The HMS STFU - OK, this is just stupid

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Subject:	OK, this is just stupid
Time:	12:48 pm

Over on the Leaky Lounge (in Jim's thread pimping his 80,000 word opus on why HP sucks and JKR should write a new one) WalnutWandCarrier may just take the stupid cake with this gem:

"The thing about Harry's walk into the Forest, is that he hasn't chosen it himself to do that, at no point whatsoever. He learns that this is what needs to be done, and just accepts it (however he may have felt then), and does it. But he never ever chose to do it, he just displays his feelings about this fact, about learning that he has to do it, but he doesn't actually choose to do it. He's merely executing it. He accepts that he's going to do it from the very first second of the revelation on, just like a machine. He then goes on to think about his feelings towards it (towards this fact, which he has already accepted, in fact, never NOT accepted, as this fact that needs to be executed), and about what he regrets about having to leave and so on, but he never has the tiniest impulse of "I won't do it". That is a ridiculous character-portrayal, imo. It is absurd. He simply doesn't go through any character-development at all, so as to be innerly able to face such a thing in the end. He just jumped into being having no interest in life whatsoever (to exagerate a bit , but it's basically that), seeing as he's already basically like that by the end of book one (never ever having personally been interested in the slightest in the Stone at all - thus it is not heroic for him to not want it for him), and never has a serious and difficult and long inner struggle to become a true anti-hero in the end, who, out of hard development and true inner choice (a choice can only take place where there have been alternatives, btw, which isn't the case in Harry's personality at all), would be able to let lose of everything and face death. If he is already like that from the beginning, ok fine, but then what he does is not heroic because then it is utterly normal for him, like eating breakfast is for others. (I actually like to be provokative - but it's exactly like that, actually - eating breakfast would be an achievement for somebody who's been suffering from anorexia and finally manages to eat again, for example, but not if the person is already perfectly able to eat breakfast every day.) His going to his own death isn't a surprise at all, it is clear from book one on that such enormous character traits are already in him from that early on, which is simply impossible, unhuman, personality-less, empty. "

When challenged he/she responds with this:

"@Dreamteam: Well, then, show me the passage in DH where Harry actually chooses to walk into the Forest ! He doesn't !! He even doesn't think something like "Well, of course I'll go". There's not the tiniest choosing sequence or hint at something like that there. DD tells him to do it via Snape's memories, and he goes without questioning anything, without choosing anything, because he has no personality of his own. He accepts his death from the moment of the memory-revelation on, he even doesn't "accept" it at any point, he merely learns about it from the memories. In fact, he's been a dead character all along. "

I guess something is not a choice unless someone actually says "I choose to do the following. I am doing all of this because I choose to." Choice can not be reasonably inferred in the HP fandom. Actions have no meaning unless that meaning is explicitly spelled out.

edited for C&P fail

ETA: The twisted logic evidenced here reminds me of something I saw a Harmonian whining about once. I actually posted about it as a mouse in the JF-less sailor section of this board (In case anyone wants to go see). This is part of what I posted:

"(On Portkey) there is a discussion going on about how Neville got a hold of Gryffindor's sword when it should have been in Griphooks's posession. Many Harmonians seized upon this as an unforgivable plot-hole. Several masochistic non-Harmonians have explained that the sorting hat calls forth the sword for worthy Gryffindors in need, through, you know, magic. Several Harmonians are being deliberately obtuse in failing to understand this explanation (they're running in truly dizzying circles to avoid it, actually), and others are saying it should have been spelled out in the book (i.e. one poster said the narrative should have switced to Neville's POV for a few sentences to explain that he felt a thud on his head - yeah, that would be good writing). All of this, despite the fact that most readers capable of reasing above a third grade level did not need to have this explained in several paragraphs of exposition."

This current situation reminded me of it, because apparently it is bad writing if every little thing is not explicitly specified. Reasonable inferences can NOT be expected in good writing.

comments: Poke a delusional shipper

insanitys_place

Link:	(Link)
Time:	2009-05-07 05:34 pm (UTC)

his response to actual textual evidence by posters is even more stupid:

"Nothing of the previous posts prove anything about Harry ever chosing himself to die at all in the Forest - it all proves the contrary, in fact. He doesn't accept his death himself, Lirene, he accepts that that is the plan which, according to DD, has to be fulfilled. He blindly accepts the plan, not his death, and even less was he choosing it, but merely executing a plan which happened to involve his death. "The Forest Again"-Chapter is all about feelings towards his death (which he had already accepted ever since hearing about it merely because DD told him to do it - there's no sequence about having any reflection at all about his being supposed to die, which he accepts just like that, without the tiniest hesitation - and I don't need explicit sentences for things like that to be conveyed, but there isn't anything else neither), not about questioning whether or not he's gonna do it in the first place, and then choosing (=which would be a genuin [sic] choice then) to do it himself. And he hasn't gone through any inner death-preparation-development either throughout the series, because he has already in essentials been like that in book one, not wanting the Stone which makes you live (which is metaphorically very telling). In fact, he couldn't even have made a choice to die at all, because he was never drawn to life in the first place, he was always like that - like already dead - and it is therefore no achievement for him to die when he had already jumped into being never having cared about death at all, in the first place.

But I accept that we disagree on all that stuff."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

mcity

Link:	(Link)
Time:	2009-05-07 08:46 pm (UTC)

Am I the only one who can just smell the condescension in that last line?

May 7th, 2009

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