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The HMS STFU - Meta Part 2: Ron, Hermione, Jealousy, and Bad Cliches (Part 1)
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| In GoF, I think Ron is jealous of Harry to some degree, but he quickly gets overs it - and I think it's more motivated by his own insecurities and his tendency to compare himself to others in terms of what they have and he does not. But, after the first task Ron realizes that Harry is in actual danger and his concern takes precedence. By the end of the series, he matures past it.
In my view, Ron did two unforgivable things: fight with Harry in GoF, and leave in DH. I noticed that lots of fans (particularly Hermione lovers who hold her constance to Harry as her greatest virtue) started disliking Ron after GoF and his and Harry's fight. To some, deserting Harry in a time of need was unpardonable (especially since it is something that Hermione would never do) and they never forgave him as Harry did. Then, they were reinforced in their dislike when he left in DH. His motivations and explanations are irrelevant. He left, while saint Hermione stayed. And that is what "true friends" should do.
Most of the real Ron haters that I've seen (shippers and Slytherfen for the most part) hate him because he's in the way: he blocks their OTP or he blocks Harry from befriending Slytherins. He's just too common to be interesting enough to deserve their heroine or personal stand-in. The existence of Ron prevents many of the preferred fan scenarios and they use the evidence of his immaturity and disloyalty to prove that they are right that he is unworthy. A further study of his character is unnecessary - they get all they need from two moments of weakness. Instead of looking past it and finding Ron admirable for getting over his issues, they would prefer he be perfect from the start. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I give Ron a pass on DH because of the Horcrux... young Weasley's have a bit of trouble with Horcruxes designed by Voldemort | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| I also easily forgive Ron. He is one of my favorite characters because he manages to get over his insecurities. He goes through a lot of shit and comes out stronger in the end. The most telling thing about Ron's character, IMO, was his ability to hold himself together and not going rushing off to do something rash after Fred's death. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.
One of my biggest problems with Hermione is that she was never tested in the way that Ron was. She never had to face up to her own issues. She never had to deal with being wrong or making a bad decision. She remains the same know-it-all pain-in-the-ass throughout the series. There's no real growth in her character. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| The interesting thing is that in many ways she gave Ron a clearer character arc than Harry.
And I cover the jealousy thing in the next post. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) lakme | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 04:31 pm (UTC) |
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| I think Ron's just... likeable. He's hilarious. Some of the best lines in the series come from him.
Also, his knowledge of the wizarding world comes in really handy. I can't stand how the movies give his lines to Hermione because, really, how would she know things like the connotation of the word Mudblood? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | From hearing it a lot, then researching it like she does everything else? (Just to be fair.) | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
lakme | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 04:34 pm (UTC) |
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| I dunno, I'm not sure you could find that information, though. It sounds like something you'd more learn in real life.
Unless wizards have some version of Wikipedia or Urban Dictionary, I suppose. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| One of my biggest problems with Hermione is that she was never tested in the way that Ron was. She never had to face up to her own issues. She never had to deal with being wrong or making a bad decision. She remains the same know-it-all pain-in-the-ass throughout the series. There's no real growth in her character.
This. ^
Yes. Oh my God so much YES | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Well... in all fairness to Hermione, she does undergo at least some character development. The criticism that Hermione underwent a personality change between OP and HBP has at least some merit. I was discussing it with dontgiveahoot early this morning, and I realized.
It's because of Umbridge.
As I mention in my essay, Hermione was well on her way to becoming another Umbridge by the time she met Harry and Ron and my personal theory is that when Hermione came face to face with what she could have become, it forced her to evaluate her priorities a bit. I'm not saying she had a total change in personality or anything--she's still prone to the whole "I know better than you" thing, she's just not quite so vocal about it. She grows up a bit.
Or at least that's the way I see it. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I don't see any real character development in Hermione, myself. Other than how she kind of "lightens up". And like Ikabod said, it's primarily because Hermione never really has to face herself - she's never confronted with her own weaknesses and insecurities. I see your point about how Umbridge kind of got Hermione to think about what she might become, but compared to what Harry and Ron go through and confront, and how they develop, it's far too little. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | Well, when your whole life is building up to something, it's hard to change completely overnight. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| One of my biggest problems with Hermione is that she was never tested in the way that Ron was. She never had to face up to her own issues. She never had to deal with being wrong or making a bad decision. She remains the same know-it-all pain-in-the-ass throughout the series. There's no real growth in her character.
This is so true. I think that's why I'm indifferent to Hermione. I don't dislike her, but she bugs me most of the time she's on page. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| The part that got up my nose about her a little was the way she talked like she knew it all about Occlumency in fifth year, and didn't bother to say "O hai, here's a book, plzreadit" *, and then nagging at Harry over it in Deathly Hallows.
That second part in particular shows she has no understanding of what it's like for someone to be reminded of a bad experience that turned into a cock-up all around. No matter how much Harry intellectually knows it'd be a good idea, emotionally, it's all mixed up with Snape rooting around in his mind and Dumbledore not paying any attention to him.
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* Yes, I realize JKR wanted things to work the way she wrote them for plot reasons, but frankly, if Hermione's learned anything at all about Occlumency you'd bet she'd be eager as hell to master it and show off to Harry that she knows it. And in that instance, he might actually preferred to have learned it all at Hermione's behest and bypass Snape if he could.
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| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 06:58 pm (UTC) |
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| | It's funny that people seem to blame Ron for Harry not befriending Slytherins when it was Harry's own first meeting with Draco and Hagrid's initial spiel about Slytherin being a dark house and all of the DE being from it that really influenced his feelings. He was anti-Slytherin long before he was pro-Gryffindor. Ron influenced him wanting to be in Gryffindor, but he didn't influence him not wanting to be in Slytherin, it was the snobbery and Hagrid that did that. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | Ron gets blamed for everything. I've seen him blamed for Harry not being at the top of his class, for crying out loud. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 07:07 pm (UTC) |
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| | Whaaaat? Harry's not the top of his class because he doesn't study unless someone makes him, lmao! Also, didn't Lucius Malfoy say that Hermione was the reason that Draco wasn't top of his class? Which would make Draco second? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | It was part of a fic that used it as an excuse for Harry to ditch Ron entirely out of nowhere. And it turned Ron worse than even Draco. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 07:13 pm (UTC) |
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| | That's so weird to me. Ron's hardly a bad influence on Harry, Harry has no real interest in academics... probably because he's too busy worrying about not dying and killing Voldemort and all that. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | People seem to entirely miss the point of the series. Harry would have to study for a literal lifetime to know as much about magic as Voldemort or Dumbledore. Mostly he gets by with the help of his friends. And a good helping of "sheer dumb luck." | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 07:36 pm (UTC) |
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| I have to think that instead of just missing the point, they decide to deny that's the point and invent something else instead, because they don't like the point. Because to me it's pretty obvious that one of JKR's messages is that academics aren't everything and that grades aren't a mark of one's intelligence or talent, as we can see with the Weasley twins. And the whole Slytherin Ambition thing is pretty negatively viewed because it has to do with excelling on your own to the detriment of others, and being willing to do anything, moral or not, to succeed.
I don't know how she could have said 'teamwork is better!' any clearer than with Harry, Ron, and Hermione... I find it completely unbelievable that anyone would think that Harry would ever either blame his academic state on Ron, or even to think that his personal academic success was more important than the support and love and protection their group gives each other. If Snape had had a single friend he could actually trust, there might have been someone around to save his neck in the end, the way Ron saved Harry from drowning in the lake. Because the knowledge of how to do something is completely worthless if you're dead. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-02 09:23 pm (UTC) |
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| Also, didn't Lucius Malfoy say that Hermione was the reason that Draco wasn't top of his class? Which would make Draco second?
I'm not sure that's entirely clear. Lucius, if I remember rightly, is upset because Hermione, a muggle-born, has better marks than Draco. Some pure-bloods or half-bloods might also have better marks, and that wouldn't worry him so much. (Though I think it's unlikely Harry is one of them.) | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-05-04 03:05 pm (UTC) |
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| | I couldn't remember the exact phrasing, but you're right, that's totally plausible. I might have misremembered what he said, I just had the impression that Draco was potentially the second-place slot. Though throughout the books he only occasionally shows himself to be intelligent, most of the time his snotty behaviour just makes him look like a douche, so I don't think he comes across as a good student outside of class. But he does seem to do just fine in his classes, at least the ones he shares with Harry, so I think it's still possible that he's high on the class ranking. But yeah, Harry really doesn't care at all about that kind of thing, so I doubt he's beating Draco (and I doubt he'd care that he wasn't). If nothing else, Draco does have clear family pressure to do well in classes, whereas Harry's accomplishments matter only to himself and he's not worried about disappointing his family with his marks. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
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The HMS STFU - Meta Part 2: Ron, Hermione, Jealousy, and Bad Cliches (Part 1)
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