The HMS STFU - Okay, what is it with Snapefen? View: Recent Entries. View: Archive. View: Friends. View: User Info. View: Website (JF-less sailor? Suggest a topic here!).

May 25th, 2008

[pyratejenni] Subject: Okay, what is it with Snapefen? Time: 04:19 pm

Marionros is unclear on who the hero of the series is. Fortunately, she got smacked down rather than cheered on. But seriously, what is it with Snapefen and their desire to completely whitewash Snape? Especially way-older-than-the-target-audience Snapefen?* *Actually, this could apply to Slytherfen and Malfoy apologists as well.

comments: Poke a delusional shipper

Comments:

baranduyn Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-25 10:49 pm (UTC)

Fortunately, she got smacked down rather than cheered on. My God, that's beautiful. And what she gets for canonically defining Harry then wondering why people see it that way. But seriously, what is it with Snapefen and their desire to completely whitewash Snape? Especially way-older-than-the-target-audience Snapefen?* Who knows? This infects every fandom I've seen, though. Male characters, female characters, doesn't matter. You get a bunch who 'understand' them better than the other fans, the author and God Almighty Him/Herownbadself and...they're off. And it's funny except when it's totally and completely not, see idiotic spewing all over potter_cliche for details. Maybe it's the bad boy thing. Really, maybe Rowling's right; it's women looking at someone who is absolutely NOT lifepartner material and thinking "The poor woobie! It's because nobody understands him like I do. I can fix him. I can rebuild him and then he'll be mineallmine." Perception. Projection. Nobody understands that shit, not even psychiatrists and psychologists. People get pissed off when someone comments "Projecting much?" but I've done it in every fandom. Once before muttering anyone who has a crush on Angelus deserves what they get. It's sadder in real life, though. Quite awhile ago I was discussing a mutual friend...okay, my friend, her acquaintance...with someone who was not getting it. He's a fun guy. In his own way he's a great guy as long as you don't expect him to morph into an uberwoobieemo guy. Which seems to be what she was expecting. Yeah, people can change. First they have to want to. Second they have to work at it. You can't fix people unless they're cooperating whole heartedly and enthusiatically. Unless it's their idea in the first place, for that matter. End game. So I defined him simply: he's the guy who picks you up at the pub and you go along with it because he is so very, very hot. He does you right all damn night long, right up to dawn. You wake up, he's gone, your wallet is empty, he's eaten half the food in your refrigerator and he's taken your car, likely to sell it so he can get a new tattoo. And you think "It was worth it." Because if that's not going to be your reaction...don't go there. If you're expecting him to morph into some emo guy by dawn by virtue of your hawt lovin'...damn straight don't go there. He is who he is. Love him as he is or don't bother. If he wants to change, he will, but hawt lovin' won't do it. Hundreds, possibly thousands have tried. Snape though...I wish he could become corporeal as Rowling wrote him and encounter his woobie brigade. My God, that'd be beautiful.

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dez_chan Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-25 11:50 pm (UTC)

Snape though...I wish he could become corporeal as Rowling wrote him and encounter his woobie brigade. My God, that'd be beautiful. THAT's why Snape had to die! Because otherwise he'd still be living in this world, and he'd hex the shit out of the Wizarding!paparazzi and Rita Skeeter and the like. He'd have been saved just to end up in Azkaban for something stupid! Heeeeeeeeee.

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baranduyn Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 12:49 am (UTC)

THAT's why Snape had to die! Because otherwise he'd still be living in this world, and he'd hex the shit out of the Wizarding!paparazzi and Rita Skeeter and the like. He'd have been saved just to end up in Azkaban for something stupid! Heeeeeeeeee. You know...I never liked Snape. But having him have to face the woobie brigade and/or the Slytherinfen or the Brides of Snape...by God, that's inhuman. Better he be spared. :D

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mcity Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 05:31 am (UTC)

I'm not sure. Harry is somewhat intelligent, but only nice and hardworking when he feels like it. At least, at school. The Snape thing is right out.

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arien Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 03:39 am (UTC)

As much as I like Hermione, I think Rowling lets her take over at points in the story so much that she doesn't let Harry and Ron really shine -- both of them are fairly intelligent on their own (and Harry is especially perceptive), but they don't really get to show it because Hermione does, like, everything for them spell-wise and is generally the infodump sort of character. I think that's why some readers see Harry as being somewhat lazy and unintelligent: I don't think he's either at all, but Hermione would outshine anyone.

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rose_tyler Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 06:01 am (UTC)

I would consider one of the flaws of the books that Hermione is an author's darling and it shows. When Harry or Ron do something stupid, they get called on it. Hermione... not so much. And there are a TON of times that Hermione is put in charge of something that Harry and Ron are more than capable of doing perfectly well. Of course she's still not movie!Hermione (ugh). I love Hermione and adore the books, but that is one of my peeves and I am noticing it more on reread.

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chibikaijuu Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 06:08 am (UTC)

Harry and Ron are sort of, well, normal. When they do their work, they can manage good grades and decent test scores. Hermione never struck me as all that terribly more intelligent than either of them, really - she does get things faster, but her grades and stock of knowledge are due primarily to throwing herself into studying far past what's required even for a stellar student. Now, she does it partly because she like learning things, and she's an intelligent, competent girl, but both Ron and Harry have intellectual strengths (Ron in particular is a competent strategist from a young age). But Hermione's "the smart one", so Rowling uses her as a source of plot-relevant info.

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vorpal_blade Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-29 05:00 am (UTC)

I don't know that I can agree with that. Yeah, Hermione is the infodump character (when it isn't Dumbledore) but that's because it would be boring to have a hero who sat around reading all of the time; when we do encounter Harry doing research it has to be done in an exciting (or at least not-boring) way, like when he gets caught trying to get into the Restricted Section in his first year. Or eating chocolate frogs and suddenly remembering what he read on the Dumlbedore Famous Wizards card. And ultimately, Harry is the hero because he has the nerve to put his life on the line and think of others before himself. Hermione also frequently puts too much faith in her own abilities and trips up because of it. In fact, because JKR makes her both flawed and a lot like herself, it's like she's dissing HERSELF when Hermione's hard work and research doesn't end up carrying the day, Harry's bravery does. Who the hell cares if the brave hero isn't a workaholic and doesn't have a genius IQ if he has the balls to give up his life for others? Oh, right, all of those A-type personalities who think the world should worship them for working 80 hours a week and having multiple Ivy League degrees. That's a classic sidekick character, not a hero; I find it laughable that anyone thinks Hermione "outshines" Harry because of these things.

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demiguise83 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 07:27 pm (UTC)

I don't think "canon" means what they think it means.

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rennyn_alerothi Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 12:36 am (UTC)

Having just seen this, that explanation is really the only one that makes sense to me, too. I think there just must be an entire contingent of "fans" whose sole experience of Harry Potter consists of the films and whatever their fandom/pairing "comfort zone" is over on FF.net. Why read the books when their whole conception of what they perceive Harry Potter to be "all about" would just be spoiled by doing so? :/ I really do hate this aspect of the fandom. /thoughts on yaoifandom

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hitwoman Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 04:29 am (UTC)

Would it be terribly book!elitist of me to suggest that perhaps some of them are not so much Snapefen as AlanRickmanfen? While I can sympathize with the Rickmania, I can't honestly see how anyone who actually read the first part of the first book can find Snape defensible from a teaching standpoint.

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saralina25 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 04:46 am (UTC)

I have come to the conclusion that there are many versions of the books. Try collecting them all! Harmonian Version You know you are in possession of this version because somehow toast, flying, and eye contact mean something. The words "Hermione is my friend" being said over and over and over are completely omitted and Ron beats on Hermione while she screams at him to stop, because she couldn't totally kick his ass. Unable to fight, this resign Hermione to a life at home as a baby machine (It's in the epilogue). Also, there are several pages of sex so we know Ginny is a Whore. Snapefen Version Snape's past is not only terrible, it is so horrible that there is an entire book spent on why it is important we know about it. The time that Snape mentions that he doesn't like Marauders (specifically James and Sirius) is left out because ~they~ were the ones with the problem with ~him~. Also, Lily was under a spell the whole time she was with James and Snape truly loved her so much that he wasn't obsessed at all in a mildly pathetic way, why can't anyone see that? It isn't that he had to see Lily's eyes while looking at James (who he didn't hate, God!) every time he saw Harry. Of course not. Slytherfen Version That bastard Harry Potter always gets away with putting Slytherin's in the hospital wing and never gets punished. Like in book 3 where he was trying to cause them to trip by hurling spells across the halls before the Quidditch game. In fact, if you read closely you'll notice that nothing is ever a Slytherin's fault: Malfoy says so. Why does he get blamed for everything? Oh, we're going into the Malfoy version... I know there's more, but I've only got those three versions on my shelf with the non-batshit version!

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limyaael Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 05:08 am (UTC)

You forgot... The Remus/Sirius Version: Sirius and Remus are completely and totally in love in the canon world. This is confirmed by everything from joint Christmas presents to the fact that, honestly, who else are they going to find? Since obviously pairing them up with women is totally out of the question, because lycanthropy is a metaphor for homosexuality, and characters who remain single are just pathetic. Sirius is handsome and completely sane, not left ravaged physically and mentally by Azkaban, and Remus has no trace of cowardice or compliance in his character. And Rowling had to kill Sirius and Remus only because all the fundamentalists would be pissed at her for putting a loving gay relationship in a book kids read. Read closely, and be overwhelmed by the passionate romance that is ever so much more important than anything else in the books!

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mcity Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 05:34 am (UTC)

What, no Snapewives edition with Severus sending poetryastral messages to them hidden in the text?

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saralina25 Subject: Just for you Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 05:48 am (UTC)

Snapeswives Version There is no Snapeswives version of the books, because the books don't matter. The only thing that matters is what Snape tells them to do in their dreams, which may be vaguely related to the books, but probably aren't because JKR is writing Snape wrong in all versions of the books. All of them. Especially those damned 'true' versions. He is free to give his love only to those who believe in him by clapping their hands and yelling their belief. Also, salami.

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seeshellirun Subject: Re: Just for you Link: (Link) Time: 2008-06-06 09:49 pm (UTC)

Mmmmm... Salami.

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sandyclaws68 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 03:43 pm (UTC)

Totally OT, but I do have to say that I take your icon's advice. Regularly. :D

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mmanurere Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 09:42 am (UTC)

It's important to the Harmonian version that only dry toast is deeply significant. Not toast with jam, because that would be gay, and don't you know that Ron's just his friend and sometimes food is just food?

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nam_jai Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 04:43 pm (UTC)

That's because the nutritional content of jam is negligible to nonexistent, and if Ron was giving Harry toast with jam, it is yet another example of Ron leading Harry away from the path of good conduct -- in this case onto the path of cavities and weight gain. Dry toast shows that Hermione knows best about what is good for Harry and is there to set him straight in more ways than one.

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demiguise83 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 06:55 pm (UTC)

Love your icon, I do.

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azazello Subject: God I miss the screaming Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 11:11 am (UTC)

I was slyly pleased this happened on potter_cliche, seeing as I've made a sort of resolution to avoid wanky comms like snapedom and all the other hangouts for the entitlement whores. This sorta met my need to occasionally smack a Harry hater. Though if a poster hadn't complained to me directly, I'd not have gone in. These days I think I've 90% purged my flist of fanon addicts and entitlement whores - there are one or two hanging in by the skin of their teeth. Harry hate REALLY pisses me off to the max but I resolved earlier this year after an overlong headbutting session on Snapedom (home of all that's stupid in the internet - strapline is mine, sadly), no more rows... Guess I failed on that one, but potter_cliche is still my backyard. What pisses me off mightily is the Snapefen's inability to see Snape as he is: petty, vengeful, grudging, small-minded AND heroic in an unusual way. They seem incapable of getting the fact that JKR did a not bad job in creating a character who balances a good many contradictions, but instead have to whitewash everything that made his character interesting, and a sort of mid-point on the moral yardstick of the books. Instead, you get their version who is a sort of sad woobie who nothing common ever did or mean. Basically, it's the idiocy of snapefen that made me largely lose interest in him. Fanon Snape's a complete twat and I blame Rickman obsession for it. And snapping at Marianros about what canon Harry is, was the cream cheese frosting on the carrot cake. :D (zoepaleologa on lj, and the slapper-down)

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nifflet Subject: Re: God I miss the screaming Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 10:31 pm (UTC)

Ahahaha, that smackdown was beautiful. can0wned! (And you were much more civil than I would have been)

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lakme Subject: Re: God I miss the screaming Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-29 10:23 pm (UTC)

I liked the comparison of Snape/Slytherins/etc to persecuted Jews in WWII. Because the pureblood crazies would have been the Jews, not the Nazis, no sirree.

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sandyclaws68 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-26 03:42 pm (UTC)

Good God but that is an ass-load of stupid. Short, but stoopid. I especially love the whole Harry-is-a-smartass, destroys-cauldrons, etc., etc. as reasons why Snape hates him. What these geniuses fail to remember is that before Harry even says one bloody word in the first potions class EVAH Snape gives him shit. This is not a chicken vs. egg situation, dipshits. Snape hated first, then Harry responded. *head desk*

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sandyclaws68 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 02:43 pm (UTC)

Oh, they read the books. They just completely and utterly FAIL at the comprehension aspect.

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phasmas Link: (Link) Time: 2008-06-06 04:32 am (UTC)

Oh, they comprehend fine. They just comprehend it using a system of logic that is not of this Earth.

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julian_black Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 01:13 am (UTC)

I totally agree. I've seen a few of the more bitter Snapefen mention how they were bullied in school, or unloved as children, or otherwise the poor, nerdy, outcast child and/or teenager, and they identify with Snape because they understand what it's like to be the freak. Hey, I was there once, myself; it's part of why I had such a soft spot for Snape (even as I wanted to smack him and yell, "Get over it, already!"). But it wasn't JK Rowling's job to vindicate them for all their schoolyard sufferings, with Snape as a proxy. That Snape turned out not to be such a poor, innocent woobie after all (and that neither James or Sirius were utterly demonized for picking on him) is not some horrible failure on Rowling's part. She never promised her readers that; in fact, she made it clear all along that she wasn't kidding when she said that Snape was a "deeply horrible" person. Rather than bemoan how poor Snape failed to get proper vindication for being so horribly bullied, maybe the overidentified Snapefen need to look at Snape's story as a cautionary tale, and apply it to their own lives: This is what happens when you refuse to let go of your grudges, grow up, and move forward instead of clinging to past hurts--you end up miserable, lonely and despised, just like Snape...

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maegwin_of_hern Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 07:08 am (UTC)

What they forget is that Snape also had his friends (Lily didn't like them), and that he was just as much giving as receiving. And, unlike the "popular kids", he didn't outgrow this stupid behavior. I like Snape very much, he's the most twisted and complex character I've ever had the pleasure to read, and it's a shame that some people have problems with complexity and prefer characters to be either 100% white or 100% black. That's boring.

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sandyclaws68 Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-27 02:51 pm (UTC)

I agree that projection has a helluva lot to do with it. Where I lose my patience (and generally my temper) is with the inability of these people to understand that. . . Snape. Never. Grew. Up. Emotionally. This is not a bad thing in fiction. It's a part of what makes him one of the best drawn fictional characters I've encountered in quite a while. But it still makes him an asshole that takes out a schoolboy grudge on the son of a man who, by the end of the series, has been dead for nearly seventeen years. That was always what grated on me about the character, and by extension the fans. I know a lot of the serious Snapefen are "older-than-the-target-audience" and I can only conclude that they too have failed to grow up emotionally.

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lakme Link: (Link) Time: 2008-05-29 10:21 pm (UTC)

Snape hated Harry before he even broke one rule. And there's no excuse for Snape picking on Neville. I never liked Snape. Maybe James wasn't the nicest person, but at least he A) eventually stopped behaving like that and B) wasn't in the wizard world's version of the KKK.

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The HMS STFU - Okay, what is it with Snapefen? View: Recent Entries. View: Archive. View: Friends. View: User Info. View: Website (JF-less sailor? Suggest a topic here!).