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Wicked One ([info]visp) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2011-10-12 17:10:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:defensiveness ahoy, food, it's not easy wanking green, let them eat cake, otf_wank's thoughts on weight

The Serious Side of Salad
Once upon a time, someone in facebook posted a "Why Geeks Make Better Boyfriends" list. Britney St. Patience felt the need to point out its inaccuracies. She prefaces it with "Sure there are geek guys out there who are great partners. But being a geek does not guarantee that a guy will be a great boyfriend."

It's a pretty standard 'Nice Guy' deconstruction.

The main highlights are:

Myth #3: Geeks are low maintenance
Supposedly geek guys make great boyfriends because they can subsist on pizza, Mt Dew, and your affection. Just wait until you meet one who will ONLY eat pizza and maybe 3-4 other foods, like some sort of overgrown five year old. It took me nearly a decade to get my computer programmer ex husband to eat salad. My Star Wars obsessed ex boyfriend could not be taken to nice restaurants because he refused to wear anything except ripped jeans and nerdy tees and would not eat anything he could not pronounce. LOW MAINTENANCE MY ASS.


and

Myth #6: Geeks appreciate women
This one is, by far, my favorite geek guy myth. The myth of the guy who spent all of high school playing D&D but secretly wanting someone to love and when he finally gets a girl he imprints on her and covers her in puppy-like devotion. OMG WHERE DO PEOPLE GET THIS SHIT? You know what really happens when guys don't get laid in high school or college and spend all their time reading coming books and filling their spank banks with Buffy the Vampire Slayer fanfic? They fill their little nerd brains with unrealistic expectations, waiting around for what one of my gamer friends calls a "magical pixie girl". An unattainably hot woman, who will love the nerd boy not in spite of his nerdiness but because of it and somehow his life will be transformed by her love. And he shall get a job. And he shall move out of his parents basement. And he shall cease to be whatever it is he dislikes about himself because the magical lady doth love him. But woe to any girl who does not live up to his fantasy. She will be treated with the same regard as yesterday's Mt Dew cans.


So, a little harsh, but all in all not a matter for anger, right? Wrong!


It gets posted to Metaquotes, and it starts to get weird.

First, the appetizer of rebuttals that only confirm the post.


The myth of the guy who spent all of high school playing D&D but secretly wanting someone to love and when he finally gets a girl he imprints on her and covers her in puppy-like devotion. OMG WHERE DO PEOPLE GET THIS SHIT?"


They get it from reality. That described me perfectly. It happened. It still happens. She completely ripped out my heart and shit in the hole eventually, and I got over this pattern... but it happens. That's where people get the idea.

The OP is demanding, high maintenance, dissatisfied with all the men out there... and yet continues to put herself into relationships with people SHE DOESN'T LIKE in some misguided attempt to make them into something she does like.

Of course it doesn't work, millions of people can tell you that (and probably did), and now she's bitter as a result of her mistakes, and is shifting the blame onto a large and diverse demographic that, in the aggregate, does NOT actually fit all the stereotypes she is perpetuating about them.


But then Candidgamera shows up and he Does. Not. Like. Salad.

If the girl I was dating was bizarrely fixated on me eating a salad, it wouldn't take me ten years to dump her sorry ass.

Making your husband eat a salad makes you a controlling harpy.

What follows is an extended debate over whether asking your spouse to eat salad is controlling, an act of deepest love for your dearest one, or something in between. Over salad.



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 02:53 am UTC (link)
I was expecting fail from this, but not so quick or in this form.

OP might want to warn for anorexia type triggers, in the wank and in these comments, come to think of it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]keleri
2011-10-13 03:00 am UTC (link)
Ack! Please allow me to apologize. :( Could you tell me about my failure a little more specifically? I will try not to be that person in the future.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-10-13 03:04 am UTC (link)
I'll just leave this link here: http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/eat-food-stuff-you-like-as-much-as-you-want/

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]keleri
2011-10-13 03:09 am UTC (link)
Thank you for this, I come from a bit of a troubled background where food is concerned, so I appreciate the reeducation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-10-13 03:10 am UTC (link)
Every one of her posts is pure awesome, and I recommend all of them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 03:21 am UTC (link)
I love the Fat Nutritionist so hard.

Cool story, bro, but before I started reading her stuff I was so torn up about what I eat being healthy enough (when I didn't like healthy food and can't really afford it) that I'd end up starving myself until I was so bad off I'd eat anything just to feel better. The entire notion of having permission to eat what I want made my eating habits so much healthier.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-10-13 03:35 am UTC (link)
She is so awesome. And she points out that your body can balance nutrition over years, so it's not necessary to worry about day-to-day 5 or 7 or whatever fruits and vegetables when those things are fucking expensive and you have more important things to worry about, such as being able to afford enough palatable food in the first place.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

ridiculously missing the point! XD
[info]pantyless_angel
2011-10-18 08:46 pm UTC (link)
I just want to say, I would love to dive into a vat of Twinkies. I wouldn't eat any of them, I don't actually like Twinkies that much. Twinkie swimming however, I am totally for that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: ridiculously missing the point! XD
[info]bacon_lover
2011-10-20 06:24 am UTC (link)
Ever since The State, I've really wanted to get $240 worth of pudding.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rosehiptea
2011-10-13 03:17 am UTC (link)
Since you asked, speaking for myself, the "Wiifit hurt their feelings" thing? That bothered me. Unless they actually said that. If they don't want to use a Wiifit it's their business.

Also actually you do have to respect their bodily autonomy. That's not in and of itself a bad thing.

Also speaking for myself, I don't think it's evil and wrong to be concerned for your friends and their health choices. But the way you phrased it, yeah, not working with me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]keleri
2011-10-13 07:12 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for taking the time to educate my ignorant ass. Let me again offer my apologies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2011-10-13 07:24 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for being willing to listen to people about this.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 03:18 am UTC (link)
Well, for starters, there's no such thing as "Eating to death." Making someone's eating habits an almost suicidal thing is just...I'm sorry, but it's really awful. People eat poorly all the time, but that doesn't necessarily lead to death, and when it does it's only one contributing factor. It's certainly not that they're intentionally disregarding their immediate health, or are doing something that is guaranteed to make them sick. Eating poorly is just something people tend to do throughout their lives, and won't necessarily cause anything. Diabetes, heart disease, and the other ailments connected with fatness are highly genetic (as is fatness), for example. Lots of people who eat healthy are pre-diabetic, and worse they/their doctors don't pay as much attention because people assume it doesn't really happen to skinny people or people who eat well.

BMI is actually a crock of shit, and calling someone obese is hurtful to a lot of people. I'm pretty good about body acceptance and I don't think I could deal well with the WiiFit going, "Hey, remember you're fat?" every time I use it. It's a painful reminder that you suck, and associating that with exercise is no way to get healthy.

Finally, even if you don't agree with me on the healthiness of being fat or eating poorly, your comment just came off as so judgmental. And maybe you're that judgmental towards people who smoke, or drink, or do drugs, (or hell, chronically dieting, since that's also related with all the unhealthy stuff that supposedly comes from being fat) which are all about as unhealthy as being fat and eating poorly without being related to something you have to do to keep alive.

I direct you to the Shapely Prose archives for further information on fatphobia and fat shaming.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]ekaterinv
2011-10-13 03:22 am UTC (link)
Actually, being fat is not in and of itself unhealthy, unlike cigarette smoking. Not that we have any right to judge people who choose to do the latter, either, just that they belong in different categories. Also, there are a lot of tried and tested and proven to work methods of quitting smoking. There are zero tried and tested and proven methods of making fat people into thin people.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 03:30 am UTC (link)
Oh, for sure. I don't mean to say that being fat is necessarily unhealthy, I don't think it is and I think most of the correlations found are likely because fat people also tend to be people who diet/have dieted a lot, just that people often tend to get judgmental over being fat or eating unhealthy, while forgiving other habits that are more likely to lead to health problems, but also don't involve just existing (for fat people) or eating (since you have to eat, regardless). Whereas drinking a lot is completely normalized, especially for younger people, but can lead to alcoholism, liver problems, etc.

I just wanted to avoid an argument of, "But being fat is so unhealthy!" by watering down my disapproval.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]ekaterinv
2011-10-13 03:40 am UTC (link)
Totally understandable. I've had that argument so many times -- it's exhausting. And my mom believes all the evidence I send her, and vows to stop obsessing over her weight, but then goes right back to it again. At least I got her and her husband to stop talking about other peoples' weight by taking very serious offense when they told me they were worried about my fiance's weight and couldn't I do something about that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]meagenimage
2011-10-13 03:38 am UTC (link)
I realise I have no place to talk here, so I'm just going to link the blog of a fat-positive feminist who decided to go on a diet because I think she makes some good points.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]ekaterinv, 2011-10-13 03:41 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]meagenimage, 2011-10-13 03:51 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]ekaterinv, 2011-10-13 04:05 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-13 04:13 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]ekaterinv, 2011-10-13 04:16 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-13 07:49 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 04:16 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-13 07:43 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]meagenimage, 2011-10-13 12:49 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 05:13 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]herongale, 2011-10-13 09:57 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 11:58 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]ekaterinv, 2011-10-14 02:25 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]herongale, 2011-10-14 03:14 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]flowerstar, 2011-10-17 05:07 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-17 07:04 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-17 07:04 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]beccastareyes, 2011-10-13 02:26 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]franzen, 2011-10-13 04:32 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 05:32 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]franzen, 2011-10-13 09:05 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 05:06 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]beccastareyes, 2011-10-13 05:22 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 05:31 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2011-10-14 01:37 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-10-13 06:15 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 06:26 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]tofuknight, 2011-10-13 06:54 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-10-13 07:27 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]zara_zero, 2011-10-13 10:43 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]moonjaguar, 2011-10-14 06:52 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]frequentmouse, 2011-10-19 01:55 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]anthologia, 2011-10-13 07:26 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]risha, 2011-10-13 11:41 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-14 12:01 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]anthologia, 2011-10-13 07:39 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]franzen, 2011-10-13 09:07 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]anthologia, 2011-10-13 11:33 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]maev_connacht, 2011-10-17 08:28 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]anthologia, 2011-10-17 10:36 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-10-13 05:55 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]visp
2011-10-13 03:55 am UTC (link)
If we're having an OT thread, I might as well point out that our bodies evolved to function on diets of meat and berries, maybe a few grass seeds, and to fend off famine on that diet while also constantly performing manual labor. Then grain comes along and before our bodies can really evolve to work with this, all of a sudden our food options get crazy like woah, there's tons of it, all sorts of weirdness that we weren't used to using as fuel, and most of our lifestyles no longer include manual labor.

Now, if you want your body to function more or less how it's built to, you have to try and replicate the effects of an entirely extinct way of life. A lot of people just want to live their lives normally, and realize that they don't have to outrun a sabertooth tiger anymore, even if their body still kinda thinks it should.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 04:24 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-13 04:50 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]jaythenerdkid
2011-10-13 04:52 am UTC (link)
Um...

...Increased peripheral vascular resistance? Higher lipid levels leading to arteriosclerosis? Increased pressure on your heart (due to aforementioned peripheral vascular resistance) leading to cardiomyopathy?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]ekaterinv, 2011-10-13 05:12 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]jaythenerdkid, 2011-10-14 12:14 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]franzen, 2011-10-13 02:08 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]jaythenerdkid, 2011-10-14 12:19 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]sandglass, 2011-10-13 05:08 pm UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]jaythenerdkid, 2011-10-14 12:23 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]frequentmouse, 2011-10-19 02:04 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]jaythenerdkid, 2011-10-19 02:10 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]frequentmouse, 2011-10-19 04:05 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]jaythenerdkid, 2011-10-19 05:22 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness... - [info]visp, 2011-10-19 06:57 am UTC
Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]keleri
2011-10-13 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Thank you, I'm really trying to work on my fatphobia and unfortunately I've gone and been a giant asshole right at the beginning of the process. I really appreciate your response and I really, truly apologize for my amazingly shitty comment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 11:59 pm UTC (link)
Shapely Prose is a great place to start, especially the FAQ page, "But Don't You Realize Fat is Unhealthy?.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Sorry for getting all unfunnybusiness...
[info]argylespy
2011-10-17 06:35 pm UTC (link)
I realize I'm way late to the party, but I just wanted to give a hearty HEAR HEAR!

It's been so frustrating the few times this discussion's come up with my mother (a nurse, mind you). When we found out that she had diabetes all of a sudden she was on my case to start losing weight lest I magically catch it from my diabolical disease-causing fat; completely ignoring the fact that it hasn't shown up on any blood test I've had in recent memory and, oh yeah, there are at least two other members of her immediate family that are also diabetic and, thus, any weight I may or may not lose isn't going to help since the genetic factor is the strongest one we know of. And don't even get me started on when my doctor called me in to talk about my cholesterol levels. No one's claiming that I'm anywhere near an "ideal" weight for my height and body type or that I'm even close to being in shape, but while I do eat larger portions than I should, it's usually what is considered healthy foods -- fruit, veggies, lots of veggies, I love veggies -- and cholesterol (as far as I'm aware) hasn't really been a problem in my family. Yet I still had to sit through at least a week of my mother "making sure" that I'd heard the doctor right when he said that my cholesterol was low.

I feel like that's where a lot of the misconceptions come from; people throw around terms like "proportion" and "balanced diet" and they think it means the size of the serving when, in fact, its more about the ratio of different categories of food to the rest of the food you're eating. That "balanced diet" refers to balancing the different nutritional values in the meals you're eating so you're not eating too much high-cholesterol foods or high-protein or too little, because complications can arise if you do. Even if you were lucky enough to have had a perfectly slim physique passed down to you as opposed to those of us who come from 50% naturally stocky ... stock.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]phosfate
2011-10-13 04:13 am UTC (link)
Short version: bodily autonomy -- not just for people you approve of.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]visp
2011-10-13 03:08 am UTC (link)
Can do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-10-13 03:25 am UTC (link)
Thanks kindly, I know some people can get really upset by diet/calorie/whatnot talk.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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