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The HMS STFU - Snapefen are doing a HP meme
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| anne_arthur - Ginny - ladette. Ginny, like Harry, is much nicer in Chamber of Secrets. I like the little girl who adores Harry and becomes very shy around him. I'm not so keen on the aggressive, feisty, quidditch-playing, anything-men-can-do-I-can-do-better type she becomes. But I suppose that being the only girl in a family of boys (and Mummy's little darling into the bargain) would do that to you.
You know...and someone here may have mentioned this already, but I've noticed a great amount of Snapefen seem to have a lot of disdain for women. Which is sad considering most of these people are women. From hating Lily because "she didn't help save Snape from himself" to calling Ginny a bitch because she doesn't take bullshit from anyone. I'm planning on writing a post on my livejournal about this issue.
Through Ginny hate could have it's own discussion since there are other factors for why some didn't like how her character fleshed out. Just that I notice not many people had that many qualms with the Twins' behavior, yet there was a huge backlash when Ginny started adopting their attitude. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) bigi | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-08 04:45 pm (UTC) |
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| | That's really most HP fen in general. Though they'll always say it's because those women don't live up to their ~feminist ideals~ and it's all because of how JKR fails at feminism and blah blah blah. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-08 05:41 pm (UTC) |
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| Arguing whether or not the female characters serve as feminist icons is one thing. Snapefen seem to have hate on any of the females characters who happen to be loved by others and/or come off as too "high strung", which goes back to people not wathing to see women being more defiant. Hermione doesn't get much hate, but I figure because she's proven she has a brain, which makes her worthy of being shipped with Snape. Attitudes like what ann_arthur said about Ginny are what I've seen in the way Snapefen regard her.
And the Lily bashing is a bit disturbing because the attitude that it's a woman's job or capability to take care of her man or saving the bad boy from himself has been ingrained in many cultures. (In my experience, a lot in western media) And if she doesn't do that, it's her fault if anything bad happens to the guy. And it's just infuriating to see all this hate on Lily, in order to glorify their favorite man. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | IMO anne_arthur seemed a little bit less biased by Snapefen standards compared to mary_j_59. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| So she likes just-Ron's-sister Ginny, but hates Harry's-perfect-girl Ginny? Feminism, ladies and gentlemen!
The romances in this story continue JKR's main theme--choice. James chose to change his ways at least partly because of Lily (and I imagine the Werewolf Incident changed his perspective as well, albeit slightly). Ginny got over Harry and decided she was going to act normal around him--which attracted him to her. She was Harry's ideal girl all along--Harry just got a bad first impression. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ikuko | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-08 04:40 pm (UTC) |
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| | I wonder, how did they figure Lily to be a social climber? I sort of can see where they tried to push their thoughts - she dropped Snape who was not very popular AMONG GRIFFINDORS (he seemed fine with his death-eater buddies) and some time after that hooked up with allegedly popular (AMONG GRIFFINRORS) Potter. Does it qualify as a social climber, unless she actually dropped Snape FOR James? And not for like, you know, being a jerk? Also, how social climber status sits with living quietly with her husband and child, fighting Voldemort and all that? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
lakme | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-09 12:17 am (UTC) |
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| | Poor Lily, I actually am beginning to think she gets worse treatment than James. At least we see James act like a jerk sometimes, with Lily all we ever do is see her act nice and sweet and fans project these things onto her like she's only nice to people who matter or she thinks she's so perfect. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I thought it was more that she clearly comes from a middle- to lower-middle class background (as a child, she lived close enough to Spinners End, which is described in ways that suggest it's in a not so nice area, that she can meet Snape) and she dropped her friendship with Snape (never mind that he was an utter asshole -- and I actually like him) for James, who was pureblooded and is heavily implied to come from an old-money family. So by marrying James, she theoretically jumped a social class or three. (If you take the Wizarding World's attitude toward blood purity into account the class difference gets wider. There's good evidence that it matters at least somewhat to a majority or wizards.) Of course, the Snapefen here assume that there is no other possible reason for Lily to pitch Snape and marry James. If you're already looking at things from the perspective that Snape is a woobie and James is evil, it's easy to get to the social climber part. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I had to consult multiple dictionaries to make sure I wasn't crazy in thinking that "misunderestimated" is not, in fact, a real word. I'd agree that Neville is *underestimated* (and a BAMF, but that's another point entirely), but that's pretty much the only bit I can agree with (or discuss at all until I've reread the later books because I had sorta forgotten about some of the characters mentioned, oops). | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| It's a Bushism. :)
That said it has an odd ring to it that makes it sort of amusing to use given the right context. XD | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Wow. Where to start? XD
(lemme dissect this a bit, kay?)
Severus - Grief, woundedness of soul, repentance.
woundedness of soul??!!! are you serious?!? XD
Dumbledore - the Schemer, the manipulator.
Oh yes, EVUL!!Dumbledore >:D. LOL.
Ginny - Valkyrie.
Molly - Erda, the earth mother (in both good and bad senses).
???? wth does that mean?
lily - aggressive. social climber.
If Lily is "aggressive", I must be a fucking sociopath. And "social climber", wtf?
the twins - bullies.
HAHAHAHAHAHA this is a joke, right? I'm not sure if mary_j_59 remembers that the kids who bought and tried F & G's products did it all on free will. And the twins always stopped when things got out of hand.
********
Neville - misunderestimated. And how! And perhaps especially by himself. He comes to Hogwarts convinced that he's the one who shouldn't be here, and (courtesy of Gran) with the full weight of his Heroic Martyred Parents on his shoulders; and somewhere along the way he learns to believe in himself, and becomes the Great Gryffindor Hero, the one Voldemort really should have gone after.
BAWWWWW, want a tissue there?
This community should feature Nevillefen once in a while. Seriously. The way they try to argue that Neville was better than Harry all along is so amusing. I mean, for 6 books we had a boy that was pretty much useless (Neville), extremely clumsy, who couldn't do anything right; and on the other side was Harry, who - coming from a muggle family - managed to do rather well (with the pressure of being famous and Snape picking on him), he adjust himself to the wizarding world, and -wow- saved the philosopher stone from Voldemort at 11 years old. Both Neville and Harry had similar backgrounds, both had relatives trying to lower their confidence (Petunia and Grandma), but it was Harry who managed to overcome that. How does that translate into Neville = badass? I don't know. Of course Neville did a lot of growth in book 7, but still that doesn't change the fact that Harry was always the true hero of the series.
Dumbledore - dangerous. Also charismatic. The more I look at Dumbledore, the less I think that he should be put in charge of an ice-cream van, let alone a school. He seems like a dreadful warning for Hermione - someone who has been lauded to the skies for his abilities, and has developed an ever more unquestioning belief in his own rightness, even as he goes ever more horribly wrong. He also seems to have shockingly little self-knowledge - either that, or he is a brazen lier. Perhaps both.
*pulls out Dumbledore's chocolate frog card*
Seriously, what happened to reading canon once in a while?! People wanted Dumbledore to be MINISTER, for God's sake!
"has developed an ever more unquestioning belief in his own rightness, even as he goes ever more horribly wrong."
ahem...
“Harry, I owe you an explanation,” said Dumbledore. “An explanation of an old man’s mistakes. For I see now that what I have done, and not done, with regard to you, bears all the hallmarks of the failings of age. Youth cannot know how age thinks and feels. But old men are guilty if they forget what it was to be young… and I seem to have forgotten, lately…”
Lily - madam. As in proper little madam. Self-centred would be another one. As above, really. But I have a horrible feeling that this might be quite a common result of being a muggleborn - you are the 'special' one in your family, and you give yourself airs as a result.
Hey, and how about your best friend thinking muggleborns are inferior? That certainly must give you "airs".
*rolls eyes*
Percy - desperate. I feel sorry for Percy. Sandwiched between the two well-adjusted older brothers and the terrible twins, he would clearly love to be noticed as much as Ron would.
Okay, now I know what kind of people defend Percy.
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bigi | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-08 09:30 pm (UTC) |
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| | To be fair to Neville, he was using his dad's wand for the first five books. With all the stuff about the importance of wands in DH, it probably didn't help him. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| When I saw that list over on the LJ in question I rolled my eyes so hard they hit my optic nerve because I could tell right off all the word associations would be sheer balderdash.
Kudos to you for dissecting the lot. :) | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| the twins - bullies.
HAHAHAHAHAHA this is a joke, right? I'm not sure if mary_j_59 remembers that the kids who bought and tried F & G's products did it all on free will. And the twins always stopped when things got out of hand.
Er... they didn't, always. Remember in OotP when they shove Montague into the Vanishing Cabinet for trying to dock house points, and then don't seem overly concerned about what happens to him next? I mean, it's true that he was being a bit of a jackass, but the guy could have died in there. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-09 10:54 am (UTC) |
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| > This community should feature Nevillefen once in a while. Seriously. The way they try to argue that Neville was better than Harry all along is so amusing. I mean, for 6 books we had a boy that was pretty much useless (Neville), extremely clumsy, who couldn't do anything right; and on the other side was Harry, who - coming from a muggle family - managed to do rather well (with the pressure of being famous and Snape picking on him), he adjust himself to the wizarding world, and -wow- saved the philosopher stone from Voldemort at 11 years old. Both Neville and Harry had similar backgrounds, both had relatives trying to lower their confidence (Petunia and Grandma), but it was Harry who managed to overcome that. How does that translate into Neville = badass? I don't know. Of course Neville did a lot of growth in book 7, but still that doesn't change the fact that Harry was always the true hero of the series.
The thing is, canon-Neville doesn't NEED the fanbrat makeover. He started out pretty hopeless as a wizard but worked hard and persevered (remember him in the DA in OotP?) and ended up as a Big Damn Hero anyway. I always liked Neville (and was worried that he'd somehow be tempted to the Dark Side a la Pettigrew) and loved his final defiance of Voldemort and subsequent snake-killing. But the thing is, there were a lot of Big Damn Heroes in DH (podgy, cowardly old Slughorn DUELLED SLYTHERIN when it came to the crunch) and they all fought. That doesn't change the fact that the Harry Potter series is a Hero's Journey plot, with Harry as THE hero. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-10 12:32 am (UTC) |
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| the twins - bullies.
HAHAHAHAHAHA this is a joke, right? I'm not sure if mary_j_59 remembers that the kids who bought and tried F & G's products did it all on free will. And the twins always stopped when things got out of hand.
I agree with everything else in your post, but this... really? You think Ginny is mean and bitchy and totally unworthy of being likened to Lily because she did things like get into a fight with Ron and didn't much like her rude and inconsiderate sister-in-law*, but you can't wrap your mind around the fact that someone could think the wonderful, wonderful twins were kind of bullyish? Really? Well, that's... interesting.
*I like Fleur, but come on, her behavior at the Burrow was sometimes just flat-out rude and difficult to excuse. Also, for the record, I love the twins and don't think they were bullies... but it's not incomprehensible to me how someone who still has issues over being teased as a child might think they were. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| I was thinking more along the lines of -
Snapefen: WRONG
Maybe with some sparkles to represent their special snowflake-ness. . . | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| James - arrogant. I do wish we'd seen another side to him
Hm, let me see. How about the time he went up against Voldemort - wandless - to buy some time for his wife and child, without any apparent hesitation or consideration of his personal safety? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
elektra3 | | Subject: | Belated tl;dr continuation. Warning for possible incoherence, as I'm tired and headache-y. | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2009-10-09 04:12 am (UTC) |
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| ...Which, come to think of it, seems to underscore a larger point: The Snapefen seem oddly resistant to the idea of characters changing and developing over time. James couldn't possibly have recovered from his case of Fifteen-Year-Old Assholitis; Dumbledore remained just as short-sighted and arrogant at 150 as he was at eighteen. Never mind James's selfless sacrifice, or the fact that Dumbledore spends over a century atoning for what he'd done, and still feels quite keenly what a fuck-up he was - no, whatever they were, they are and shall be, forever and ever, amen.
And isn't that appropriate, when you think of who their favorite character is? Snape's tragedy is that he never quite gets over being fifteen. He feels his hurts and humiliations just as keenly at thirty-five as he did at fifteen; his furtive yearning for Lily is preserved, perfectly, even after she's been dead for nearly two decades. He can't move on; he can't even imagine what it would be like to do so.
Guess it's not surprising that they identify with him so strongly, is it? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
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The HMS STFU - Snapefen are doing a HP meme
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