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The HMS STFU - Pride and Prejudice rides again...
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| | Subject: | Pride and Prejudice rides again... | | Time: | 02:15 am |
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| In which terri_testing tp;drs us to death over the damn thing, we find that she hasn't stopped to think that "Snape's Worst Memory" following the "werewolf prank" creates a basis on how to explain why Snape so clearly remembers the Marauders and why Lupin was so unusually withdrawn and diffident, since he would have been actively searching to get them expelled and any of James's goodwill to Snape after the werewolf-prank event would have presumably evaporated as soon as the old conflict flared back up.
But let's try and tackle some of that tp;dr (too pompous; didn't read):
Remus’s assurance that James had rescued Snape “at great risk to his life” had assured that parallel for me—until years later when I realized that James had always had the option of turning into his stag form and saving himself.
Oh, well, this is a fine howdyoudo. Does Ms Testing not realize that even in stag form, James could possibly have been overpowered by Remus in werewolf form?
Given the fact that Snape has never made reference to the Marauders being animagi, it stands to reason that James was, in fact, in human form and physically dragged Snape away as quickly as he could. You had better believe he'd have made the most possible capital out of knowing they were animagi come the events of "Prisoner of Azkaban".
Following on from this we get the usual BAAAAAAAAW about zomg James TORTURED poor Severus (come on, Snape's Worst Memory is so because under conditions of stress, he 'reverted' and didn't guard his tongue), never mind that as much a luminary as Sirius Black points out bluntly that he and James had been 'arrogant berks' and that Snape gave as good as he got.
JKR has mentioned being a fan of Jane Austen. I think that James was supposed to be a rewrite of Austen’s best-known hero, Mr. Darcy, and that (lower-born, but it’s SO rude to harp on that) Lily’s rejection of him in SWM was supposed to be James’s Pride and Prejudice moment.
Well, there's a change. Usually it's Snape being shoved into the position of Mr. Darcy with all the fanfics that make him talk like he's a walking Victorian Regency-era novel.
The thing goes on for paaaaaaaaaaaaaages and I can't be arsed to try and dissect it all - it is, after all, tp;dr, but I'll finish with this snippet from the very beginning of the piece.
Like many fans, I assumed before DH (back in my innocent youth, when I was willing to accept what JKR said about her characters, rather than minutely examining what she showed) that James as a boy might have been a bully and over privileged jerk, but that he’d grown out of it before Lily accepted his suit.
Translated: "I assumed before DH, back before I started deciding to mentally rewrite the books in my head and mine for the thinnest of possible canon hooks to hang such rewrites from, that the books were actually a nice read and that they were going to go the way I wanted them to."
*slow golf clap*
tl;dr: terri_testing's apparently decided to prove the limits of human endurance in reading pompous meta. | comments: Poke a delusional shipper     |
| | I believe it was a Snpefan who pointed out that there wasn't enough room in that tunnel for James to transform. Do they not even listen to each other any more? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) mcity | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-11 02:38 pm (UTC) |
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| | I know I overuse the "always at war with EastAsia" quote from 1984, but it makes perfect sense for these guys. They alter their interpretation of the books to fit their conclusions, and ignore contrary evidence. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | SIP was definitely the one to point this out at the CoS forums five or six or seven years ago, so no they do not listen to each other. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| back in my innocent youth, when I was willing to accept what JKR said about her characters, rather than minutely examining what she showed
That right there is the problem.
I also wish she'd stop going on about Jane Austen's novels, since they have nothing to do with the Harry Potter books, but everything else in the screed pales compared with this:
She didn’t know, as we do (and as JKR does), that James, like Tom Riddle, repeatedly let loose, for his own amusement, a monster which could kill most people it encountered (but which HE could control).
She means Remus. I think it's time to diagnose her with a fake disease: lycanthrophobia, aka "unreasonable terror and hatred of werewolves". Who's with me? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | That was her as well, was it? I should have guessed. I just don't get why she's got this obsession with werewolves. Perhaps she's afraid of large dogs? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-11 11:39 am (UTC) |
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| *She didn’t know, as we do (and as JKR does), that James, like Tom Riddle, repeatedly let loose, for his own amusement, a monster which could kill most people it encountered (but which HE could control).*
Logicfail x 1,000,000. It was stupid and irresponsible to let Lupin out while he was transformed. Riddle let out the basilisk to commit murder, nothing else. Why do they refuse to see the difference?
And if they want to be shitty with parallels like that, two can play that game. - We see two characters invent Dark Magic methods: Voldemort invented his restoration potion, Snape invented Sectumsempra. Of course, they'd probably try to argue that Sectumsempra was only for chopping veggies or potions ingredients. (rollseyes)
*She means Remus. I think it's time to diagnose her with a fake disease: lycanthrophobia, aka "unreasonable terror and hatred of werewolves". Who's with me?*
lol, sounds about right. Is she the one who always calls Lupin "the werewolf"? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Is she the one who always calls Lupin "the werewolf"? Yeah, that's her.
I'm starting to find it a bit creepy, actually. She's got this tremendous hatred for a creature that (a) doesn't exist in RL and (b) isn't hated in that way even by the characters in the book. Nobody calls Fenrir Greyback "it" or "the werewolf"; they call him "him" and "Greyback". Where are the HP characters who believe that werewolves, even when they're not transformed, are nameless, genderless monsters?
terri_testing is more scared of Remus than the HP characters are of Greyback. That really can't be normal. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-11 11:22 am (UTC) |
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| *Remus’s assurance that James had rescued Snape “at great risk to his life” had assured that parallel for me—until years later when I realized that James had always had the option of turning into his stag form and saving himself.
Oh, well, this is a fine howdyoudo. Does Ms Testing not realize that even in stag form, James could possibly have been overpowered by Remus in werewolf form?*
Yeah, Lupin in wolf form could have harmed James, too. But, I don't think James would have had room to transform in the tunnel - a group of teenagers had to stoop to go through it. Maybe at the end of it, there would have been room, but not the whole length of the tunnel.
*JKR has mentioned being a fan of Jane Austen. I think that James was supposed to be a rewrite of Austen’s best-known hero, Mr. Darcy, and that (lower-born, but it’s SO rude to harp on that) Lily’s rejection of him in SWM was supposed to be James’s Pride and Prejudice moment.*
1) Leave the wonderful Austen out of your bullcrap.
2) Lower born? Get the fuck over yourself. And yet another prime example of hypocrisy from the fen. The fen whinge that James and Sirius didn't like Snape because he was poor (because his fondness for Dark Magic had nothing to do with it, and Remus Lupin was just rolling in galleons.)
3) James did learn from that experience (Lily's harsh words, which he well deserved), Snape didn't and continued on the DE path.
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| lower-born
lower-born
"He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter; so far we are equal."
Considering these people can't understand a straightforward series of children's books, I'd hate to see the ravages they'd commit against Austen. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Dear terri_testing,
Please do me a small courtesy and cease invoking my name and characters in an effort to prove that your inane and, dare I say, asinine opinions of Joanne Rowling's works are the One True Reading. Thank you.
Sincere (albeit disrespectful) regards,
Jane Austen | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | So if James is Mr. Darcy and Lily is Lizzie..who is Snape, then? Mr. Collins? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | Pretty much. Mr. Collins is exactly what Snape would have been had he actually confessed his feelings to Lily. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | I don't think Mr. Collins is very much like Snape (other than annoying the crap out of most people). Mr. Collins seems more like Gilderoy Lockhart than Snape, in personality. In terms of love life I don't think Mr. Collins and Snape were very similar, either. Mr. Collins was sure he was a catch, and was more concerned with finding a wife, period. Sure he'd get attached to whomever he was currently pursuing, but when he finally believed that the pursuit had gone down in flames, he moved on. Snape was genuinely friends with Lily first and was so sure he wasn't a catch that he thought he needed to join the DE's (so stupid) to impress Lily. And Snape never moved on, although he did take no for an answer once Lily made it clear that the friendship was over. So, other than being a character that annoyed the crap out of most of the other characters, I'm not seeing a big connection to Mr. Collins and Snape. I can't think of anyone in Pride in Prejudice that would be a good comparison for Snape. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | Since Mr. Collins gets to marry Elizabeth's best friend and seems quite happy with this outcome, I think she probably means Mr. Wickham = Snape. Because Mr. Wickham was also most unfairly treated by Mr. Darcy. And Elizabeth was totally on his side until that evil Mr. Darcy fed her with all these lies about him, making her abandon her true friend Mr. Wickham and turning towards Mr. Darcy instead. o_O | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-11 08:35 pm (UTC) |
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| | regency. austen is regency, not victorian. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | People who make that mistake, or who claim any of her books are in any way "Gothic" make me feel murderous. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | Oh crap. P & P again (which I just noticed could also stand for Pompous and Painful, just like the bloody essay)? All I need is the other lot to mention bloody alchemy again (heh, it's been a while with that) and I can really fall asleep. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-12 02:36 pm (UTC) |
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| terri_testing:
If you're reading this, you need to realize you're deeply overinvested in a fictional character. The amount of meta you produce about this character indicates a scary level of obsession. It's also pointless; those you are going to agree with you already do, and as you've surely noticed by now, you're not convincing anyone else.
I've had a great time laughing and pointing, but now you're honestly starting to scare me. Step away from the computer. Read something else. And maybe get help. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-12 02:37 pm (UTC) |
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| | I do know she'll probably never see this, much less heed it, but I needed to give it a shot. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2010-10-12 07:51 pm (UTC) |
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| From a comment:
I do wonder what would have happened that night if Lupin had, in fact, either killed Severus, or changed him into a werewolf. Probably nothing for the latter, and in the former, I wouldn't be surprised if Sirius had done a Barty/falseMoody and turn him into a bone which he then buried.
That's...that's DISGUSTING.
So cruelty and violence are, in fact, entirely acceptable to Lily, so long as she can argue that the victim ‘deserved it’.
She’d undoubtedly have approved of Harry’s Cruciatus.</i>
These people are sick. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Get this (*Sporfles*):
And finally, SEVERUS was the one who, we find out, truly paralleled Darcy’s reformation—once we place very firmly at the front of our minds the fact that Lily, unlike Lizzie, never reproved her suitor(s) for, um, incivility.
DID SHE EVEN READ THE BOOKS AT ALL?
You know, the part where Lily gets really pissed off at him calling her a Mudblood?
*is now facepalming* | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-20 05:41 am (UTC) |
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| | I always assumed that Sirius's prank happened before they became animagi. In my mind (which, unlike terri and others, I'm willing to change if I learn something that contradicts it), the prank happened around their fourth year. They didn't become animagi until their fifth year. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
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The HMS STFU - Pride and Prejudice rides again...
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