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	the__ivorytower 2010-02-24 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	That comment does suck, though I'd heard the reason why he was mad is because the person who won didn't attempt anything particularly difficult, and the person who didn't win did? I'm not really following a lot of it, mostly just curiosity about the hockey stomping. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	xturtle 2010-02-24 07:11 pm UTC (link)
	From what I hear, the US dude skated a clean program with nothing higher than a triple (NB still hard!), while Plushenko skated a wobbly program with a quad jump in it. Sure, the quad's worth more points than one of the triples, but the bobbles still get deductions... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

deliciouschaos
2010-02-24 07:32 pm UTC (link)

Going off of the reactions of various figure skating aficionados that I've seen, it's been a very long time since someone got a gold medal without a quad. There was a sense that the quad was required, despite it being insanely difficult and knowing that one badly landed jump can throw a skater off for the rest of the program. A lot of what I've heard is "HE DID IT WITHOUT A QUAD OH THANK GOD FINALLY"

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	tez 2010-02-24 07:47 pm UTC (link)
	I want to say the last time was...1992? I don't think Viktor Petrenko had a quad in his repertoire. I know Brian Boitano HAD one, but opted not to do it. I think he tried for it in that year's world championships and didn't quite hit it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	senor_pinata 2010-02-25 02:55 am UTC (link)
	No one landed one in Nagano, though they were trying. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tez 2010-02-25 03:02 am UTC (link)
	There was a lot of falling in Nagano, wasn't there? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	senor_pinata 2010-02-25 03:04 am UTC (link)
	I think so. For the dudes. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2010-02-25 04:27 am UTC (link)
	Right? Because once the quad becomes common, what then, trying for a quint? It's getting a bit out of hand. (Reply to this)(Parent)

tez
2010-02-24 07:55 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, that's pretty much what I saw. Lysacek nailed everything -- jumps, spins, footwork, everything -- while Plushenko did a lot of jumping around but didn't do anything particularly smoothly. It felt like he was just going through the motions in between the jumps.

Sometimes I wonder how some of these jumpmaniac skaters would do if they were skating in the age of compulsory figures.

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	xturtle 2010-02-24 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	I'm glad someone finally did it. The focus on jumping has always annoyed me -- all of skating takes so much strength and control (heck, I can only stand up on the things for a few minutes before the muscled in my lower legs complain vigorously) -- why focus on only one sort of skill? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

tez
2010-02-24 08:28 pm UTC (link)

I remember thinking 'oh they make it look so easy' before getting on skates for the first time. After my ass got introduced to the ice numerous times I revised my opinion.

What gets me is that this insistence that the quad is the uber-jump takes away from the fact that Lysacek did (iirc) two triple axels in his program. That was the hardest jump out there before the quad came around, and it's probably the one style of jump that'll never be done as a quad, it's too hard. That's not exactly tiddlywinks.

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mary_mac
2010-02-24 11:45 pm UTC (link)

In the words of one of the Beeb's commentators, "Oh son, you have to do the transitions too."

I mostly want to smack that particular person, but yeah. And doing what Lysacek does, especially with his build, is nigh-impossible. There's a reason everyone else that tall is playing hockey.

Also it's nice to watch a programme in the knowledge the skater will not land on their head. I'm sure the judges like it even more than me.

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witty
2010-02-26 01:35 am UTC (link)

OT, but I really liked compulsory figures. I don't know a thing about them except that I watched Boitano do them on TV (uh... I guess that makes it 1992) and to see them was to be able to say, "Yes, that is a difficult skill that requires practice, talent and precision."

How can you not like that?? Also, it was just kind of neat, being able to look at the ice and the pattern his skate-blades had made. When it's all big leaps and fast movement, you don't always get to see fine detail like that.

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	tez 2010-02-26 02:09 am UTC (link)
	Would've probably been 1988; he didn't compete in 1992, came back in 1994, and I'm not sure if figures had been abolished by then or not. I watched them in 1988 and I was totally fascinated. That's a skill that I think has gotten totally lost with all the jumptacularity that people keep harping on. Hardcore fundamentals, that's what figures are. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adevyish 2010-02-25 03:31 am UTC (link)
	From the detailed marks breakdown, it looks like Plushenko lost due to artistry, spin difficulty, and jump wobbles. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	caffeine_fairy 2010-02-25 09:03 am UTC (link)
	And Lysacek's program was just beautiful, whilst Plushenko's was frankly a lot of jumps strung (unsteadily) together. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lady_ganesh 2010-02-24 07:53 pm UTC (link)
	Figure skating has always had tension between artistry and a clean program vs. athleticism and difficult jumps. Women are generally encouraged toward the former and men toward the latter, which is one of the reasons I stopped seriously watching years ago. (Reply to this)(Parent)

quinctia
2010-02-25 02:47 am UTC (link)

From what I saw of the men's programs, it seems that lately men's ice skating has become men's ice falling due to them trying for jumps they can't complete. I'm all for giving props if you can do crazy hard jumps and still actually skate the rest of your program.

If they're going to look winded halfway through, not do any connections, and a good third of them bobble crazily and end up on their ass, I'd rather not see quads.

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