virago
2004-02-18 04:16 pm UTC (link)

And for once, it is not coming from what's his face with the Luna icon.

Dang. It's rather restrained, although personally "if you don't love it and think it's the funnest thing ever, you must think it's horrible and dirty" false polarity is irritating.

(Though wtf is this "glow" thing? That's such a huge cliche, and I still have no idea what he, or anyone else who says this, is yammering about.)

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rann
2004-02-18 04:18 pm UTC (link)

Eh, I dunno, I don't think Serai1 was going to that extreme, because kibbles did seem to be saying "No, it's not possible to enjoy that!" I think the "How can you think that's weird?" is a bit much, but serai1 doesn't seem to be STARTING from a position of "If you don't like it you suck!"
Well, that's my take on it... I'm tired and in pain, my judgement may be off. n.n;

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virago
2004-02-18 06:07 pm UTC (link)

*rereads thread*

I didn't mean that part, what irks the hell out of me is this line:

>>Sorry, but it's really true that not everybody finds the process disgusting and awful.>>

Which is a true statement, but nobody was even saying that it WAS disgusting and awful, which means there's jumping to conclusions going on. Straw man, I guess. Errr, woman.

Bah, anyway. Yeah, it is bad all around.

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	Re: rann 2004-02-18 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	Probably a little more jumping ahead some than straw man, since there did seem to be a bit of the "Ewww, birth is GROSS!" going on there, but jumping the gun's still jumping the gun. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rann
2004-02-18 04:16 pm UTC (link)

I kinda think serai1 has a slight point... I mean, unless the women are being forced at gunpoint to do fellatio while giving birth or something like that, what's the big deal? I mean, it's kind of weird and certainly not something I would go for, but going "OMG no I find that gross and horrible so no one could possibly like that because I know I wouldn't and so it's obviously COMPLETELY WRONG!" is, indeed, hopping in the judgemental pond and adding your own couple of degrees of warmth.

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	moonjaguar 2004-02-18 04:23 pm UTC (link)
	"Um, your daddy performed cunnilingus on me so you'd pop out easier." Call me a prude but I'm wondering how someone can lick someone's twat while there's all that screaming, sweating, writhing, potential poopage, blood and other goodies associated with childbirth. Wonder if there's a new niche on the horizon-- labor and delivery porno. (Reply to this)(Thread)

rann
2004-02-18 04:33 pm UTC (link)

Heh... reminds me of a funny story of what supposedly went on in the DBZ manga when Trunks was born. (Have not read those bits, certainly not untranslated, so cannot confirm, so this is all "supposedly".) Apparently Vegeta often refers to Trunks as "shithead". This is at first taken as just Vegeta being an asshole, but apparently there's a story behind it. Seems that when Vegeta drove Bulma to the hospital so she could give birth, she asked that the doctors give her an enema, so she wouldn't get any shit on the baby. Vegeta apparently found this really funny, and thus he calls his son "shithead".

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	sarajayechan 2004-02-18 07:10 pm UTC (link)
	Really? :o Wow. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2004-02-19 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	Uh I don't think so. That sounds more like some kind of joke. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rann 2004-02-19 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I did say "supposedly" a lot. n.n; There's a fair probability it's just a fan-rumor, much like the "Rally was meant to be gay" one, or the "Ukyo attempts to save Ranma and Akane's wedding from teh eval Shampoo" one, or all those mysterious super-secret volumes of the Sailor Moon manga and that "lost" season of the anime. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-19 11:33 pm UTC (link)
	Aah. nod (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2004-02-20 12:19 am UTC (link)
	True, I know that fansubers have a tendency to occasionally give some characters a 'potty mouth'. I'm guessing they're trying to convey the characters rude speech pattern. I've seen the cell Saga and halfway through the Buu Saga and Vegeta has never referred to Trunks as 'shithead'. Belted him across the face sure, but never that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-18 07:09 pm UTC (link)
	@_@ SCary thought. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	zannechaos 2004-02-18 04:43 pm UTC (link)
	I'm just waiting for all the Opedial complexes to start rolling in some 15-20 years down the road, personally. O_o (Reply to this)(Thread)

rann
2004-02-18 04:50 pm UTC (link)

*starts cackling as she remembers one particular episode of Frasier*
On a slightly OT note, that show is interesting in how it's viewed by various people... my rather anti-intellectual, "old school" grandparents view Frasier's father as the hero of the show, with how he always shows up his "foolish" sons. Whereas I tend to view Frasier and Niles as the sort of "Charlie Brown" heroes, constantly taking abuse, some of it their own fault but a lot of it not.

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ailei
2004-02-18 05:52 pm UTC (link)

Actually, there is a great deal of validity in using orgasm during labour, particularly when the labour is stalled. In a hospital birth, when labour slows down they start you on a pitocin drip (if you're real lucky - too many times they just cut to get it 'over with' whether it's necessary or not). Pitocin is synthetic oxytocin. Oxytocin causes uterine contractions. Orgasm produces a flood of oxytocin in the blood stream that can naturally (and pleasantly) restart stalled contractions. So can extensively suckling or stimulating the nipples of the woman in labour, for the same reason. This is why very nearly the first thing a midwife will do is put the newborn to breast - the suckling causes a flood of oxytocin that helps the mother expel the placenta with greater ease, and helps her uterus start to contract back to its pre-birth state.

So...blood and poop (which happens actually fairly seldom - you generally feel like you NEED to defecate, but unless you're in a hospital strapped to a fetal monitor and hooked to an IV, you can just bloody well go to the toilet during labour if you need to) notwithstanding, it's not a bad plan. Defecation is only a real danger during a contraction, and if you're giving an orgasm chances are excellent that labour is stalled. Also, for the record, no midwife would allow a man to put his dick into his partner during labour if the amniotic sac is broken. Generally, we're talking fingers or, yes, tongues here.

Whew. Haven't been on that soapbox in a while.

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	sarajayechan 2004-02-18 07:13 pm UTC (link)
	Hm. I guess I just can't associate sex and childbirth. =P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: ailei 2004-02-18 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	Well, there IS the obvious cause/effect association ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-18 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	Aside from that. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

ataniell93
2004-02-18 10:33 pm UTC (link)

This is absolutely true.

It's that 'unassisted' thing that gets me. (This is like, really old news...) See, I had a pregnancy that went as wrong as it could possibly go, and if I hadn't been IN the hospital when the placenta tore loose, I'd be dead along with the baby. And yes, this was an awfully traumatic experience (it was ten years ago, so you don't need to send me five rounds of ***hugs*** or lots of private email about it gals), but I'm still glad I lived through it.

Now, what I had, they saw trouble coming--but there are other things that can go wrong during labour that can lead to exsanguination (i.e. bleeding to death so fast they can't stop it in time if they have to put you in a car and TAKE you to the hospital) that you won't see coming. So while I'm all for homelike birth centers and midwives, I don't get why anyone would want to give birth without a fully stocked operating room and emergency doctors in the same building. Just in case.

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musette
2004-02-18 11:03 pm UTC (link)

I feel completely the same way. I'm childless (and likely to remain so), but my mother was pregnant three times after I was born and only one of those resulted in a child that lived past the first year (my currently nine year old brother who is healty as a horse). Her pregnancy with me was 100% easy and normal, to the point that she was at work until 5:00pm and a Halloween party like three hours before she went into labour with me. Six years later she miscarried, and then six years after that she had another perfectly normal pregnancy that at the last minute went v. wrong and she ended up having the baby six weeks early and they were both in the hospital for two weeks. This all happened within /days/, she was completely healthy and fine, had great pre-natal care, etc before the point when she went into premature labour. You just /can't/ always know. Out of four pregnancies, my mom had two that were normal and fairly easy, and two that were extremely difficult, and they /alternated/. I can only imagine would could have happened without good medical care /on the spot/ in some of those situations.

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	eiviiaru 2004-02-21 10:58 pm UTC (link)
	I think this may be the first wank I've ever seen where Taxil was involved and not the wankiest party. That said, the entire "HOW COULD ANYONE LIKE THIS" thing sorta weirds me out -- if this works for people, it works for people, you know? (Reply to this)