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Sarracenia ([info]sarracenia) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2010-03-08 19:03:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
A tiny old wank, but one that's a microcosm of why I love programming wank.

Background information for non-computer people:
PHP is an older web programming language, that's widely supported by everyone on the planet and thus decidedly uncool. IBM supports it, for chrissakes. Do you get more stodgy than that?
Ruby on Rails is a new, hip web programming language and framework that is way cooler than PHP. And supposedly it's easier to program with, but mostly it is way cool. Twitter uses it!
Frameworks are software to make it easier to program. They're kinda boring, except that Ruby on Rails has theirs automatically included while PHP people have to find or make their own, thus making Rails infinitely more cool.


When writing an article about your new PHP framework, never, ever make an unflattering side comment about Rails. Else its creator will jump in immediately with:

“Rails also suffers because it is hard to decouple Rails code from page display code.”. WTF?

Have you actually tried Rails? What part of MVC escaped your observant eye? When you talk about “Rails code”, what would you be referring to? Business logic? Controller logic? Hand-waving logic?

Not only does Rails go to greater lengths than most to separate concerns, but it also ships with a host of solutions to better organize “page display code” (I assume you’re referring to view logic). From partials to helpers to layouts.

Hell must certainly have frozen over with pigs flying across the skies. There’s no other day of the week that a PHP framework could be slinging accusations of poorly separated concerns.


CLEARLY THIS IS OFF TO A FRIENDLY START. Why, next I expect them to be sitting in a circle singing Kumbaya. Or slinging accusations of slander, hyperbole, cult membership, and of course fascism in less than thirty comments. One of the two.


(Post a new comment)


[info]galateus
2010-03-09 03:55 am UTC (link)
Not even a fascist, a facist. Like, someone who's prejudiced based on other people's faces.

(Reply to this)


[info]t_boy
2010-03-09 04:09 am UTC (link)
...PHP's an old language.

I thought I'd never see the day, you know?

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[info]keri
2010-03-09 05:15 am UTC (link)
There is a great image I saw a few weeks ago that compares the different languages according to how programmers view each other. I wish I had the link or someone could pipe up with it, because "PHP's an old language" really didn't come across there. (Instead, it was "PHP is for wusses" or something.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sarracenia
2010-03-09 05:19 am UTC (link)
Only in comparison to Ruby! All the other programmers can still look down on PHP and laugh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sorchar
2010-03-09 05:49 am UTC (link)
I remember hand-coding my first website in HTML, back in the day. "Back in the day" is a phrase which here means "only about fifteen years ago dear God when did I get old?"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]t_boy
2010-03-09 03:34 pm UTC (link)
Oh god that's right no one codes in raw HTML anymore WTF.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2010-03-09 08:49 pm UTC (link)
*raises hand*

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[info]beckyh2112
2010-03-10 12:39 am UTC (link)
Not since I discovered that Livejournal does most everything I actually wanted a website for, no.

On the other hand, the fact that I actually know a lot of raw HTML means I am often baffled as to why people don't know how to use lj-cuts, link things, or indicate emphasis with something other than the Shift key.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rhosyn_du
2010-03-10 12:54 am UTC (link)
I do, but at this point, it's mostly because the looks I get from my coworkers amuse me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lauchlen
2010-03-10 02:08 am UTC (link)
I do! *raises hand* LJ and a strong desire to have my journal looking the way I want it to taught me all the HTML I know.

Wordpress uses PHP and I have no clue what the hell it's about. So if PHP's old and confuses me, then I don't even want to look at this Ruby on Rails thing.

What's so wrong with CSS and HTML, oh Programmer People of the World? CSS and HTML work! And they're easy to understand!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]seriousbusiness
2010-03-10 03:27 am UTC (link)
I hand-type HTML by hand! In NOTEPAD, even - unless I'm on the Mac, which means I use Smultron (which is also great for doing simple stuff in bash)


(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]seriousbusiness
2010-03-10 03:27 am UTC (link)
Errr, get rid of that by hand. Hello typing fail =/

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sunhawk
2010-03-11 04:39 am UTC (link)
We don't? Excuse me... need to hide...something...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]felinephoenix
2010-03-11 10:33 pm UTC (link)
I do! That said, when I'm working on a big project there's no way in hell I will do it all by hand.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]athersgeo
2010-03-12 01:24 pm UTC (link)
*raises hand*

I can't actually do my job if I don't code by hand. Mind you, I also work in that equally antiquated language of classic ASP so I probably either don't count or don't exist. Possibly both.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dejana
2010-03-09 09:53 pm UTC (link)
I still do it. If it ain't broke...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]beccastareyes
2010-03-09 02:11 pm UTC (link)
I remember trying to find a FORTRAN textbook that was recent enough to not include instructions for coding punch cards.

In fairness, this was only seven years ago -- the university library and my summer adviser were just slow to update. (But it worked for doing scientific coding, so I wasn't gonna complain.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]demonbean
2010-03-09 04:10 am UTC (link)
Although my surprise of the original article is dwarfed by the disbelief that’s now mounting. Are you telling me that you couldn’t forsee the snowball that “Rails also suffers because it is hard to decouple Rails code from page display code” would create?!

Yes, I like to add off-hand comments to my blog posts just in case people with different opinions happen to stumble upon the entry. "Latent trolling," they call it.


(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]dejana
2010-03-09 05:01 am UTC (link)
What really boggles me is the "I have to apologize for not catching trolling language in the original article" comment from the moderator(?). Expressing a professional opinion on the limitations of another programming language in a tech article is "trolling?" What kind of blog is this?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]felinephoenix
2010-03-11 10:40 pm UTC (link)
A blog whose readers get easily hurt butts, apparently.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]adevyish
2010-03-09 05:49 am UTC (link)
Oh, Rails fanatics *wipes tear*

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[info]kitt_in_socks
2010-03-09 08:16 am UTC (link)
This begs the question, of course: Would Hitler use Mac or PC?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]khym_chanur
2010-03-09 08:18 am UTC (link)
Relevant xkcd comic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]caffeine_fairy
2010-03-09 10:18 am UTC (link)
God I love it when geeks face off. It's so...grammatical.

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[info]mary_mac
2010-03-09 04:24 pm UTC (link)
I wish I could link you to the flamewar on my boyfriend's Linux list this week. A list to which a good half of the many programming firms in the city and all the staff of two universities are subscribed.

And someone posted a Windows job and it went 0-Godwins in just under 60 seconds and got on to Hemmingway shortly thereafter. And the boy and co-mod got very very drunk.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]jedi_dwh
2010-03-10 06:33 pm UTC (link)
Because when a user makes a comment about your language like "Rails also suffers because it is hard to decouple Rails code from page display code," the obvious solution is to bite their heads off. Instead of, you know, saying something like, "Actually, there's a pretty simple solution to that problem- here, let me tell you all about it!"

I've not used Ruby on Rails, though Ruby has a cute textbook involving cartoon foxes that is almost as awesome as The Little Schemer. I miss Scheme. Back in my day, we learned functional programming in Lisp, and WE LIKED IT. Now my company uses Python for everything, so I have to learn it properly. Alas.

Anyway, spats like these are hilarious until you get stuck in the middle of one. So I'll be avoiding a career of programming and training my way out of here and into the art department. Rock on.

(Reply to this)


[info]jupiterpluvius
2010-03-11 12:36 am UTC (link)
Seeing as I have seen an actual slapfight ensue at the Modern Language Association (on a panel about 18th century novels), this relatively sedate squabble does not raise my blood pressure by so much as a point.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]jaseroque
2010-03-11 01:54 pm UTC (link)
... wow... What was it over?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jupiterpluvius
2010-03-11 06:15 pm UTC (link)
I believe the stated cause was one fifty-something professor's disagreement with another fifty-something professor over the correct Marxist interpretation of Evelina by Fanny Burney. But I suspect there was a history of conflict between the two ladies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]felinephoenix
2010-03-11 11:42 pm UTC (link)
That right there is my favorite thing about (most) academic/professiona wank. It's always so polite... aside from the seething hate in between the lines of, oh, every paragraph.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]snarkhunter
2010-03-12 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Are you serious? OMG. Which MLA? (I mean, which year.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jupiterpluvius
2010-03-13 10:46 pm UTC (link)
1990 or 1991, I think.

It is part of why I decided not to be an English professor--I was a tender young graduate student then and it was all too terrifying.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mister_terrific
2010-03-11 09:34 pm UTC (link)
I confess to snickering because my Beloved Company uses an in-house Assembler-style language called RAIL to move our choo-choos. They're trying desperately to migrate to the web because the Wise Old Programmers who know RAIL and what those programs do are retiring, leaving the IT department at Shit Creek, NE.

As for old languages: COBOL, FORTRAN, PL/1, BASIC, MRCS, FOCUS are among the many languages I have used in my 28 years. PHP is a whippersnapper as far as I'm concerned.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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