![[icon]](http://www.journalfen.net/userpic/67365/9138) |
The HMS STFU - I am confused
|
| | Subject: | I am confused | | Time: | 03:41 pm |
|
| Regarding the Slytherinfen wank.
I was under the impression that there were a lot of people complaining about
the fact that Slytherins ran before the battle, and that Rowling failed to
redeem Slytherins, and the fact that Slughorn did fight doesn't mean
much. But apparently, they came back? I didn't see that. I went back to look and
this is what I found, and now I don't know whether I misunderstood the wank and
this is something that was clear to everyone but me.
This is what she said about Slytherins:
JKR: A part of the final battle that made me smile was
Slughorn galloping back with Slytherins, (SU: Yes!)
(JN laughs) but they’d gone off to get reinforcements first,
you know what I’m saying? But yes, they came back, they came back to fight, so I
mean- but I’m sure that many people would say “Well, that’s common sense, isn’t
it? Isn’t that smart, to get out, get more people and come back with them?”
I see that the SU person is saying yes, so I guess she got it. I didn't.
This is from DH UK edition, pages 587/8, just after Voldemort set Neville on
fire.
They heard uproar from the distant boundary off the school as what sounded like hundreds of people came swarming over the out-of-sight walls and pelted towards the castle, uttering loud war cries.
and then…
…and nearer and nearer thundered the reinforcements that had come from who knew where…
and then…
And now there were more, even more people storming up the front steps, and Harry saw Charlie Weasley overtaking Horace Slughorn, who was still wearing his emerald pyjamas. They seemed to have returned at the head of what looked like the friends and family who had remained to fight, along with the shopkeepers and homeowners of Hogsmeade.
So…those were Slytherins? Really? I just…I didn't
know! Did you know? Did everyone else know? Dude. It does make sense now. | comments: Poke a delusional shipper     |
| | This might be a case of "it was in the author's intent but it didn't make it onto the page". In the midst of everything else that was happening, I can imagine JKR forgetting to put the actual word 'Slytherin' into the text and thinking that people understand that the Slytherins came back. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I've been reading some discussion on the matter and apparently, no one did get it.
When I look at it now it does make sense. She says they returned -- it had to be Slytherins, so that bit would make me say that she just wanted to give us little hints instead of being explicit, but then again, in the interview she talks about it like it's common knowledge, and nobody contradicted her! So either she really did forget to write Slytherins instead of they or she is seriously overestimating her readers! :)
I just think it's hilarious, that after all the wank about it -- they were there, but NO ONE saw them!
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-04 10:39 pm (UTC) |
|
| Considering the amount of wank about how she "should have put it in the book" (not just the Slytherin things, but other stuff also) I'd say she did overestimate her readers. But, realistically, who else would the "they" that returned be? Just Charlie and Slughorn? Would they have been able to marshall that many reinforcements on their own in so short a time?
But, with this fandom, if she didn't list every single person in the mob and their individual contributions to the fight, many fans would not have been happy even if she did specify that the they who came back were the Slytherins.
Just imagine..."Sure, Blaise came back and killed three Death Eaters with his bare hands, but what about Milicent Bulstrode?" | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| You mean, how she also had to (in the books!) give every single character's sexual orientation?
Dude, if she did all that, there'd be no space left for the frakking story. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-05 10:36 pm (UTC) |
|
| Yes, apparently she should have included all of the pertinent details of every character upon their introduction.
The sorting ended with Blaise Zabini, a black heterosexual boy, being sorted into Slytherin.
"Dumbledore is mad, isn't he?" asked Harry. "Yes, and gay." said Percy.
Harry and Ron were sitting in their compartment on the Hogwarts Express when they were interrupted by a bushy haired girl named Hermione Granger. Ron fell instantly in love, but Harry felt nothing but platonic friendship for her.
"Who's the new Professor?" Harry asked. "Remus Lupin, a werewolf who is really gay but who is in denial. He will marry a convenient beard and have a child despite his obvious gayness." said Hermione. By the way, Harry still didn't like her romantically. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) analenna | | Subject: | LOL! | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-05 10:53 pm (UTC) |
|
| Ron fell instantly in love, but Harry felt nothing but platonic friendship for her.
BLASPHEMY!!!!!
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Okay, win. XD
Also, I sort of figured that "they" referred to the families of the Slytherins and stuff that Aberforth had mentioned, but I wasn't sure. Or maybe I thought it was just Charlie, Slughorn, and a bunch of random guys from Hogsmeade, and I'm hallucinating now. >.>; | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | At the time, it looked to me like Slughorn came back with all of these people but not the Slytherins. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | Exactly! I just can't remember what I thought about the They seemed to have returned bit. Who would return? The Slytherins were the only ones that left. Maybe I thought they were the underage people. Or that Charlie and Horace went to Hogsmeade to get a beer and now they came back. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| If the "they" was meant to indicate the Slytherins, the pronoun's antecedent is unclear like whoa. Because it pretty much does read like Charlie and Horace are the ones returning with reinforcements in tow.
I really hope this is fixed in the paperback edition, because I do not know a single person who thought that any Slytherin except Slughorn participated in the final battle. I thought they all left when McGonagall ordered them out and they never came back. (And I was annoyed to have a whole group of students -- children when sorted -- proved once and for all to be morally hopeless en masse.)
I'm going to go poll some coworkers now, just to see ... | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | ETA: My huge sample of two HP-fan coworkers were just as surprised as I was to hear any Slytherin students returned. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| And I was annoyed to have a whole group of students -- children when sorted -- proved once and for all to be morally hopeless en masse.
I know, and it turned out Rowling's plan for them was AWESOME (They've saved a LOT of people with that move!) just really, really vague!
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| It really is a pity, because now that I understand what happened, it really is a great moment, and important enough to the themes of the books that it should have been a memorable moment. But I put up a poll on my LJ, and while I don't have a lot of answers at this point, so far the best that can be said is that some people can't quite remember. The rest of us definitively had no idea it happened.
And all it would have taken was replacing that "they" with "the Slytherins." *shakes head* | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-06 03:38 am (UTC) |
|
| | I don't know, I would have thought that they would have left because they weren't sure what sort of ire they were going to earn from their classmates, and, thinking like Slytherins, what was going to happen they hung behind and died. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-11 12:15 pm (UTC) |
|
| I certainly read 'they' as 'Charlie and Horace'. But I have just checked it out, and found that *Charlie hasn't been mentioned before* - he couldn't 'return', because he wasn't in the castle in the first place. So I think it must mean 'They [Slughorn and the people who left with him, i.e. Slytherins] seemed to have returned at the head of what looked like the families and friends of every Hogwarts student who had remained to fight [including Charlie].'
Yes, she could have expressed it more clearly, couldn't she? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| That's surprising. I thought all the complaints about this were rather funny because it seemed so obvious to me. Slughorn and the Slytherins were the only ones who had left so, obviously, Slughorn and some of the Slytherins were the only ones who could return.
Maybe they will edit that in the next printing - change it to "Some of the Slytherins had returned" instead of just "They". | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | That's the way it looked like to me. I figured there had to be some Slytherins fighting in there but Harry just didn't notice or couldn't name them considering he doesn't even know a lot of the people in his own house. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Yeah, I had the same confusion when I heard that. The lack of non-Sluggy Slytherins at the battle was actually my one major complaint with conclusion of the book—I kept thinking, Jeeze, Jo, you couldn't have had two or three who nobody recognized hang out, looking embarrassed, while the rest of them slunk off behind Pansy?
I like the idea that she's presenting—of course the Snakes would wait until they were sure of being on the winning side. But it would have been nice actually to be told that in the book, ya know? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| But it would have been nice actually to be told that in the book, ya know?
Yes. I don't know what happened. It's not exactly minor, it was important to the whole Unity of Houses theme. It would be good if that could be added to later editions.
I just wish those three interviewers said something. They were all saying Yeah! Rowling obviously doesn't know that we don't know.
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Well, I'd be surprised if someone didn't tell her. ;-)
My guess? Either, as someone suggested above, she just got caught up in the story and forgot...
Or one of those helpful editors trimmed something s/he thought was redundant or unnecessary. ;-) | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| of course the Snakes would wait until they were sure of being on the winning side.
Or, rather than charge in headlong with no plan and no reinforcements, they make a tactical retreat until they can contact a bunch of experienced witches and wizards to help?
I suddenly pictured one of the underage Gryffindors jeering at the Slytherins' apparent cowardice, and one of them replying "Passages work both ways." | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| ...Huh, I didn't see that before.
Thought I'd see that on Wiki. Guess they missed it, too.
It would be nice to think there was some little bit of redemption there, but let's be realistic--most of the Slytherins were slimy spin-doctors.
...It's kind of a shame, but what can you do? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I'm glad to know she didn't intend to paint all Slytherins as weak and easily swayed to the dark side, actually. It just wasn't realistic to have an all evil House (or 99.5% evil, anyway).
At least we can find this spot in the text and figure out what she meant to put there. Now if she'd finally decide what Ron does for a living.... I love you, Jo, but you're making things quite confusing. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I tried, I really did, but the other people in it were too fucking annoying to stand. The one squealing girl? Ugh. I was reaching for something to stab my eardrum out with before I just gave up and turned it off.
Anyway, did she make a more concrete statement about his career path? All I heard on my flist was that it was more unclear than before. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Well, that's what transcripts are for. That squealing girl was annoying!
This is what she said about Ron:
Ron was really done with schooling. I think that it would be kind of tempting to go back just to mess around for a year and have a break, but he goes into the Auror Department. He's needed. Anyone who was in that battle the right side. Kingsley would want them to help clean up the- I mean anyone who's old enough to do it, who's over age, but Kinglsey would have wanted Ron, Neville, Harry, and they would've all gone, and they would've all done the job. And I think that would've been a good thing for them too, because to go through that battle, and them be relegated to the sidelines, I think they would've felt a need to keep going, and finish the job. So that would've have been rounding up the corrupt people who were doing a Lucius Malfoy, and trying to pretend that they really weren't involved.
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Now if she'd finally decide what Ron does for a living....
I think pretty much the entire fandom decided that first, he'd helped poor George at WWW for a while, getting him on his feet and all, and then went Auror-ing. Of course, it'd be nice if Jo herself told us EXACTLY what's the deal with this. I love Jo, but sometimes she confuses me with her own forgetfulness. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Actually, she did clear that up during the Q&A at the Toronto reading. Somebody who attended that one posted about it here. She told the audience there that, after Ron became an Auror, he moonlighted at the joke shop because George needed the companionship and Ron needed the money. So, he did both. Every other time she's talked about Ron's job, she's said he's an Auror.
I really wish they'd post the transcripts for all those readings. She revealed a lot more than the fact that Dumbledore was gay - we just don't have complete transcripts for all of them. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Oh! Damn, it's hard to keep up with all those interviews and readings (I found out that Cho married a muggle completely by accident). Thank you.
Ron's awesome. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
amxjm | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-05 06:04 am (UTC) |
|
| | Heh. I know you meant that you found that tidbit out by accident, but part of me was still wondering how Cho could accidentally marry a muggle. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| He is, isn't he? :D
After I found that one, I started searching for others. Haven't found anything else yet though. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I heard NOTHING about the Toronto reading until now. I'm so glad to see it confirmed that Ron is still indeed in the Auror department (instead of doing it temporarily and then going on to the Joke shop as some suspect after Pottercast, despite her MSNBC comments seemingly contradicting the idea). She'd said auror two out of three times so that was already feeling canon to me, but she'd never addressed her joke shop comment in conjunction with the Auror one so here we go. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| I just happened to see a comment from someone who attended that reading linked in another forum. And that makes me wonder how many other things she revealed during those readings that has been missed because there weren't any transcripts made available - except for Carnegie Hall.
Regardless, I'm glad I found it and I make sure to tell people about it anytime I see confusion about Ron's job. :D I'm so glad she cleared it up - even if I did stumble across it accidentally. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Oh.
Oh.
...OH.
So that was... oh. Wow. I haven't even noticed they'd come with reinforcements, what with all the confusion and excitement of that chapter (plus I was too damn emotional to notice anything small like that). That is awesome. I knew there had to be Slytherins there.
So are the Slytherfen going to reject that because it wasn't specifically stated that there were Slytherins among the reinforcements? That seems to be the attitude here. "If it wasn't in the books, it's not canon" and all that bullcrap. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| So are the Slytherfen going to reject that because it wasn't specifically stated that there were Slytherins among the reinforcements? That seems to be the attitude here. "If it wasn't in the books, it's not canon" and all that bullcrap.
Bahahahaha! I'd like to see that!
| | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
imp | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-04 11:30 pm (UTC) |
|
| I never really caught that...
I don't know if it was really the Slytherins or not, but I've decided that it was. Because that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I think it makes sence that JKR used 'they' rather then 'Slytherins', I have to keep reminding people that the POV of the books makes things very limiting for Jo since Harry doesn't know everybody and everything in the Wizard World, so the only people he would have immediately spotted and known in the mob would have been Charlie and Slughorn. JO knew they were the Slytherins all along, but since Harry wasn't friends with the majority of that house, he wouldn't have known them, so the use of 'they' makes more sence from Harry's POV.
| | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Subject: | Hmmm... | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-05 08:59 pm (UTC) |
|
| | I didn't catch that, but I just asked my mother and she was like, "Duh?' So apparently some people must have understood who they meant. I'm not going to complain about it, though. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-06 08:53 pm (UTC) |
|
| | That makes sense, actually. The Slytherins are the planning, sneaky sort... of course they'd make a strategic retreat and come back with the calvary. I think this may be a case of Jo's intentions not quite making it to the page, but that's fine... I'm glad to know that they didn't, in fact, just run for the hills. I never really thought they did... but still... confirmation is always nice. :p | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-09 10:19 pm (UTC) |
|
| | Though there is a later indication that the Slytherins came back- after the battle, when Harry goes to the Headmaster's Office. All the portraits applaud him, and Phineas Nigellus is pointing out that Slytherin house 'played its part.' I didn't think that could just refer to Slughorn, but I wasn't sure WHERE it came in... | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-10 01:02 pm (UTC) |
|
| | Well, it could also refer to Snape (and to Regulus, if Phineas knows about him). But certainly it makes *more* sense if Slytherin students were involved as well. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Subject: | OH. | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-01-10 12:25 am (UTC) |
|
| That makes so much more SENSE now. Even though Slytherin is my least favorite house, I was still unhappy they got the short end of the stick, considering house unity and all. Now it seems that I was just mistaken (along with 99% of the other readers. XD)
~Lucca-Majere on LJ | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
|
The HMS STFU - I am confused
|
|