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Hexnut ([info]tunxeh) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2010-12-04 15:54:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:academia

#AAAFail
War between anthropology-as-science and anthropology-as-literary-theory continues, news at 11.

The short version: Anthropology has long been split between people who consider themselves scientists (they are using falsifiable hypotheses and empirical data to learn facts about how people behave) and people who feel that postmodern literary theory is a better way to approach the subject in a way that is conscious of one's own cultural biases. The scientists call the literary theorists "fluff-heads" while the literary theorists call the scientists as shallow as pro wrestlers. The American Anthropological Association (generally considered to be on the anthropology-as-literary-theory side of the fence, but still playing an important role in the rest of anthropology as the host of the annual academic-job-seeking process) recently amended their mission statement in the anti-science direction. Or rather, they wrote a new "long-range plan" that differs from their previous mission statement in the important sense that it can be approved by the executive committee without an actual vote of the membership.

As some Iain M. Banks fan writes: "I thought it was pretty telling that the AAA's move was not to make the statement more inclusive or add language clarifying that nonscientific inquiry was also valued. It was just to delete science."

There's a lot of self-important posturing and other forms of wanking on all sides, on the blogs and (of course) on twitter. This post has quite a few more good links.

Disclaimer: anthropology was my worst subject in college, and I haven't paid much attention to it since. I know which side of this debate I'd stand on, but I'm woefully underinformed.



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[info]spawn_of_kong
2010-12-05 01:14 am UTC (link)
See, because of my interest in paleontology, whenever I think "anthropologists," I think "those scientists that dig up fossil hominids," rather than the broader definition of "scientists that study people."

Either way, to me it's always been a science. This is the first time I've heard of it being seen as literary theory.

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[info]hurricane
2010-12-05 01:37 am UTC (link)
Same here, and my dad's an archaeologist. He's definitely a scientist!

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[info]ravenscanary
2010-12-05 01:45 am UTC (link)
Honestly, since "the reflexive turn" in anthropology in the past few decades, anthropology-as-science is dying. And the critical cultural theorists are cheerfully dancing on its grave. And I'm almost glad because they're so reactionary and stupid, even though I'm much closer to the scientists than the critical scholars.

Meh. I'm a media theorist who does quantitative research, and this past semester I've taken a course in a cultural studies department to broaden my theoretical knowledge, and it's agonizing to be sneered at so consistently by fellow grad students who have been suckled on the idea that science can't possibly be self-aware enough or anti-colonialist enough not to just be there to be critiqued.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keri
2010-12-05 01:47 am UTC (link)
I've always seen it as literary or scienceish depending on the sub-discipline. Cultural anthropology, particularly that which studies folklore and mythology? Probably more like a literary thing (or, perhaps, sociological?). Linguistics that studies how we speak and how our brains process language and all that? sciencey.

I guess I can see the benefits of both types of study applied to the different disciplines within anthropology. I'm an English major myself, but if I'd been smarter going into school, I'd be an anthropologist studying folklore. OMG, I wish I were smarter when I started school. I would love to be an expert on some bit of folklore that no layperson would ever think of as "folklore" (because it's not a fairy tale, of course). Or, you know, what my dream job has been since high school: researching links between transmission of folk practices (music, stories, art, clothing design, food...) and exchange/evolution of language between different communities.

Instead, I studied English, because everyone told me I should, and the university I ended up going to had a very limited anthropology program. (Mostly focused on archaeology, I think?)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2010-12-05 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-12-05 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2010-12-05 03:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-12-05 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mad_teacup, 2010-12-05 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-05 05:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2010-12-05 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2010-12-05 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2010-12-05 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melannen, 2010-12-06 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2010-12-06 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-12-05 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2010-12-05 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2010-12-06 03:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-12-06 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2010-12-07 09:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2010-12-06 03:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-12-06 06:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-07 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-12-07 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-07 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2010-12-08 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xturtle, 2010-12-05 06:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pulchritude, 2010-12-06 10:08 pm UTC

[info]veleda_k
2010-12-05 01:39 am UTC (link)
Oh, it's on now.

I've never encountered the literary theory school of thought before. The classes I was forced to take in college were all very sciency. (Totally a word.)

(Reply to this)


[info]notjo
2010-12-05 02:00 am UTC (link)
All I need now is someone from history to pop up and start complaining about how anthropology is ruining the discipline and my December is made.

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[info]magnolia_mama
2010-12-05 03:58 am UTC (link)
This historian will have to leave you disappointed, then - I deliberately chose anthropology as my cognate field (all the other medievalists in my department went for English or religion). It dovetailed perfectly with my thesis topic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]altoidsaddict
2010-12-05 07:35 am UTC (link)
I would, but I have too much ethnography to read.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]also_not_a_pipe
2010-12-05 04:15 pm UTC (link)
At the school I went to for undergrad, when I pulled from my reserve of ex-writing major pretentiousness at department meetings and went on about how history is really about people, it's stories, it's the whole big narrative of everything that's come before us instead of the stupid little trivia they teach in primary/secondary education, most everyone would nod their heads and say yes, that was Very Deep. But then, I was a huge snob while I was in undergrad and barely talked to anyone outside the professor's-favorites clique I ran with, so people may have objected to the study of people as part of history and I just sneered at them and forgot about it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]major_fischer
2010-12-05 05:43 pm UTC (link)
I would but I'm too busy trying to get into a multidisciplinary grad program where I have to be nice to the anthropologists. Though I will freely admit the worst book I've had to read in history grad school was an ethnography of developement.

And no, you can't write an "ethnography of developement". But some dear sole tried.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-05 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2010-12-05 06:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-05 10:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-12-06 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]libelle, 2010-12-07 08:47 pm UTC

[info]frequentmouse
2010-12-05 03:58 am UTC (link)
Jesus, nothing ever changes, does it? The department I did my undergrad work was full of SAS people, and the AAA-only people were pretty much a beleaguered minority. One reason I dropped out of grad school was that department was all AAA, all the time, and the cognative dissonance was killing.

Thirty-two years ago.

(Reply to this)


[info]mad_teacup
2010-12-05 05:14 am UTC (link)
I took anthropology in my first year of university and I actually really enjoyed the class (not the prof) and did well - I didn't even know this "literary theory" approach existed. I've always defined it as a science—maybe not a maths/physics science, but...I don't know if this is the right word...social science? Anyway, it wasn't "literary theory" that's for sure...bzuh what.

(Reply to this)


[info]evilsqueakers
2010-12-05 05:24 am UTC (link)
I just took Anthro in the past year, and you know, I noticed it was a lot more of the literary theory. I'm glad it wasn't sciencey, though. I suck at that stuff.

Chem and Bio are going to kill me in the next six months or so. I took Geology and Astronomy for a reason: easier on my brain.

Though I'm curious how my school's take will be since we seemed to avoid that sciencey bit. Granted, I was grateful. The first time I took Anthro, we spent 6 classes (3 weeks) on evolution. Unsurprisingly, I dropped the class.

But how do you study something without some kind of universal scientific guideline in understanding the anthropological impacts?

Ow. My brain hurts now.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]darksumomo, 2010-12-05 07:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 08:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2010-12-05 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2010-12-07 03:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-07 03:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2010-12-07 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-07 03:28 am UTC

[info]eisoj5
2010-12-05 05:42 am UTC (link)
Me and my colleagues are archaeologists or archaeological educators, and some of us (not me) are AAA members, and we're all kinda going "...BZUH?!" at this. Since, y'know, we do anthropological archaeology. And every time I teach this one class for our programs I go "...and we want you to think about archaeology as a science."

*boggles*

(Reply to this)


[info]braisinhussy
2010-12-05 06:01 am UTC (link)
I liked that this year's AAA meeting was in New Orleans. I ate well.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 08:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]papervolcano, 2010-12-05 12:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]braisinhussy, 2010-12-05 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2010-12-05 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2010-12-06 03:50 pm UTC

[info]darksumomo
2010-12-05 07:50 am UTC (link)
I posted the Inside Higher Ed article to [info]ontd_science here. I've decided discretion is the better part of valor and stayed out of the comments.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2010-12-05 08:13 pm UTC

[info]witty
2010-12-05 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Aw, I thought this would be car-towing wank.

I took one anthro course in college and it was about as hippy-dippy as one might hope to avoid. (Not even lit-theory, I mean, but seemingly geared toward students who still need their hand held through the idea that other people do things differently and that's Okay. Not even a 101 course! Grr.)

I know that anthro is one of those crazed underfunded subdisciplines in which people fight tooth and nail over the stupidest things in the world (ask me some time about how "archaology" and "archeology" are two different fields), but this strikes me as the kind of thing that gets everyone to laugh at you.

(Reply to this)


[info]bleurosez
2010-12-05 03:15 pm UTC (link)
This sounds like the qualitative/quantitative "divide" that gets debated in all social sciences. Is it too much to hope that people figure out that all methods are flawed to some degree and the best method is the one that best answers the question(s) you're asking?

The real wank comes in when you factor in the government, specifically the Department of Education, where the gold standard of research is quantitative. Or if you want to work outside academia and all businesses want are numbers to justify doing things a particular way.

(Reply to this)


[info]vanilla_tiger
2010-12-05 03:15 pm UTC (link)
This subject's lack of definition cuts both ways! /gratuitous Community quotage.

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[info]eldritch
2010-12-05 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Huh, and over here in Religious Studies we're used to being looked down upon as Anthropology's less scientific relative. So... go figure?

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[info]chaos_theory
2010-12-05 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Every time we get anthropology wank, I always wonder if other commenters are people I know! I have a fun couple weeks eyeing up everyone in my department suspiciously to see if they give away any hints that they might be fellow J_Fers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-05 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2010-12-07 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-07 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2010-12-09 03:16 am UTC

[info]wyf_of_bathe
2010-12-05 07:27 pm UTC (link)
Gah. I hate this. I have a BA in physical anthropology, and am pursuing my master's. The focus of my education has been primate skeletal biology, and I hope to specialize in bone pathologies. And that's... not science?

This reminds me of a furious debate I had once with a young physics student who told me anthropology is not a science. Her mistake was in assuming that cultural anthropology speaks for all divisions of anthropology. Apparently, the AAA makes the same mistake. Anthropology is not limited to studies of culture. Otherwise, I wouldn't have my degree.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2010-12-05 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wyf_of_bathe, 2010-12-06 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]coffee_mug, 2010-12-05 07:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loraineee, 2010-12-05 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magnolia_mama, 2010-12-05 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]irradiated, 2010-12-05 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-12-05 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-06 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]warrioreowyn, 2010-12-06 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]witty, 2010-12-06 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]warrioreowyn, 2010-12-06 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wyf_of_bathe, 2010-12-06 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2010-12-07 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waitwut, 2010-12-07 03:18 am UTC

[info]ladyvorkosigan
2010-12-05 08:04 pm UTC (link)
(So let me dust off my undergraduate degree in anthropology and spout undergrad-level opinions that are half a decade out of date for a while. Hey, as someone who didn't go onto grad school in the field, I pretty much have this and nitpicking museum exhibits.)

While simply deleting science seems like a pretty big mistake for all the reasons mentioned, one thing I really appreciate about the cultural anthropology classes I took in retrospect is that they didn't attempt to force every aspect of human culture into statistical models that were imposed on the subjects of study by the outside researchers. ::cough::sociologists::cough:: I mean, yes, I joke that I know nothing about statistics because anthropologists think statistics are a tool of the man, but the more I see how many other social science fields do it, the more I wonder if that's not kind of true.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-06 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-06 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2010-12-06 05:26 pm UTC

[info]shinga
2010-12-06 02:59 am UTC (link)
I just want to know what Dr Brennan thinks. ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-06 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-06 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goddessleila, 2010-12-06 06:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2010-12-06 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goddessleila, 2010-12-06 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-07 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]major_fischer, 2010-12-07 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2010-12-07 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaos_theory, 2010-12-07 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2010-12-10 03:04 am UTC

[info]snarkhunter
2010-12-08 02:32 pm UTC (link)
::sits quietly in the English professor corner, waving a tiny flag that reads 'Don't Ask Me About Postmodernism'::

(Reply to this)


 
   
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