 pm UTC (link)
My biggest complaint about Brown is that Umberto Eco did it first, and better.

Although it was much, much denser to get through.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eisoj5, 2009-09-21 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-22 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2009-09-22 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2009-09-21 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-09-22 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_eponine, 2009-09-22 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sqbr, 2009-09-22 03:08 pm UTC

[info]melannen
2009-09-22 02:57 am UTC (link)
I hate Dan Brown because of the political ideology that underlies his books. (I mean, the general suckiness of everything about them and the privilege!fail helps, but I've enjoyed just-plain-bad books before; it's the ideology that kills it for me.)

I also frankly admit that I haven't gotten past chapter one of Da Vinci Code, but I did get through almost half of the "nonfiction" book he stole based his plot on, and besides also being full of logic!fail, the foundations it's based on are deeply, deeply anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic, among other things, with the central premise being that rich white Protestant Europeans have divine right to rule the whole world because they carry the blood of God, and all the deeply icky subtext that goes with that. Either he read Holy Blood, Holy Grail and *completely failed to notice* the underlying white suprematist argument, or he did notice and decided it was a good book anyway, and either way, I don't *want* to visit his stories.

I mean, seriously, far-right is not necessarily automatically bad, I can enjoy a good bit of OHJOHNRINGONO id-candy with the best of them, and I cut my milk teeth on libertarian SF, but the HBHG authors consider The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a serious historical document of historicalness1. And these are the people Dan Brown considered an authority. :/

From the little I know about Dan Brown's other books, they aren't any better on the icky-far-right-agenda scale. They could be masterpieces of literary craftsmanship, and they'd still make me go a bit pukey in my throat.

When I want to read out-there badly researched badly-plotted paranoid conspiracy theory thrillers, I prefer far-left conspiracy theory thrillers, thanks.


1To be fair, they don't actually think the Protocols were written by the Jews; they think they were written by Freemasons. But frankly, if you allow the Protocols any sort of authenticity whatever, you're part of the problem, not the solution. And anti-freemasonry propaganda has always had a deeply political element of its own--associated in America with Nativist and anti-Democratic populist demagogues, which translate to the direct ancestors of today's Birthers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-22 10:41 am UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-09-23 01:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-23 01:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-09-23 01:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-09-23 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-09-24 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sqbr, 2009-09-22 03:14 pm UTC

[info]jar
2009-09-24 11:31 am UTC (link)
If it helps, I hate him because his writing is awful, nothing to do with how historically accurate he is or not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2009-09-24 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2009-09-25 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2009-09-25 06:49 pm UTC

[info]rimrunner
2009-09-26 07:16 pm UTC (link)
I like a good bit of pseudo-occult-driven pulp as much as the next person, but frankly Dan Brown's writing is so bad that it actively interferes with my enjoyment of the story. I made it 25 pages into The Da Vinci Code and couldn't take it anymore.

Call me a snob if you wish, but that's the truth.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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