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Subject:The Tale of the Three Half-Bloods
Time:05:19 pm
Current Mood:contemplative
But he was home. Hogwarts was the first and best home he had known. He and Voldemort and Snape, the abandoned boys, had all found home here…
--Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

XxXxX

Of all the tales contained within The Tales of Beedle the Bard, the one most relevant to the plot of the Harry Potter series is, of course, “The Tale of the Three Brothers”, which was important to the plot of DH.

In-universe, the tale is regarded as being that of the three Peverell brothers, Antioch, Cadmus, and Ignotus. It is unknown if the three items known as the Deathly Hallows—the Elder Wand, the Resurrection Stone, and the Cloak of Invisibility—were actually “artifacts of Death,” or if they were simply created by the brothers themselves and, to paraphrase Tolkien, history became legend, which in turn became myth. But that’s another essay.

Rather like Lewis, one of her literary influences, JKR seems at least somewhat fond of allegory.

The Warlock’s Hairy Heart (the only tale in the collection not named by Ron in DH, and clearly influenced by Lewis) may be an example of allegory.

The eponymous warlock can be compared to Voldemort—both have utter contempt for emotion (which they see as weakness), and desire to be perceived in a certain way by others (the warlock sought to be admired and envied while by all appearances Riddle merely sought to be feared). Both also have a desire to remain “intact”, but end up anything but—the warlock desires to protect his heart from emotional hardship but instead destroys it; Voldemort tears his soul to ribbons to preserve his life, only to lose it. Also, both showed physical effects; the warlock's heart grew hair, symbolizing his descent toward beasthood, while Riddle's visage became deformed and steadily more inhuman with each new Horcrux.

It’s not too much of a stretch to imagine that The Tale of the Three Brothers is some form of allegory as well.

 

Most of us know the tale by now—three brothers, traveling together, encounter the personification of Death after they manage to avoid being killed crossing a river. Death—angry at having lost three new victims, but shrewd enough to see a way to rectify that—pretends to congratulate each of them, offering a reward to each of them for being smart enough to evade him.

The oldest brother, a combative man, asks for the mightiest wand ever created—a wand that will win every duel for its owner, one befitting “a wizard who had conquered Death”. So Death plucks a branch from an elder tree and fashions a wand from it, giving it to the quarrelsome, boastful brother.

The second brother, an arrogant man who is determined to demean Death further, asks for the power to summon others back from death. Picking up a stone from the ground, Death tells the brother that it holds the power to bring back the dead.

The youngest brother, the humblest and wisest of the three, does not trust Death (perhaps guessing Death's intentions), so he asks for something to allow him to leave “without being followed by Death.” Knowing he may have been outsmarted, Death hands over his own invisibility cloak.

Death then stands aside and lets them go on their way.

The brothers, with their gifts, go their separate ways, toward very different fates.

 

Beedle’s tales are presented as the wizarding equivalent of fairy tales—short stories designed both to entertain and teach some sort of lesson about life and the world. This tale seems to have one overarching lesson, as well as a few smaller ones.

The overall lesson is a rather morbid one—that certain things in this world are inevitable, and one should seek not to thwart death, but to accept it when it comes.

The first brother’s lesson is that even the greatest wand ever created cannot protect you from your own stupidity—and that, to quote the old proverb, “Pride (or rather hubris) goes before destruction.” If you have something others are likely to covet and they know you have it, they’re likely to come after it sooner or later. Dumbledore seems to have learned this lesson in regards to the Elder Wand—possibly more than a few of its holders have understood this lesson over the years, which would go a long way toward explaining why it is so difficult to track the Elder Wand’s history in-universe.

The second brother’s lesson is that you shouldn’t obsess over the past—as Dumbledore says, “It does not do to dwell on dreams, and forget to live.” Also, don’t meddle in things that ought not be meddled with.

The third brother’s lesson is that, as the Bard says, sometimes discretion really is the better part of valor (in contrast to the first brother), and that the best way to deal with something as inevitable as death is to learn to accept it, and not fear it when it comes (in contrast to the second brother). The youngest brother did not try to cheat Death (like the middle brother) or harm others with his power (like the eldest); instead, knowing he was only likely to escape Death once, he used his gift to live simply and without fear of Death, so that at the end of a long and happy life, he was able to go willingly from this world.

The three brothers can be compared to three characters we are familiar with in the Harry Potter universe—Voldemort, Snape, and Harry himself.

They already have a number of similarities—all three are half-bloods, all three were to some extent abandoned and/or abused by family, and all three found their first real home at Hogwarts.

 

The oldest brother’s role is taken by Tom Marvolo Riddle, known to the wizarding world at large as Voldemort. He definitely fits the profile—he is the oldest of the three; definitely a combative man, carving a bloody swath through the wizarding world rather like the wand he ended up coveting; and sought to be “a wizard who had conquered death” through the use of his Horcruxes. His quest for absolute power suits the first brother’s mindset.

Voldemort’s goal of power over death—of invincibility—can be traced back to numerous factors. He hated his father for leaving his mother (and, it seems, taking her will to live with him), his mother for being unwilling to at least live for his sake (his belief, up until Dumbledore told him otherwise, seemed to be that a wizard should be above something as mundane as death), his grandfather and uncle for their treatment of his mother (note that he shares names with his father and maternal grandfather, both of whom he came to hate—this definitely motivated his change of name), the other kids and most if not all at the adults for refusing to recognize that he was special (much like the Dursleys, they seem to have thought him freakish and possibly demonic—and with good reason; Little!Riddle has a definite Damien vibe going on there), and anything that would mean he was not special and unique. He seemed to seek control over everything as a result of him feeling helpless and powerless during the formative years of his life.

He seeks to become superhuman, to thwart death itself. But—much like the hairy-hearted warlock—he becomes inhuman instead. His physical appearance soon reflects his warped mindset.

Like the first brother, the Elder Wand—his prize for thwarting death—coupled with his own hubris, is ultimately his undoing.

 

The middle brother’s role is taken by Severus Snape. The central element of Snape’s character—one could argue—is that he seems to take everything personally. This fits the description of the second brother, who is seen as “arrogant.” It would have done well for someone to remind Snape “it’s not always about you, you know” every now and again.

To Snape, an attack on anything or anyone he associates with may be considered an attack on him personally. James’ derisive attitude towards Slytherin House is interpreted by Snape as an attack on him personally (to be fair, Snape’s opinion of Gryffindors is interpreted similarly by James, though James merely states that he’d rather leave Hogwarts than be in Slytherin while Snape pretty much openly calls James an idiot)—this is probably because Eileen Prince Snape instilled her son with her own beliefs on pureblood/magical superiority and the idea that Slytherin House is superior to all other Hogwarts houses.

James grows out of his arrogance. Snape doesn’t. And it doesn’t help that Snape doesn't really develop a brain-to-mouth filter until he totally screws things up with Lily.

In addition, Snape’s frankly disturbing obsession over Lily Evans—he puts her on a pedestal, despite his apparent disdain for or outright hatred of Muggleborns, non-purebloods, and non-Slytherins, which fits him right in with Mulciber and the other future Death Eaters—liken him to the second brother’s central desire, to bring the woman he loved back from death.

Snape, as I have noted before, pretty much wanted to have his cake and eat it too as far as Lily was concerned—he figured he could balance keeping a Muggleborn, Gryffindor friend (his trying to get James and James’ friends expelled could almost be considered removing any romantic competition, even if he wasn’t embroiled in a very personal conflict with them) with his love of Dark magic and association with future Death Eaters, without any consequences.

But said consequences bit him in the ass. Big time. He had the opportunity to either have Lily or the Death Eaters. He chose the latter, then spent the rest of his life pissed off because he couldn’t have both.

His frankly unhealthy obsession with Lily continued even after she was married (I have sometimes wondered if Snape didn’t think that James’ pursuit of Lily wasn’t just another way to attack him), to the point where he didn’t seem to mind letting Lily’s husband and infant son die as long as he could comfort the grieving widow. He even told Voldemort he wanted Lily, and had been led to believe he could have her as a reward for services rendered—meaning he was perfectly fine with Voldemort murdering James and Harry. It’s only when Dumbledore calls Snape on this that he says “fine, protect them all”.

After James and Lily are murdered, Snape spends the rest of his life taking his issues out on just about everybody—this brings us to another central element of Snape’s personality that he arguably shares with the second brother; his utter refusal to let go of the past.

Snape takes his issues out on defenseless kids, at least two of whom have committed no crime against Snape except to be born to the wrong parents. We all know that Snape’s treatment of Harry is based on the fact that if he had never been born, Lily would still be alive for Snape to stalk. It could be argued that Snape’s treatment of Neville (he threatened to poison the poor kid’s pet in front of the entire class, folks—and then castigate him for making a defective poison while Neville watched his poor pet die) is based in Snape’s anger that the Longbottoms didn’t die in Lily’s the Potters’ place. Even the other Gryffindors seem to have committed no real crime against Snape other than being sorted into that house (before you mention the Weasley twins, remember, they're equal-opportunity prank artists; they hit their fellow Gryffindors as hard as Slytherin).

Snape’s refusal to let go of the past—his insistence on holding on to old grudges, his refusal to forgive those who dared to oppose him—hampers him for the rest of his life. He only seems to regret things when they hurt him personally. In the end, he’s arguably more culpable than Voldemort, who has never known or sought love.

And in the end, his obsession is his undoing. Had he been able to let go of his hatred of James Potter and his love of Dark magic, he might have found friendship from Sirius and Remus—they missed Lily, too, after all. Snape might even have realized that in Harry he would have found not a carbon-copy of the man he hated but something of a kindred spirit.

Had he decided to do what was right rather than what was easy—it’s easy to hold on to hatred, while learning to move on is hard work—he might never have become a Death Eater at all.

But no. Not only did he display eagerness to subject both Sirius and Remus to the Dementor’s Kiss—despite his having been close enough to have heard the truth about who had really betrayed James and Lily—he seems to have seen Harry as a tool, object, a weapon to be protected from Voldemort and the Death Eaters rather than a human being. As I’ve noted before, Snape’s view of Harry can be compared readily with that of the Dursleys.

And so he died, alone and friendless, his last desire to look into Lily’s eyes—refusing to see the good qualities of the man behind them.

 

This brings us to the youngest brother, whose role is taken by Harry Potter.

Harry fits the profile—he is the youngest of the three, and also the humblest and wisest. Harry rejects the temptation of power (I can’t help thinking that the Sorting Hat puts the “you could be great, you know” bait forward on a regular basis), and is willing to let go of his own prejudices and hatreds (he forgives Sirius after hearing the truth, seems to feel sorry for Wormtail, befriends Kreacher, tries to save Voldemort in the end, and names his youngest son after the man he once hated more than Voldemort).

Harry is embarrassed by his fame, and would give up every last Knut in his vault in a heartbeat for a day of what Ron takes for granted—family. He learns from his mistakes—which is arguably the best indication of a wise person.

Harry understands that mastery of death is not control over it, but acceptance of it. He rejects the power of the Wand and the temptation to use the Stone for his own selfish reasons. While Snape would have brought back Lily at any costs (though to be fair even Dumbledore screwed up along those lines), Harry only used it to bring back his loved ones long enough to say "I'll see you soon--I need your support." He learned his lesson about letting go all the way back in PS with the Mirror of Erised, and the lesson was cemented with Snape's pensieve.

Unlike Snape and Voldemort, Harry—knowing that, as many times as he’s escaped death before, it may not happen again—shows every sign that he will live to a great age, pass the Cloak on to one of his children, and greet death “gladly”, choosing to leave this life with him “as equals”.

But that's my opinion. I could be wrong. What do you think?

(edited to clarify position on Harry and the Resurrection Stone)

(edited to correct minor point about Snape's brain-to-mouth filter)

(edited to correct another good point about Snape)

comments: Poke a delusional shipper Previous Entry Add to Memories Tell a Friend Next Entry


[info]pathology_doc
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 02:54 am (UTC)
I hadn't ever considered it this way, but it sounds pretty reasonable. Whether or not JKR intended it precisely that way, it seems like a valid interpretation. I liked this essay.

He rejects the power of the Wand and the temptation of the Stone.

He certainly does the former (with one exception - repairing his own wand), but as for the latter it depends on definitions. I think (and I suspect you do as well) that "the temptation of the stone" is the temptation to call the dead back for your own selfish purposes, or because you cannot let them go. Harry calls back the dead (four of them, no less) in order to help himself face death. And that's what makes the difference.

While we're on the subject of the Stone, I think that Dumbledore's purpose behind using it was similarly noble - to apologise to the dead members of his family for the wrongs he'd done - but where Dumbledore went wrong was that his eagerness to clear the skeletons out of his closet overrode his common sense. If only he'd struck the ring with the Sword of Gryffindor before putting it on, we might have had a very different outcome - but then a Dumbledore who didn't make that mistake might not have been the sort of person who fell under the spell of Gellert Grindelwald's insane plans.

Of the three Hallows, the Cloak seems to be the only one that comes with no grave moral problems attached to it. The other two carry a reputation for either disturbing the dead or adding to their number (whether through using the wand or losing it).
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[info]angakkuq
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Time:2009-08-28 03:02 am (UTC)
Good point. I was referring to that fact, actually--the temptation to call the dead back for your own purposes.
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[info]ikuko
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Time:2009-09-02 04:08 am (UTC)
I suspect that Harry's attempt to reject both the stone and the wand were rater futile. First of all, if the wand teaches us anything about the hallows, it does not matter in the least where the stone resides, Harry is still its owner. And the Master of Death. What matters even more, is that the argument how to use the stone is a non-argument. The stone, just like the wand, is a temptation, and the power they give comes to those who choose not to use them. The master of death would not try to carry people across the veil, they are where they are, and he accepts it.

Now, the wand is even funnier story. From what we learn in the last book, the wand that Harry would be using the rest of his live IS the unbeatable wand, only one obtained without pride. Lets see what we are told:

Wands sense their owners and the powers they can and did lend to the wands. More, wands retain some of these powers (like Harry's wand remembered Voldemort it fought - Voldemort, even when he held another wand). Wands retain sense of previous owners (like Bella's wand that was cruel to Hermione). Wands can be related in various ways (shared cores are only one of them, obviously: surely shared MASTER is another).

Now, see what happened in the last scene in Dumbledore's office. Silly Harry nobly tries to reject the wand. Wand that knows him for years (while in Dumbledore's hands) used for the first and the longest time for good including care for Harry, being obtained in love, never boasted about, and, if wands know hate as between Harry and Voldemort, likely to know love like Dumbledore's to Harry. How does Harry goe about it? Right, he pours his entire strength and entire strength of the wand into his old and broken one. Which is in so many ways kin to the Elder wand: they both have same master, same Fawkes that gave core to Harry's wand was a symbol of Elder wand longest and latest owner. And note, that at that moment Harry is the master of death, true owner of all hallows, and unless legends lie shamelessly, has unprecedented powers. And he (as master of Death, who made the wands in the first place) is in the process of (he thinks) fixing his old wand by the means of putting all the strength of the new one in it and no intention of using the new one ever again. You see what I am saying? Harry put back the elder wand. But he carried away a new Stick of Destiny.

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[info]pathology_doc
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Time:2009-09-02 04:36 am (UTC)
I think you're making absolutely no sense.

1) Rejecting the Stone - Harry used it only to make his own impending death easier. Rowling draws a clear distinction between the original use of the stone, which was also the use Dumbledore first intended for it, and the use to which Harry put it. The second Peverell brother brought his dead girl back because he couldn't let her go and wanted her with him; Dumbledore as a young man wanted it to resurrect his parents and make them look after his sister; Harry brought back the people he loved most so that he could have the strength to sacrifice himself and join them. He is Master of Death because he uses the stone in order to help himself accept death.

Afterwards, he refuses to go back for it or tell anyone where it is.

2) Rejecting the Elder Wand - he used it once to repair his own wand, so he could go on using that instead. He stated that the Elder Wand was more trouble than it was worth. He announced his intention to put it back in Dumbledore's tomb and not use it again. If that's not rejecting it, what is? The wand refuses to kill him because he is Master of Death, and he himself does not directly use the wand to kill.

That being said, I once wrote a Harry Potter/His Dark Materials crossover in which Harry did use the Stone and the Wand again... but only to ends that did not benefit him.
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[info]ikuko
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Time:2009-09-02 08:24 pm (UTC)

1) Rejecting the Stone - Harry used it only to make his own impending death easier

What difference does it make? It does not matter whither or not you use it, in fact, to be a true master of death you actually SHOULDN'T. Important that you HAVE them, as a true and deserving master. Therefore, it does not matter, where they are physically, you use them merely by owning them. Their most important quality is what they make you together.

Afterwards, he refuses to go back for it or tell anyone where it is.
Again, the only difference it makes is ensuring that Harry STAYS the only owner of the stone. Because no one else would be able to find it, and Harry is already its owner, no matter where it is.
Rejecting the Elder Wand - he used it once to repair his own wand, so he could go on using that instead. He stated that the Elder Wand was more trouble than it was worth. He announced his intention to put it back in Dumbledore's tomb and not use it again. If that's not rejecting it, what is? The wand refuses to kill him because he is Master of Death, and he himself does not directly use the wand to kill.

I see. You really did not understand what I wrote. Did you at least read the books? Where it states in plain English that wands learn from each other, more, that they imbue the power of each other when connected, especially whet they are kin to each other? Or that they get the intention of the master when he acts? It was explained by Dumbledore quite nicely at the end of DH. It follows that when Harry was fixing his own wand (see? wands are connected) by another of his own wands (see? they are kin through the master, not to mention that previous users ALSO made connection to Harry (DD owns Fawkes and protects Harry for years, Voldy is familiar through the wand connection to the point that holly wand fights him even when Voldy uses another wand) - Harry is actually transferring the power of the Elder wand into his own. Precisely because he is not intending to use Elder wand anymore, but forcing its entire power into fixing the holly one. And, also, because he is a true master of death and can do with hallows whatever he pleases. Wither he understands the meaning of his actions or not.
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[info]pathology_doc
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Time:2009-09-02 08:48 pm (UTC)
*sigh*

The only wands to learn from one another or imbue each other's power are Harry's and Voldemort's phoenix-core wands, and only because of very specific conditions which occur between their two particular owners.

It does not automatically follow that the Elder Wand transfers any of its powers or capabilities to Harry's phoenix-core wand when it repairs it, and I see no indication which supports this being the case.

Harry may remain the owner of the Hallows "no matter what", but he still rejects their power. If he had transferred the Elder Wand's superior capabilities to his own, there would have been no point in JKR having him put it back.
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[info]ikuko
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-03 05:15 pm (UTC)
Who ever said that only two wands are capable of it, or that the conditions were any different? No, really, did you read the book? Look what conditions were named in Harry's vision:
1. Kinship of wands; elder and holly are kin through the same master, and in many other ways I listed
2. close tie between Voldemort and Harry - it is still as close, and has the same nature as ever; for that matter, DD and Harry are also very close, lets just mention the Fawkes connection and creation of Harry's blood protection with the same Elder wand.
3. Voldemort attacks Harry with the wand in question - happened in the forest
4. Contact between the wands; and Harry actually jams Elder into holly.


Harry may remain the owner of the Hallows "no matter what", but he still rejects their power.

No, he does not. He still intends to use the cloak. As to the wand and stone, the true master of death is supposed not to use them. They are merely temptations to find the worthy one. But by possessing them without using he becomes master of death, which in itself is much greater power.

If he had transferred the Elder Wand's superior capabilities to his own, there would have been no point in JKR having him put it back.

Oh, for goodness sake. Please, I beg you, read the book. It is not about a moral tale and "sour grapes" bromide. It does not trying to force another credo of mediocrity "only those great ones are good who pretends to be just like regular joes, and does not embarrass us with unpleasant comparison". Of course there is a point. As DD said something like "only those are worthy of power who do not seek it, but pick up the mantle when they must and ... find that they wear it well". See? It is not about rejecting the power and the responsibility that come with it. It is about accepting it because no one else can, and not for fame or gain. Harry is not supposed to reject the mantle, he is supposed to wear it. Harry does not want the famous wand. But he IS a master of death, and his wand he creates is worthy of his power and suitable for his responsibilities.
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[info]tunxeh
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Time:2009-08-28 02:59 am (UTC)
Wow, a very interesting set of parallels. It all fits so neatly with canon.
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[info]dontgiveahoot
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Time:2009-08-28 04:03 am (UTC)
This essay, just like the one you posted the other day, is straight on target from start to finish. I love it. *clicks memories link*
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[info]quantumreality
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Time:2009-08-28 04:23 am (UTC)
I agree with the above comments. Superb analysis! I certainly like the parallels you've drawn.

I think that Voldemort, had he mastered the Elder Wand and Snape, had he obtained the Ressurection Stone from Dumbledore, would have gone on to the ends of obsession and madness over never having enough - Voldemort would have found one more person he needed to conquer and kill to achieve total domination, while Snape would have probably had that ring on 24/7, refusing to listen to Lily if she told him she was tired of being around him all the time.

... all the while, Harry, hidden under the Cloak, would be cautiously making his plans to end Voldemort once and for all, and watching Snape sadly as he sees what could have become of the Mirror of Erised had Dumbledore not shaken him loose from it. And then die a happy man, knowing he got to die after a natural, un-obsessed life.
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[info]indis_earfalas
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Time:2009-08-28 08:22 am (UTC)
Heh. You say all that, and I wonder how the hell I didn't see it for myself. LOL


One tiny thing I disagree with though, and its nitpicky as buggery, is that I think Snape did have a highly developed brain-to-mouth filter - there's no way he could have fooled Voldemort for so long, otherwise.
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[info]pathology_doc
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 10:13 am (UTC)
I don't think he had one to start with - certainly Lily had picked up enough of his pureblood-manic utterances to call him on it prior to the worst moment - but I will concede that he could have developed it quickly, probably as a result of the Worst Moment.
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[info]angakkuq
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Time:2009-08-28 11:52 am (UTC)
Duly noted and corrected. Thank you.
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[info]ravenstar84
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Time:2009-08-29 04:59 am (UTC)
I'll be nitpicky and buggery with you and say I agree. :) One of his worst qualities is that he adopted the bullying actions that were done to him and took it out on people that were considered weaker. I think he just let himself go when it came to his students or anyone else he didn't like. But he had to have a very intelligent and controlled side to him, which was why he was able to do his job. Snape is just too damn complicated. :-p
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(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 02:49 pm (UTC)
I've seen this suggested before (not suggesting you've pinched it, just a 'great minds think alike' experience).

But I have a question. There was a fourth boy - also a half-blood, also with a troubled childhood - who found a home at Hogwarts: Albus Dumbledore. Can he be fitted into the pattern? I guess he has elements of all three brothers in him, but in the end isn't any of them - he manages (though with lapses) to overcome the temptations of Voldemort and Snape, but he never manages to be Harry - as he says in Beedle the Bard, he would find the cloak easiest to refuse. Any thoughts?
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[info]pathology_doc
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 03:15 pm (UTC)
Good point, and not without its merits. However, I can see significant differences between Dumbledore and the other three. To wit, Tom Riddle never knew his parents and had a grim upbringing (nothing in the way of love, but no specifically directed brutality); Snape's father seems to have been a foul, abusive prick from the word go; while even if Harry couldn't remember his babyhood and his childhood was pretty miserable, he had at least known the love of his parents for a year before they died - and that must have helped in some way.

On the contrary, Albus seems to have had a reasonably normal childhood and possibly early adolescence, depending on exactly how old he was when Ariana was brutalized. All his issues stem from a later period in his life, with different influences on his character.
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[info]angakkuq
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Time:2009-08-28 03:27 pm (UTC)
You put it much better than I would have. Thank you.
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[info]dreamer_marie
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Time:2009-08-28 08:38 pm (UTC)
I haven't said this before, but I really, really enjoy all the essays you've posted. Is there anywhere you have more writing for us to enjoy?
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[info]angakkuq
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 08:39 pm (UTC)
*blush*

Um, the only place I've done any real meta-writing is here.
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[info]dreamer_marie
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-28 09:28 pm (UTC)
Do you write fanfiction? Original fiction? Blog posts about your cats? I'd love to check them out.
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[info]ravenstar84
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Time:2009-08-29 04:53 am (UTC)
This is officialy the first essay I've read that talked about this, and I thank you. :) I caught on to the Abandoned Boys being the Three Brothers a while back, and I wasn't sure if anyone else thought this deep into it. Voldy and Harry are an obvious, and it struck me that Snape would be the brother with the ring since his backstory was how he loved a girl he "once hoped to marry before her untimely death."
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(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-30 03:35 pm (UTC)
You have completely lost me at:
"He chose the latter, then spent the rest of his life moping over the fact that he couldn’t have both." point.

This is BS. First off, Snape's purpose in life is not even revenge against Voldemort (even though we talk about the very vindictive and vengeful man). Dumbledore manages to snap him from downright suicidal mood by giving him the idea of protecting Harry to latch on. This is pretty much inarguable (and saying that Snape ever sees Harry as a "tool" or "weapon" is pretty much indefensible) unless you believe that Snape not simply selectively edited, but outright faked large parts of his memories on the fly. But this is a speculation on the level of "he's just hiding", except less plausible. (Moreover, if you believe in the memory faking, any examination of Snape's motives automatically becomes nigh-impossible.) Anyway, at no point does Snape ever "mope" - on the contrary, he's exceptionally determined and driven in his goals.

Second, at no point he ever demonstrates any regret about leaving the Death Eater path. In fact, the man clearly hates his past self more than anyone else, judging by his choice of memory scenes given to Harry (which, remember, demonstrate that Young Snape The Death Eater was total scum, the fact that is directly underlined by Dumbledore's words, for those who failed to grasp it themselves). Such accusations are doubly stupid if you don't ascribe to MustacheTwirling!Dumbledore interpretation, as Snape obviously was his right hand, closest confidant, and, likely, the closest friend.

In short, the analysis on Snape from this point on pretty much disregards the canon.

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[info]angakkuq
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-30 03:57 pm (UTC)
All right, point taken.

The point I was trying to get across is that Snape spends too much time in self-hatred mode--and taking it out on everyone else.
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[info]pathology_doc
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-31 02:48 am (UTC)
"He chose the latter, then spent the rest of his life moping over the fact that he couldn’t have both."

To a certain extent, I think this is true. What he was more precisely moping about IMO is that his attempt to have both cost him the one that ultimately meant more to him. And in this context, moping doesn't have to mean curling up in his corner like a little emo baby and whining; it's manifested by the way he takes out his frustrations on Harry's circle of friends.

It shows he'd never grown out of his teenage bitterness towards James - childishness on Snape's part, since Harry surely didn't need to go on paying for his father's adolescent stupidities.

The only regret that Snape ever had about being a Death Eater was because it got his creepy-stalky childhood crush killed. If not for that, I suspect he'd happily have stayed with them. Everything he did after that, he did out of his feelings for a woman who already despised him and spurned him for his evil - not for Dumbledore, not for Harry, not for the Wizarding World or because it was the right thing to do. He only turned in an effort to save Lily; he couldn't care less about the others.

When he learned what was going to have to happen to Harry at the very end, he exploded at Dumbledore only because his "I'm protecting him for Lily" bubble had been punctured - not because he gave a fuck about Harry. In fact, he specifically denied giving a fuck about Harry. He exploded at Phineas Nigellus for using the word "mudblood" because he was still tortured by guilt about what his use of the word cost him. Just try and convince me he's not still "moping".
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[info]pathology_doc
Subject:OTT and not germane to this discussion, but...
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-31 02:59 am (UTC)
(Moreover, if you believe in the memory faking, any examination of Snape's motives automatically becomes nigh-impossible.)

Canon fact: we know what happens (from HBP) when a memory has been doctored; it comes through distorted in the Pensieve, as Slughorn's did.

Canon fact: We know that Snape is able to keep the truth about who he's working for (and why) from Voldemort. We know he was chosen to teach Harry occlumency because he's exceedingly good at it and because Dumbledore had reasons why he himself wanted to avoid a link with Harry's mind.

Extrapolation: he also seems to be able to keep from Voldemort the knowledge that he's even being blocked, else Voldie would smell a rat and use other methods.

Speculation: what if this means he's able to manufacture memories without the distorting effect being apparent? What if the truth is still hidden in a Pensieve somewhere, and what was given was something he'd fixed up beforehand and had planned to give Harry anyway? It could make for a very interesting fic...
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[info]ravenstar84
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-08-31 07:32 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't call it BS, but I agree with the majority of what Anon said. I think moping just isn't the right term to describe Snape. Don't get me wrong, I got your point from the essay overall of how Snape just sticks to his self-hatred mode. But moping, at least the way I was brought up using it, has always been attributed to overall laziness (e.g. Don't sit around like a mope). If Snape along with being so angry and bitter just sat around did nothing, then he would definitely be moping. So I can see why people would react strongly or just disagree that description.
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[info]angakkuq
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-02 01:01 am (UTC)
Point taken. Done.
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(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-02 04:28 am (UTC)
*applause*

(samanthacr.livejournal.com)
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(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-02 06:19 am (UTC)
This is really interesting, would you consider posting it on FictionAlley's HP Inkpot essay archive? http://www.hpinkpot.org/genres/essay.html

SwissMiss
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(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-02 08:19 pm (UTC)
Very interesting and well-written essay. Even if JKR never thought of this analogy and it was just a fluke, it still fits. Thank you for sharing!
(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lakme
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-03 01:43 am (UTC)
Very well done! Like I said, I love this idea and I hope it was intentional.

This is the stuff people should be dedicating tl;dr essays to HP on, not how Hermione is iron and therefore incompatible with because he is mercury or something.
(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-03 03:11 am (UTC)
Agreed!
(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]angakkuq
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-03 03:20 am (UTC)
You'll get no argument from me on that front. Unfortunately, too much of this fandom is made up of entitlement babies who refuse to recognize that they bought BOOKS--they did not enter into a contract with the author to get exactly what they wanted in the books--in short, that JKR never was, is not, and never will be their bitch.
(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-09-03 06:24 am (UTC)
...which is why I recently left the fandom. The sheer batshittery of the fandom makes my head hurt.
It frightens me a bit that people get *so* worked up over a few fictional characters.
Again, I agree with you on the fact that it's just a book they willingly bought, full well knowing that not everything they want will be fulfilled.
(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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