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Entry tags:	knitting

KnitCamp 2010
I'd say something about how who would have expected that such a genteel and respectable pastime as knitting could generate drama, but I think everyone knows what a crock that is by now.

Recently, there was a large event called "Knit Camp" that was held on Stirling Campus in Scotland. It failed hard. We're talking 6.5 on the TwiCon Fail Scale here. In the interest of full disclosure, I have only the vaguest idea of what went on because I joined Ravelry a week or so after the debacle, and the Cult of Nice is strong on there, so I'm sure I've only accumulated a very small amount of the information that's out there.

Much of the drama happened on the Ravelry.com forums, and you need to be a member to read them, but it has open membership. Links that go to Ravelry.com threads will be denoted by an asterisk. (*)

Anyone with more information/links/screenshots, please let me know, and I'll add it to the post.

Our story begins sometime last year when (apparently) some people said they wished the UK would have a large Knit Camp, such as is apparently common in the US. (I'm a new, and rather hermetic knitter, so I have no idea if this is true.) A yarn shop owner, Jo Watson of the now defunct British Yarns, decided to try and make it happen. People were enthusiastic, and the KnitCamp was scheduled to take place at the University of Stirling in Scotland 9th August 2010 - 13th August 2010, with a "Ravelry Weekend" taking place after that.

The first hints of something going wrong was Ravelry "pulling out" - but I am foggy on how they could pull out if they had never given permission for KnitCamp to use Ravelry's name in conjunction with their event. I'm not sure if said "Ravelry Weekend" ever took place, or what it was supposed to entail.

Then quite a few instructors canceled, but their names remained on the list of tutors, leaving students confused about what would happen to their classes (many people had already prepaid by this time) and who, actually was supposed to be teaching.

However, any threads that even had a hint of dissatisfaction were ruthlessly locked and archived by Jo on the UK Knit Camp and Ravelry Weekend 2010 group* on Ravelry. People with concerns were dismissed as negative nellies who would hate anything no matter how awesome.

Why are you all being so MEEEEEEAN?*

Then the week of KnitCamp arrived. The tutors from North America did not. Well, they arrived, and were denied entry because Jo had not properly filed the paperwork to get temporary work visas for them*. But don't worry! Instead of working on sorting things out, she's reassuring everyone that A few of the people are here, really!* EVERYTHING IS FINE YOU GUYS.

Things went downhill from there, I'll let the links speak for themselves.

The full story from instructor Lucy Neatby, one of the instructors who was denied entry along with an abridged version Basically, final versions of contracts were not what had been agreed upon, and she has not been paid anything, and is not out-of-pocket for her flight as well.

Some instructors choose a more metaphorical way of communicating their dissatisfaction with what went down.

Someone who was, in my opinion, press ganged into being free labor writes about their experience.

8/11/10 blog post about not being able to attend the one class she signed up for, because of last minute schedule changes.

Series of posts on UK Knit Camp, again with the metaphorical photos.

What is amusing, however, is the about-face some of the KnitCamp boosters do when it becomes clear that they won't be paid for their time and expertise:

WoollyWormhead's immediate post-KnitCamp blogpost. ...and a decidedly less-than-happy post after it became clear there was no payment forthcoming.

Hooray! I loved teaching at KnitCamp! Not enough to do it for free, though!

And what was our intrepid organizer doing while all of this was going down?

She took a vacation. Afterall, bilking people out of their money and time is hard work, y'all.

She also got her nanny or someone to post about how all of the negativity surrounding the event is affecting Jo's health!*

When the above accounts from the tutors came out, people were of course appalled. And everyone knows that the solution to your money disappearing is to send more money to someone you know online who SWEARS it is a charitable collection for the tutors who weren't paid for KnitCamp. Despite the fact that we have no way of knowing who was paid what.*

However, recently some people have been getting "paid", for a certain value of "legal tender" in some cases, which makes one wonder if it was really a scam all along, or just incredible shortsightedness about what actually has to be organized for an event like this to be successful.

Please accept this token of my appreciation for the time and labor you gave me.

Refunds in yarn?

Oh, another good way to find wankery is to look at all of Jo's old posts on Ravelry.*

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kookaburra
2010-10-23 08:43 pm UTC (link)

Red Heart is actually a huge brand. It's mostly known for the "super saver" skeins where you can get a metric shitload of yarn for cheap, and if a supermarket, walmart, or Target has yarn, it will most likely be Red Heart. However, if you point out anywhere on Ravelry that you get what you pay for with yarn, a whole host of people who only use RH will descend upon you for daring to insult the yarn that their granny made their favorite blankie out of, and don't you know that some people can't AFFORD anything else, you horrible yarn snob.

Pointing out that you yourself use RHSS for certain projects will have no effect.

There's lots of talk about "yarn snobs" on Ravelry, but the wankiest people I've come across are ones that are loudest about how cheap their yarn is. It's baffling.

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feenix
2010-10-23 08:55 pm UTC (link)

Ah. See, I actually ended up making the same assumption about yarn snobs, which was why I made that (horribly wrong) guess!

(I should disclose that - as should have been obvious from my initial comment - I know JACK SHIT about knitting. I should also disclose that I've never even noticed yarn in any of the big-box stores around me, and I'm from New Jersey, so that's also a sign of how obtuse I am.)

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	feenix 2010-10-23 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	(the assumption that yarn snobs would be wankier than people using the cheap stuff, that is) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kookaburra
2010-10-23 09:04 pm UTC (link)

Oh, the yarn snobs can be wanky too, but for sheer volume of wanky text you can't beat the anti-snobs. I've seen people accused of wanting to BAN acrylics/Red Heart, of making the leap "you said the yarn I use is x and y, therefore you just said MY PROJECTS ARE X AND Y!" (where x and y equal negative adjectives). The latter I've seen in threads about all sorts of fiber, whether it's $1.99/skein or $100.00/skein.

Basically, anywhere you get people pinning their identity on the type of yarn they use, you get outraged wankery. Who knew?

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theelusiven, 2010-10-24 09:57 pm UTC

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kookaburra, 2010-10-24 10:21 pm UTC

	xero_sky 2010-10-23 10:16 pm UTC (link)
	RedHeart is one of the reasons I didn't take up knitting earlier. That stuff is everywhere, and I hate the way most of it feels in my hands. I didn't realize this also makes me a snob. Bonus! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chibikaijuu
2010-10-25 05:35 am UTC (link)

I honestly think this is what turns a lot of (often young) first-time knitters and crocheters off the craft - someone hands them a skein of RHSS and has them knit a hideous wobbly garter-stitch scarf in an awful color. I don't understand why people don't just teach both knit and purl right off the bat - when I finally learned to knit I was taught both and was happily messing around with ribbing by the end of the day - it felt like I'd actually accomplished something (and also I think garter stitch is pretty much hideous).

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	kookaburra 2010-10-25 05:58 am UTC (link)
	Garter stitch doesn't even have to be wobbly, but no one ever tells new knitters to slip the first stitch as to purl with the yarn held in front on each row. (It creates a lovely straight edge that looks like it's braided). Such a simple maneuver that makes a huge difference, esp. on garter stitch borders. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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chibikaijuu, 2010-10-25 06:11 pm UTC

attilathebun
2010-10-25 08:21 pm UTC (link)

Having seen this happen, I completely agree. It's why I've gotten in the habit of starting off with (for nearly everyone who's asked me to teach them) a hat. Useful, the new knitter learns knitting, purling, and decreasing right off the bat, and it's a project that they can have finished and on their heads in a day or two, long before they get discouraged at the seeming endlessness of the project.

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	snarkhunter 2010-10-25 12:49 pm UTC (link)
	I agree. It's so...cheap-feeling. And I use cheap yarns all. the. time. Just not that shit. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	perletwo 2010-10-27 01:47 am UTC (link)
	The joke on a knitting mailing list I used to be on is that you use red heart to knit up your own brillo pads. :P (Reply to this)(Parent)

	txvoodoo 2010-10-23 10:44 pm UTC (link)
	Hee! I use RHSS for things for my dogs, since they'll basically ruin it eventually anyway. BUT, I dislike working with it, as it makes my hands hurt. Much prefer soft cottons! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

risha
2010-10-23 11:39 pm UTC (link)

That's my problem with it too! I never thought I cared much about yarn quality, until I tried out knitting and ended up with it in my hands for hours on end. Acrylics hurt, and RH is the worst of those. (Not a yarn snob, for the record - I'm just saying that it hurts my hands, not that people shouldn't use it if theirs are fine with it. Who the hell has the money for $50 yarn to use on minor projects, if they don't have to?)

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	txvoodoo 2010-10-24 12:00 am UTC (link)
	Exactly! And RHSS has another benefit - it holds its shape well when you're testing out new stitches. Of course, it holds it so well that it has no "flow", if you know what I mean! But it's great for testing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	eleutheria 2010-10-24 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	Where does Lion brand fall on this continuum? My only handknitted object is a shawl made by a friend from Lion brand Homespun, because I'm allergic to wool. She let me pick the yarn, and that was really pretty. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kookaburra
2010-10-24 10:17 pm UTC (link)

Lion Brand is another staple yarn, they are often found in big box stores and large chain craft stores too, but have a wider range of products - I haven't used them much so I can't say much about the quality, but I did make a scarf out of Lion Brand Wool-Ease, and it was very nice for the price - fuzzier than I usually prefer to work with, but workable, and my scarf is nice and warm and machine washable. They have some 100% wool/other natural fiber yarns along with a wide range of synthetics. However, just recently (apparently) they moved their manufacturing overseas and I've been hearing some rumbling about their quality taking a nosedive. :(

On the continuum, I'd say Lion Brand is at the upper end of the budget/economy part of the yarn spectrum, going purely by price.

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seasleepy
2010-10-25 04:12 pm UTC (link)

A bunch of people haaaaaate Homespun, because a) it's bad to learn on (and tends to be in stores where beginning knitters would be buying yarn) because it's so fuzzy (you can't see what you're doing), it's easy to accidentally split, and it's really hard to knit if you knit it tightly (as new knitters often do), b) it's acrylic, fuzzy soft acrylic, but still acrylic, c) it tends to worm (bits of the yarn slide around in the knitted item so you have little loose patches and then little tight patches), and d) a lot of people try to make things out of Homespun that should not be made out of Homespun. On the other hand, their colorways are generally pretty, it is pretty soft, a lot of people don't have problems working with it, and if you pick the right project, it will look just fine.

People also haaaaaate Fun Fur (feels horrible, instantly makes anything look like a skinned Muppet).

Lion Brand also gets some blanket disapproval because you can often get better yarns for similar prices from actual yarn companies/stores. On the other hand, you can't get those better yarns at your local Craft Barn or SuperMart, so they do also make decent yarn available if you need it immediately, or for those that can't/won't order yarn online, or for areas without a yarn shop.

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	seasleepy 2010-10-25 04:31 pm UTC (link)
	Just want to note: I'm really not as much of a yarn snob as this comment makes me sound, seriously. This is just the attitudes I've noticed from folks. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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kosaginolegion, 2010-10-26 10:51 pm UTC

chibikaijuu
2010-10-25 06:18 pm UTC (link)

I kind of adore Fun Fur just because people hate it so much. I wouldn't make anything serious out of it, but I crocheted a scarf out of a rainbowy colorway (which hilariously came out in a check pattern) that I kind of adore because it is so ridiculous. It's also really warm, if not in any way sophisticated. I wore it over my face at a Project Chanology protest (along with a teal hoody and sunglasses) just because the combination is so blinding.

Lion Brand isn't terrible, but there are definitely better yarns for similar prices. (I don't really understand not ordering online at all, because that's how I get awesome sale prices, but some people won't do it, so Lion it is.)

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	kelmendi 2010-10-31 01:08 pm UTC (link)
	...instantly makes anything look like a skinned Muppet. I thought that was a selling point? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snarkhunter 2010-10-25 12:47 pm UTC (link)
	It's a kind of weird snobbery--like scorning anyone who ever buys a garment new or something. Also, I'm cheap, fairly poor, and a crocheter, and I buy all my yarn at places like Jo-Ann and Michael's and AC Moore, and even I don't use Red Heart. Hmph. (Walmart actually has a fairly wide yarn selection.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kookaburra 2010-10-25 05:23 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, there's sooooo many better acrylics out there for comparable prices. Caron is my go-to acrylic brand, especially Simply Soft. I just finished an afghan in it, actually. (Reply to this)(Parent)

chibikaijuu
2010-10-25 06:28 pm UTC (link)

I really dislike acrylic in general (I find it uncomfortable, it doesn't breathe well, I hate the little plastic filament fuzzies, and there never seems to be any nice depth or sheen to it) but I've handled (though never worked with) some Caron and Bernat that's pretty touchable. It does have the advantage of being, well, plastic, and washable and dryable, and you don't have to worry about dye lots so much.

It's like buying the cheapest possible yarn is a source of pride for some people. I can kind of understand it as a backlash against classism in perceived yarn snobbery, but it goes way beyond that for some people.

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	perletwo 2010-10-27 01:53 am UTC (link)
	I'm working right now with Naturally Caron Spa, 75% acrylic 25% bamboo, and it's really pretty soft and drapey. It still has that unbreathing quality of an acrylic, but it is making up into a garment-quality fabric. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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chibikaijuu, 2010-10-27 05:45 am UTC

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tephra, 2010-10-27 02:52 pm UTC

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chibikaijuu, 2010-10-27 05:17 pm UTC

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tephra, 2010-10-27 05:28 pm UTC

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chibikaijuu, 2010-10-27 07:12 pm UTC

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tephra, 2010-10-27 08:45 pm UTC

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kookaburra, 2010-10-27 07:58 pm UTC

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tephra, 2010-10-27 08:48 pm UTC

	tachikoma01 2010-10-27 07:23 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, so knitting is EXACTLY LIKE the Asian Ball Joint Doll fandom, complete with a cult of nice and the loudest wankers being the ones complaining about how they're OMG PERSECUTED for having cheap dolls. (Four or five years ago, the people with the high-priced dolls wanking about those OMG CHEAP KOREAN dolls was the wank du jour. Not anymore.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kookaburra
2010-10-27 07:36 pm UTC (link)

It's the same way in the knitting vs. crocheting wars. Now, I consider myself mainly a crocheter, so it's not pro-knitting bias saying this, but in any thread where someone talks about being insulted for being a crocheter and not a knitter, 5% of responses will be from knitters saying how horrible that is, we're all yarnies together, and then 95% will be other crocheters talking about how the whole craft world is against them, pulling stats and anecdata out of their collective arses to make knitting vs. crocheting a matter of class warfare and racism.

I swear to Hera I am not making that up.

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chibikaijuu, 2010-10-29 01:11 am UTC

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