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elfwreck ([info]elfwreck) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2009-12-03 19:36:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Ebook drama!
This is *fascinating*. Really. I never get to see real ebook drama; it's usually "oh, I could never give up the smell of real books!" vs "umm, 300 books in my pocket, yay!" And then there's some mumblings on both sides, and they both move on and read books on whatever media tweaks their kinks. But not this time!

I bring you... Alan Kaufman vs Mobileread!

Who, you might ask, is Alan Kaufman? I don't know! Apparently, he's written some books. And he blogs about writerly things. And a little over a month ago, he wrote The Electronic Book Burning, in which he compares ebooks to Nazis:
The book is fast becoming the despised Jew of our culture. Der Jude is now Der Book. Hi-tech propogandists tell us that the book is a tree-murdering, space-devouring, inferior form of technology; that society would simply be better-off altogether if we euthanized it even as we begin to carry around, like good little Aryans, whole libraries in our pockets, downloaded on the Uber-Kindle.
Serious Godwin points for that. In an opening salvo, even. (It's okay, folks, he's Jewish, and that makes it okay for him to compare technological advances to the Holocaust. Erm.)

What's Mobileread? A website devoted to ebooks, ebook sources, ebook devices, and people who read ebooks. It's big. And active.

Mobileread, with its membership of 50,000 ebook aficionados, who range from copyfight fanatics to language purists to casual Kindle readers, are interested in *anything* about ebooks. And ebook author Steve Jordan posted a discussion thread: Kaufman links e-book trend to bookburning, Nazis.

Of the 19 pages of comments, 10 are from the last few days, because Kaufman had to return to a thread that had been moribund for almost a month to post A Statement From Alan Kaufman, author of 'THE ELECTRONIC BOOKBURNING' To My Mobile Read Critics. He makes sure to link back to his original rant essay, in case any of us were incapable of clicking back to the beginning of the thread.)

He has some new things to say!
But this is not a Gutenberg moment: it is a Nuremberg moment--a linguistic and cultural mass murder of the human mind; an economic Krystallnacht against the book, book culture, literacy and human freedom. We are witness to the ghettoization and deportation of our language and literature to the internet,where it will surely perish.
Pixel-stained technopeasant Nazi wretches. Widespread distribution of literature=bookburning! Mobileread promptly hands him the pieces of his ass from several directions. But he can't leave it at that. And, of course, since he has no actual *point* to make, he can't reply to the questions (like, where did you get that claim that America is 25% illiterate?) or issues raised--so he makes yet *another* bloggish post in the middle of a long, long thread: A Further Response To His Mobile Read Critics.
For you are merch-juggled children breastfed on marketing strategies hatched before you were born and are so fully inculcated with h-tech propoganda that it is safe to say that with few exceptions virtually your entire generation haven't the capacity to interrogate your own experience vis a vis the addictive, soul-numbing machines that have become mocking substitutes for your human experience.
My, check out the big brain on Brad Alan! And in case you thought his brain was the only thing big about him:
So, I'd like to extend the following invite to any on this site. Lets thumbwrestle for three shirtless private rounds in an alley of my choice, and see who's left victorious: my 6'2”, 200 pound, tattooed, 57 year old military veteran Bronx-born poetry writing streetfighting ass or your nerdy and ignorant Silicon Folly digitized selves.
That's right: you ebook geeks are so pathetic, I can beat you up! (At thumbwrestling. Wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of threatening real assault.) But he is capable of actually replying to a person: Dear FlorenceArt,
Yours is actually the sole reply from among 230 postings here that resonates with me (I have read each and every one: a private survey of e-book readers, to unearth signs of intelligent life: yours is the only evidence that I've so far found).
Because insisting that several dozen replies full of insightful discussion points (and a handful of minor wankish digressions) contain no signs of intelligent is a *sure* way to convince people that you're right!


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]undomielregina
2009-12-04 05:07 am UTC (link)
I maintain that the print book will be all but dead within 50 years. I'm also convinced that widespread change will happen as soon as college students start using e-book versions of their textbooks (so easy to carry!) They'll be accustomed to reading on an e-book screen and it'll seem obvious and convenient to do all their reading there.

Apparently, this means that I'm a filthy, Nazi book-burner. I learn such interesting things about myself thanks to Journalfen!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]elfwreck
2009-12-04 05:15 am UTC (link)
I expect pbooks to have a place for a good long time, because they really do have some features & advantages ebooks can't match. Long-term storage/archiving is one of them; we can read pbooks that are 500 years old; we have trouble with digital files that are 10 years old.

Coffee-table art books aren't as good on a screen. Multimedia books, esp. for children, can't be recreated digitally; they can't "pat the bunny" or watch the hungry caterpillar eat holes in reality on a monitor. And we've yet to come up with a good screen version of "flip through these pages quickly, looking for that photo in the upper left corner next to the purple box." Some reference uses beg for physical books.

But, umm. Those are specialized uses. I expect that, within 50 years, "normal" books will be digitized, with print books being either special-use or specifically for distribution to low-tech areas of the world.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keleri
2009-12-04 06:06 am UTC (link)
I'm also convinced that widespread change will happen as soon as college students start using e-book versions of their textbooks (so easy to carry!)

THIS TIMES A MILLION. Carry on.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]adevyish
2009-12-04 09:11 am UTC (link)
Nobody I know in 3rd year or up buys their textbooks any more; they're just too expensive. We find a PDF or drop by the reading room.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2009-12-04 10:29 am UTC (link)
I don't buy. I rent. One of my teachers in the summer recommended it. I'm in heaven. 40 bucks for 4 months versus 250 for a 4 months.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keleri
2009-12-04 08:57 pm UTC (link)
For us we were lucky since by third year, there weren't any textbooks in wide print that were good for the specialized work we were doing. I think the last textbook I bought was for a 1st-year logic course I took one summer.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bienegold
2009-12-04 06:59 am UTC (link)
Ugh, I hope not. I can't read large swaths of text on a screen.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bienegold
2009-12-04 07:06 am UTC (link)
I should amend this to say that I have nothing against ebooks, I just hope that pbooks don't go away before I die. That is all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]blue_penguin
2009-12-04 07:35 am UTC (link)
Yeah, agreed. I don't think ebooks will destroy the world or anything, but reading big chunks of text on a screen is difficult for me, so I would like print books to outlive me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2009-12-04 11:41 am UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-04 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bienegold, 2009-12-04 02:17 pm UTC

[info]elfwreck
2009-12-04 02:52 pm UTC (link)
Part of the change will be "make screens that actually WORK for reading lots of text."

I have a Sony Reader, and the e-ink screen (not "e-paper," which is something else) is as easy on the eyes as paper. But it's slow to turn pages--not slower than turning by hand, but there's no quick-flip option. And e-ink is (currently) B&W only, and relatively low resolution, and involves a glass screen, which, umm. Yeah.

Ebook readers are still very much new tech, and not getting near the development hours/dollars of nifty cellphone apps. Ebooks won't come close to replacing paper until they've worked out a lot more bugs in the presentation options.

(And until someone wins the format wars. Don't get me started on PDF vs ePub vs PRC/Mobi vs FB2.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2009-12-04 08:08 pm UTC

[info]seiberwing
2009-12-04 07:46 pm UTC (link)
I imagine that much like a lot of other technologies, the next generation will be a lot better adapted to reading it on screens and it'll get phased out that way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]willywanka
2009-12-04 09:31 pm UTC (link)
Same, it hurts my eyes. But I also yearn for the ability to crtl+f with a physical book (when the ToC/index aren't enough).

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bobafeis
2009-12-04 10:08 am UTC (link)
Textbook pub companies are on that, believe me. Considering the money they stand to make off of ebooks (no more pesky used textbook market), most of the people I know working at educational publishers are salivating over ebooks.

Since I am a bookstore/(trade) publishing house type, does that make me some sort of collaborator since I talk to these people regularly?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]tangentialone
2009-12-04 10:40 am UTC (link)
(no more pesky used textbook market)

But wouldn't you just get a pesky pirate market instead? I mean nobody's going to bother scanning a 400 page textbook a la carpetbook, but....

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]galateus, 2009-12-04 01:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-12-04 05:49 pm UTC

[info]catslash
2009-12-04 06:33 pm UTC (link)
Yes! I read several of my assigned books this semester via apps on my iPod, and am considering getting a Kindle for a bigger screen (the iPod screen is readable for me, but with like a paragraph per page, flipping through the app in class to to find an excerpt the professor is talking about is an exercise in futility); I prefer reading print books, but having one less book to keep track of and jam into my backpack was so convenient.

So, does that make me, like, someone who turned a blind eye while the Nazis swarmed the streets or something?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ianthefira
2009-12-04 08:15 pm UTC (link)
I'm hoping otherwise. Personally, I couldn't really get used to it unless they end up with a 'quickflip', sort of like a page-turning thing. Also, staring a screen for hours gives me a headache.

I like the fact that it's light and can carry lots of books. It's just expensive and delicate, among other things.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]warrioreowyn
2009-12-05 02:17 am UTC (link)
I hope not. I don't oppose ebooks on principle, but I don't enjoy reading them - I've bought textbooks that are available free online just for the convenience of it (being able to read them somewhere that isn't at my computer, easier to flip back to previous pages).

I don't see books dying out. It's tough to take a laptop to the beach. You can't dogear your favorite pages on a screen. There's just something more comfortable about reading an actual book.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]undomielregina
2009-12-05 04:20 am UTC (link)
current e-reader software has programming that lets you mark pages for later reference -- it also has a notes system that's like writing in the margins. E-ink screens don't have backlighting, so they're no harder to read than a physical novel. Right now, the big thing that's holding e-readers back is price and browsing functionality, which are serious concerns.

I do agree about the beach, I'm just talking about 50 years down the line, when everyone posting here will be senior citizens. I'd be really surprised if affordable e-readers weren't the way most people purchased books.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]braisinhussy
2009-12-05 04:14 am UTC (link)
Print will die if/when universities ever change their tenure qualifications. This sort of thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish_or_perish

(university press employee here, although I'm a bit tipsy so I may be speaking out my arse)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]undomielregina
2009-12-05 04:23 am UTC (link)
my dad's a professor, so I'm very familiar with publish or perish. It doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm talking about, though, since I firmly believe that the printed word will continue. I just think that most sales of any kind of published work will be in e-book formats rather than physical printings.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]braisinhussy, 2009-12-05 05:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]undomielregina, 2009-12-05 07:13 am UTC

[info]chikane
2009-12-05 11:07 am UTC (link)
Dead? Hardly, it won't even be close to that, books just have too many inherent advantages over ebooks that ebooks simply can't match.
Ebooks will be bigger part of the market than them, though, probably mainly for pricing reasons, once ebook readers become affordable.

One just has to hope ebook-readers in 30 years can read ebooks of today.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tachikoma01
2009-12-09 05:25 pm UTC (link)
I worry about having the equivalent of library access on ebooks though. I haven't paid for a new book since I left college, thanks to my local libraries. And I'd probably read far less if I didn't have the free book library option.

I'm not sure if by 'one free terminal per library' that google is working on means 'we'll give you one place you can READ for free' or 'one place you can DOWNLOAD for free', but in either case... considering the current lines at the library I go to, that's far from sufficient.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]undomielregina
2009-12-09 05:36 pm UTC (link)
There are a lot of library systems that already offer e-books, and apparently they're popular with college students because of the convenience. Most libraries handle it by contracting with a service that then allows a certain number of people at a time to download the book onto a reader/computer/whatever. It's handled the same way that movie rentals on iTunes work -- when the borrowing period is up, the file automatically deletes off the device. So libraries are already working on adapting to the change. Imo, if e-books really take over library collections, library systems are going to have to maintain servers to store their collections so that they can control their collections more directly rather than relying on a service, though.

My professors/classmates disagree, but then, they still squawk every time I suggest that e-books are going to take over. I'm 90% sure that everyone who sees "within 50 years" mentally translates that to "in the next decade" for some reason. It's not happening yet. It's not even going to happen soon. But I think we'll see e-books as dominant by the time every single person currently posting on Journalfen is a senior citizen. Among other things, that would make us all the dinosaur generation who can't adapt, which has a nice direct analogue to computers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-12-09 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]undomielregina, 2009-12-09 07:34 pm UTC

[info]thesaneminority
2009-12-10 02:21 am UTC (link)
You know, I think that e-books are a good idea, and would love a Kindel if I had the money (which, in a couple years, I probably will), but there's one thing I'm pretty sure it can't replace or reproduce - the actual sensation of holding a book in your hands, turning the pages, rubbing them between your fingers, smelling the ink and the paper, etc. And that's something I will always love. So while I'm all for e-books, I'm just as much for print books, and will probably invest in both.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]elfwreck
2009-12-10 04:15 am UTC (link)
The sensation of holding a book quickly gets buried under the frustration of needing two hands, of pages that don't lie flat and curl too much in the center, and the annoying weight that hurts your wrists.

There are some things ebooks don't do well, and some of them they probably never will--coffee-table art books, children's books with touchable pages (fuzzy pages, pages with holes in them), metallic inks. And right now, ebooks are poor at reference work; even searchable ones don't have an easy equivalent of "put three little slips of paper to be able to quickly flip to these sections you know you're going to keep re-reading as you write your dissertation."

I have a Sony Reader, and while I knew I'd love it (I'd been reading on a PDA for a couple of years before the big investment), it didn't occur to me that I'd feel mostly unable to read paper books anymore. I can barely stand to read paper; I want it converted to pixels and put on a screen.

I know not everyone is going to feel that way, and there's plenty of room for both paper & ebooks. But I suspect that, over the next few decades, a lot of the casual, throwaway books are going to convert to e-formats.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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