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The HMS STFU -
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| | To be honest, despite the phrasing, it reads more as JKR throwing a bone to the shippers more than anything else. Saying "They were never actually going to be a couple, but they had moments where they really connected". | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | That's how I've read it too. It doesn't mean that people won't wank about it, though. After all, that's HP fandom, where "platonic" means "higher form of romantic love". | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | That doesn't seem too shocking. It's pretty common for people to have intense moments and then end up in an okay match when they could have had much stronger matches with other partners. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I really hate that delusional thing because JKR never said it. It was Emerson who did and she just sat there. Was it that, or was I the only one who paid attention (although I could be full of crazy too). | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-04 09:59 pm (UTC) |
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| From http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/THE_INTERVIEW
ES: We thought it was clearer than ever that Harry and Ginny are an item and Ron and Hermione — although we think you made it painfully obvious in the first five books —
JKR: (points to herself and whispers) So do I!
ES: What was that?
JKR: (More loudly) Well so do I! So do I!
(All laugh; Melissa doubles over, hysterical, and may have died.)
ES: Harry/Hermione shippers - delusional!
JKR: Well no, I'm not going to - Emerson, I am not going to say they're delusional! They are still valued members of my readership! I am not going to use the word delusional. I am however, going to say — now I am trusting both of you to do the spoiler thing when you write this up —
(More laughter.)
JKR: I will say, that yes, I personally feel - well it's going to be clear once people have read book six. I mean, that’s it. It’s done, isn’t it? We know. Yes, we do now know that it's Ron and Hermione. I do feel that I have dropped heavy -
(All crack up)
JKR: - hints. ANVIL-sized, actually, hints, prior to this point. I certainly think even if subtle clues hadn't been picked up by the end of "Azkaban," that by the time we hit Krum in Goblet... | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I think I can actually hear the wheels spinning out even more conspiracy theories. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) sheep | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-04 10:07 pm (UTC) |
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| I have been waiting ages for this to come out, and when it finally does, I have no popcorn left.
Oh, well, my lemon puff biscuits will have to do :D | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I was waiting for this to show up here. My initial response, it obviously doesn't matter. Like someone said, it almost seemed like JKR was humoring him, as people often do with people they know. "Oh, is that what you think? Yeah, sure, I guess it could have turned out like that. Whatever."
Just goes to show, Kloves has no idea what these kids' characterization is all about. Harry doesn't want to boink Hermione, Hermione doesn't want to be anything more than a platonic support system to Harry, and Ron actually exists.
He really needs to get over the hang up he's got for Emma Watson/Hermione. It's the classic Harmoanian argument. He wants his favorite character to get the hero. Doesn't matter that there's nothing else there to base it on, he just wants the character he likes the best to "win" the ultimate prize in terms of partners. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Oh, good God. The wanksplosion will rival a nuclear explosion.
*facepalm* | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I'll be in the wank shelter if anyone's looking for me. Please bring tequila and popcorn if you'll be joining me. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-05 01:17 am (UTC) |
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| It's such a non-coment. Anything could have happened. Harry could have boinked Luna, or Mrs. Weasley, or even Malfoy. But he didn't, so who cares?
I guess this will make some Harmonians feel better, in that maybe they weren't completely delusional - just batshit.
Hope this sparks some good wank. Will have to start monitoring Portkey again.
~Ikabod~
P.S. Looks like people were right in calling Kloves a Harmonian. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| http://www.journalfen.net/users/tviokh/878.html?thread=19054#t19054
In light of the recent explosion of H/Hr shippers' debates (some of which surely involves wank), I thought posting that anonymous comment would be a rather appropriate reminder of the kind of problems that attempting to hang one's deductions off presumed authorial intent can get one into.
Makes me wonder how Shakespeare would feel about people raking over the bones of his plays. Mercutio/Romeo slash anyone? :P | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| True. But it's kind of funny that we're basically trying to read his mind by reading his plays, when for all we know he probably was purposely trolling the wank with Romeo and Juliet by purposely buying into stereotypes about Italians.
:P
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| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-06 03:27 pm (UTC) |
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| It has been discovered at Portkey! Here's the thread:
http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=31067&st=0
It's full of the usual stuff - "I understand the characters better.", "She's still a crappy writer for choosing what was easy over what was right.", ""I still hate her for writing OBHWF and dissing H/Hr fans.", "Here's my conspiracy theory for why she said it." etc, etc.
Here's a typical bit by a poster named kckaye:
"I do think that he had the best insight into Jo's mind as she was still writing the books and he was adapting them. I think that deep down JKR KNEW what she was writing, but like she said in her interview, in her mind it was always going to be OBWF and so she didn't realize that she was also (potentially) writing H/Hr as well.
I still dislike JKR. I think that PS, Poa and GoF are still some of the most intersting books that I've read, and I wouldn't hesitate to reread those again when kids get older, but I do think that as the series became more of a phenomenon that she lost touch with her own story and started to think about (maybe not a lot) about what the public would think and started to stray away from her focus. Look at OotP of example. That came out after CoS was released in theatres, and Hayy Potter fandom had taken off. Look how choppy that book was. There was so much in that book, that didn't really need to be there.
I will always be grateful to JKR for introducing me to Harry Potter, but I still think that she's an idiot for a whole number of reasons." | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
bigi | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-06 11:21 pm (UTC) |
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| I will always be grateful to JKR for introducing me to Harry Potter
Introducing? Do they not realize she created these characters.
And OOTP is my favorite book, I think if it is choppy then it's because of real life events. I wonder how much of the political theme she had intended to have in there before 9/11. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Introducing? Do they not realize she created these characters.
No they don't. They don't actually realise that these characters are fictional. They think of JKR as a flawed reporter of real events, not an author making them up.
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| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-12 03:27 pm (UTC) |
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| I have to report more fallout from Portkey. This was posted by "Midnight72" and it reflects the common Harmony trope that Harry and Hermione "wanted to get together and JKR wouldn't let them".
"well all I can think is that either JKR is so completely wrapped up into the "love story" that is OBHWF that her eyes were shut to H/Hr or she is just not intelligent enough to have noticed that she was writing H/Hr. I've said it once and I will say it again. Harry and Hermione wanted to go together as characters, but the author did not want them to. So what did she do... the dumbest thing ever to do when writing, she she forces the character into different acts."
Dear Harmonians,
Harry and Hermione are not real. They can only want/desire/need/yearn for what the author says they want/desire/need/yearn for. Characters can not go off in their own direction and then be forced into doing something they do not want to do by the author. They are not real.
Sincerely,
~Ikabod~ | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| miss_celestine described this phenomenon in her essay Harmonians and Defeat : Reasons and Forms of Denial:
"The Frankenstein Syndrome: Harry and Hermione as Independent Entities
Perhaps the most intriguing particularity of the Harmonian point of view is the unshakeable belief that Harry and Hermione have escaped from their creator’s hands. Many Harmonians act as if their heroes are victims of forbidden love for which many clues were laid throughout the first five books, now rendered impossible by canon, but one that will ultimately prevail in some post-canon future, possibly materialising as post-Hogwarts adultery. This elaborate timeline which plans out the romantic future of two fictional characters who were “forced” by the author to act against their “will” and live a life neither of them “want” calls into question the entire notion of creation and canon. Can an author write her own characters out of character? Of course, had Harry started to talk in net-speak (“lik OMG Snape is so meen w/ me *tears*” ) and Hermione worn sparkly pink lipstick and fishnets, the accusation might stand. In this case, though, Harmonians are nearly alone in seeing the “change in character” and despite their claims, the logical conclusion is that this change is based solely on which ships sailed. Indeed, is Hermione not as brilliant, caring and anxious as in the previous books? Is Harry not as reckless, heroic , and troubled?
It’s possible that endless speculation over Harry and Hermione’s romantic intentions, as well as the drafting of countless fan fictions where they end up together have led Harmonians to believe that they know the characters better than JK Rowling does, and therefore know what is “better” for them and what’s better from a literary standpoint. They argue that JK Rowling does not own the characters, yet act as if they do. I do believe, however, that the Harmonians are sincere when they say Hermione fancying Ron and being emotionally distressed over his dating Lavender is desperately out of character for her – simply because their understanding of Hermione’s character from the previous books was not the understanding that Rowling intended to convey".
Rabid Snapefen usually suffer from the same syndrome. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-11-12 05:45 pm (UTC) |
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| "Perhaps the most intriguing particularity of the Harmonian point of view is the unshakeable belief that Harry and Hermione have escaped from their creator’s hands."
It doesn't help that they have a quote that they misinterpret all of the time to back up the insanity. A looong time ago, when GoF first came out, JKR stated in an interview that Hermione "wandered off" for a few chapters in regards to the SPEW storyline. She said that she had to bring her back under control (I am paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact quote and am too lazy to find it). She specifically stated that she threw out the offending chapters where Hermione "wandered off." However, Harmonians seized on this to justify their belief that JKR can not control her own characters and that they clearly want to do things that JKR does not want them to do.
What's most interesting, perhaps, is how they cling to some interview statements as golden nuggets of truth that prove their point and disregard others as irrelevant and unimportant. Must be tiring to engage in those sorts of logical olympics all of the time. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| In fairness, authors have sometimes found that in the course of writing, characters end up evolving in unexpected ways in order to meet the requirements of the plot. But it is entirely up to the author to decide if that evolution should be accepted, or to purposely change the writing of the story to reflect the intended direction both of character development and the plot.
So JKR still retains the final say, I'd say. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2008-12-07 10:58 pm (UTC) |
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| The wank continues over this at Portkey. It's really fun, because I think they've forgotten what they are wanking about in the thread "JKR: It could have gone that way", as it as devolved into the usual JKR bashing. Here's a good example from lovesharry:
"You know, I have always teasingly said that Rowling spent up too much time 'holed up' alone in a hotel room writing her final book and that the reason she gave us H/G and R/Hr and that gawd awful crapilogue epilogue was because of her imbibing from the small bottles of liquor found in the refrigerators in high class hotel rooms. But over time I've felt that maybe she did just that. Picture this:
*in her hotel room - alone - phones off - several empty little bottles around her - sipping on another - staring at her computer*
"...it's my book ... I'm the all knowing main wizard of them all! ... (hiccup!) ... I've always like Ginny ... (tears welling up in her eyes) ... she's such a sweetie ... all that long silky red hair ... wish I had long silky red hair ... Ginny, Ginny, Ginny, YOU are Harry's soulmate ... not that brainiac Hermione! ... Hermie was always meant for that lame brain Ron ... (takes a swig from the little bottle) ... (wipes her lips with her shirt sleeve) ... OK ... here it goes ... Ginerva Molly Weasley is going to become the darling of my last two books ... no one will even give ... what do they call it ~ harmony ... yeah, harmony ... a second thought."
(throwing aside the empty bottle, making a clinking sound when it hits the others on the floor)
Jo pads barefoot over to the refrigerator and selects a miniature bottle of gin."
So...JKR wrote R/Hr and H/G because she was drunk. Trufax.
~Ikabod~ | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
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The HMS STFU -
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