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The HMS STFU -
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| Wanky Snapewives are very active this month.
Harry’s Unpopularity: A Conspiracy Theory by terri_testing.
Some quotes:
Harry’s remarkably hard to get to know, isn’t he? Remarkably hard to get close to? The only people who seem to really like Harry for himself as of the beginning of OotP are Hagrid, the Weasleys, Hermione, and Sirius.
How sure are we, really, that this reflects some flaw in Harry?
Because, consider two final things.
First, it’s convenient for Dumbledore, isn’t it, that Harry grows up with no attachment to the Muggle world, neglected, so emotionally deprived he is ready to latch on to the first friendly faces he sees? By some odd coincidence, his only relatives hate and fear magic and transfer that attitude automatically to their new ward. And by yet another odd coincidence, Harry’s first friends are among Dumbledore’s staunchest supporters.
I’m disinclined to trust in coincidences that just happen to further the Twinkly One’s plans. In fact, that are integral to it. What would have happened to Dumbles’ plans had Harry been loved by the Dursleys and absorbed their attitude to magic, or had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?
Secondly, Hermione told us, on the authority of the books that she stole from Dumbledore, that it is dangerous to become “too fond of or emotionally dependent on” a Horcrux object. If someone makes the error of getting “close emotionally” to the Horcrux, the encased soul-fragment may be enabled to flit out and possess the fond fool.
Harry is a Horcrux, and I’ve previously suggested that Twinkles was perfectly cognizant of that fact when he parked that Horcrux with Lily’s Muggle relatives.
I had thought that it was shocking of Twinkles to subject poor Petunia (and her family, and all the Muggles in Harry’s neighborhood and school) to the risk of being possessed.
But maybe he didn’t.
Maybe Twinkles had taken precautions against that eventuality.
Petunia’s family and neighbors, and the kids at Harry’s school, were, after all, only at risk of possession if any of them became fond of the boy.
The WW has Love Potions. And their antidotes. Entrancing Enchantments. And, presumably, their counterspells. The Veela-glamour… and there must be spells to resist that, or the refs would have given the match to Bulgaria.
If attraction/interest, whether sexual or otherwise, can be artificially created or enhanced by magic, might it not also be artificially suppressed?
Is there an enchantment, or a potion, that inhibits attraction/affection/love from developing? Oh, maybe no spell could stop True Love any more than it could start it—but could one, perhaps, put people off initially? Leave them cold?
...
Now, supposing there were such a thing and Twinkles had used it on the Harrycrux, consider Harry’s introduction to the WW. Not only does Harry need to be recruited into a political camp, but also the degree of danger posed by the potentially-infectious Horcrux must eventually be evaluated. Harry is venerated as the Boy-Who-Lived—at some point someone’s going to be fond enough of the idea of Harry to be at risk, even if s/he doesn’t actually like the boy for himself.
So, it would be prudent to select a few companions for Harry whose subsequent reactions can be carefully monitored.
Give Harry, for the first time since he was a toddler, people who are not magically inhibited from liking him (or who he’s not inhibited from liking), let friendships develop, and watch how long it takes before the friends become possessed, and what the signs are.
Now, since part of the point is indoctrination, one would naturally choose Harry’s possible friends only from among people who strongly hold the correct beliefs—the dogmas of the headmaster’s infallibility and the inferiority of dirty Slytherins, for example. | comments: Poke a delusional shipper     |
| | There is no palm large enough to encompass the magnitude of my facepalm at this self-admitted conspiracy theory by terri_testing and hangers-on from Snapedom. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
bellomee13 | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 12:25 am (UTC) |
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| First, it’s convenient for Dumbledore, isn’t it, that Harry grows up with no attachment to the Muggle world, neglected, so emotionally deprived he is ready to latch on to the first friendly faces he sees? By some odd coincidence, his only relatives hate and fear magic and transfer that attitude automatically to their new ward. And by yet another odd coincidence, Harry’s first friends are among Dumbledore’s staunchest supporters.
It's called Theory of Narrative Casualty, dumbass
had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?
Malfoy was the first wizard Harry really interacted with after Hagrid, and Harry thought he was a complete asshole. Unless you're seriously arguing that Dumbledore somehow manipulated Malfoy into being in Madame Malkins at the exact same time as Harry, and to make a git of himself in the process thus ensuring that Harry would be uninterested in being his friend. Although I wouldn't be surprised if you did.
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| I really would like to know where this 'house obessesion' comes from.
Harry dislikes Draco because he was a jerk to him, not because of his house.
It's the same with the Weasley's. He likes them because they were nice to him, not because they're all Gryffindors.
It's the same with Snape, it's his attitude, not his house that turns Harry off. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) ayala_atreides | | Subject: | I apologize in advance for the capslock | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 12:32 am (UTC) |
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First, it’s convenient for Dumbledore, isn’t it, that Harry grows up with no attachment to the Muggle world, neglected, so emotionally deprived he is ready to latch on to the first friendly faces he sees? By some odd coincidence, his only relatives hate and fear magic and transfer that attitude automatically to their new ward. And by yet another odd coincidence, Harry’s first friends are among Dumbledore’s staunchest supporters.
I’m disinclined to trust in coincidences that just happen to further the Twinkly One’s plans. In fact, that are integral to it. What would have happened to Dumbles’ plans had Harry been loved by the Dursleys and absorbed their attitude to magic, or had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?
OH MY GOD IT'S JUST A CHILDREN'S BOOK
A CHILDREN'S BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK
THERE IS NO GRAND CONSPIRACY TO BRAINWASH HARRY SO HE'S BIASED AGAINST SLYTHERINS, OR TO MAKE HIM DUMBLEDORE'S LITTLE SUICIDE MARTYR VOLDY-KILLING MACHINE.
IT'S A PRETENDY FUNTIME STORY ABOUT A LITTLE BOY WHO GROWS UP NEGLECTED, THEN GOES AWAY TO A MAGICAL WORLD WHERE HE MAKES MAGICAL FRIENDS WHO ARE NICE TO HIM WHEN NO ONE ELSE HAS BEEN NICE TO HIM. LATER ON, IT GETS KIND OF DARKER AND MORE GROWN-UP, BUT IT IS STILL A PRETENDY FUNTIME STORY ABOUT MAGICAL BOY AND HIS MAGICAL FRIENDS. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Subject: | Re: I apologize in advance for the capslock | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 01:48 am (UTC) |
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| THIS times a million.
-auburnhaircurl | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| What makes even less sense here was that Dumbledore wasn't even sure Harry was a Horcrux when he sent him to live with the Dursleys, so the idea he was testing this is dumb. He didn't know probably until book six, and he wasn't sure Horcruxes were involved until then, the first clue was probably the journal in book two.
I like how she bends reality to make her theory work. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Dumbledore himself says he didn't realize the Horcruxes existed until the diary was destroyed. He didn't get the Harry part until book six.
The Snapefen will probably say he's an unreliable narrator, though, despite the fact he's not the narrator. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| You know who actually controlled every single aspect of Harry's life? J.K. Rowling. If she didn't write it or say it, it didn't happen.
And they need to stop calling Dumbledore some variety of "Twinkle". Those of us who are old enough to have watched Three's Company recognize it as a homophobic slur -- and most Snapedomers are at least as old as me. There is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt about this, after their unrelenting misogyny and racism. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I think oryx is lifting from all the fanfics in which Dumbledore has his Obligatory Eye Twinkle thanks to that bit about his eyes in the Philosopher's Stone. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| What would have happened to Dumbles’ plans had Harry been loved by the Dursleys and absorbed their attitude to magic, or had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?
1) If Harry had been loved by the Dursley, then their attitude towards magic would have changed, because that's what loving someone means. Also, Petunia was already a bitch to her sister about magic, Dumbledore didn't need to do anything, even if he did have such a stupid plan.
2)Horcruxes do not make it easier for associates to influence the container. Horcruxes influence the associates. So if Malfoy had somehow stopped being a little brat and become friends with Harry, then Malfoy most likely would have adopted Harry's ideals. Which means the same things happen as before if your batshit theory had any merit.
3)Why is terri_testing anywhere close to assuming that 1/8 of a soul piece could in any way unduly and overwhelmingly influence Harry's own whole soul? Voldemort's little shitstain would have to be 8 times as strong as Harry's soul for that to work. This isn't even theoretical; this is simple math.
In other words: what the fuck is she talking about, this doesn't have any logic whatsoever. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 03:51 am (UTC) |
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| | Funny how this was never mentioned in the books. You think it would have been important enough to mention. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Jesus Christ, I can't even make sense of this shite. Not just in the `I don`t have my Batshit-to-English translator on me right now` way, but literally, I can`t read this, it coming off like gibberish to me.
So, Harry`s unpopular in the Muggle world because Dumbledore gave EVERY MUGGLE HE`S EVER COME INTO CONTACT WITH a repulsion charm to stop them being fond of him, but he`s super-popular in the WW because wizards don`t need these repulsion charms, but he`s only got a few close close friends (if you can count, like, ten people as a ``few`` close friends, it`s certainly more close-ish relationships than any Slytherin in the book I remember having), because Dumbledore gave them super-charms that would--
GAH. Fuck it, I quit. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 12:41 pm (UTC) |
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| Thing is, as a one-off AU fan-fic, clearly marked as such, it might be a decent idea to kick around. In fan-fic, it might work, and it might be interesting (if it didn't devolve into Dark Lord Potter) to work through Harry's reaction of betrayal. But I certainly don't think it happened in canon!
I love me some manipulative!Dumbledore, (not evil, mind) but this is taken the biscuit. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| How exactly does ron count as a dumbledore supporter when he's 11? If Percy shows anything, it's that just coming from the weasly family doesn't mean you're going to follow their ideas.
Plus, I'm pretty sure young run reffered to dumbledore as mad,barking, and a slew of other things more than once. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
mcity | | Subject: | That a lot of "supposing". | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 03:38 pm (UTC) |
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| >I’m disinclined to trust in coincidences that just happen to further the Twinkly One’s plans.
What is it with assuming every "wise leader" character has to be some sort of thousand-eyed Argus? There's this thing on TVTropes where any time an mastermind fails because of some random event, it's considered bad writing, despite how much it happens in real life. We get to see inside the head of one of these characters in Codex Alera, and it's pretty clear he doesn't have some grand master plan; he's focused mostly on what's in front of him, with half an eye on the horizon. Assuming Dumbledore would have to resort to choosing which train carriage Harry sits in is rather absurd.
>or had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?
While it would make for an interesting AU where Harry, Ron, and Hermione is in Gryffindor, and his friend Malfoy is a Snapefen, leading to conflict throughout the books over their conflicting ideologies, the fact remains that Harry's first real introduction to Draco was Draco being a dick.
>If attraction/interest, whether sexual or otherwise, can be artificially created or enhanced by magic, might it not also be artificially suppressed?
You have not merely gone off the rails. You have sent the nitroglycerin train flying off a cliff towards the sleepy town of Orphanageville, orphanage capital of the USA, which happens to be currently hosting the National Puppies 'n Kittens convention and trade show. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| (Anonymous) | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2011-02-17 04:31 pm (UTC) |
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| Harry’s remarkably hard to get to know, isn’t he? Remarkably hard to get close to? The only people who seem to really like Harry for himself as of the beginning of OotP are Hagrid, the Weasleys, Hermione, and Sirius.
So basically what I'm getting from this is that Harry isn't allowed to be introverted as part of his personality; obviously, he's been magically drugged his entire life, because real people can never keep to themselves, internalize a lot of their feelings, and not become bestest friends with every person they meet.
...my god somebody's drugging my water supply!
(Oh, hey, guys? Plenty of people like Harry. He's generally a pleasant person to be around, and all of the teachers bar Snape say he's a likable and decent student. He's just, you know... an introvert? Is that not allowed?) | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I wonder if maybe her super skills at 'reading between the lines' kept her from seeing any of the actual text in the books. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Where to begin? Where to begin? (this is going to be long)
Oh, let's start with this:
Harry’s remarkably hard to get to know, isn’t he? Remarkably hard to get close to? The only people who seem to really like Harry for himself as of the beginning of OotP are Hagrid, the Weasleys, Hermione, and Sirius.
How sure are we, really, that this reflects some flaw in Harry?
Okay, considering that you (Territesting) then go on to talk about the Dursley's as part of this, let me start off with a hearty fuck you over the (hopefully) unfortunate implication that being horrifically neglected and abused means that the abusee (a CHILD) must have some 'flaw', or that there must be something he did to have invited the abuse, and if not then IT MUST BE MAGIC.
It's made pretty clear in the second chapter of the very first book that the reason Harry has no real friends is because Dudley goes out of his way to beat the crap out of anyone trying to be buddy buddy with his cousin.
Fuck you. Sit in the corner.
First, it’s convenient for Dumbledore, isn’t it, that Harry grows up with no attachment to the Muggle world, neglected, so emotionally deprived he is ready to latch on to the first friendly faces he sees? By some odd coincidence, his only relatives hate and fear magic and transfer that attitude automatically to their new ward. And by yet another odd coincidence, Harry’s first friends are among Dumbledore’s staunchest supporters.
1) No it is not 'convenient' to Dumbledore for Harry to be abused, neglected, and have no attachment to the Muggle world. That Harry is amazingly well adjusted given his upbringing and doesn't loathe Muggles (as, you know, Tom Riddle, in the same general situation, certainly got a lot of his anti-Muggle attitude from), is a blessing, because he could have eeeasily been a bitter, mal-adjusted kid who has no real memories of ever being cared for, or a little mini-Tom Riddle in the making, incapable of caring for others and focused only on his own gain and self promotion. None of these would have helped Dumbledore in the slightest, even if he was mister super evil mastermind.
2) Dumbledore is the Muggle supporter, remember? Giving Harry every reason to hate, or at the very least, not care about Muggles is not in the best interests of his goals.
3) It's not an 'odd coincidence' that his only relatives hate and fear magic. Aren't you lot constantly on and on and on about things stated in The Prince's Tale? It was made pretty explicitly clear there just where this attitude came from for Petunia, if you somehow missed all the jealousy overtones in the other books. That's not a coincidence. We were shown exactly how that came about in as succint a way as possible without bogging down the narrative.
4) As someone already pointed out, Ron was basically like 'yeah, Dumbledore's neat, but he's also insane' and Hermione is Muggle-born with only recent contact with the wizarding world. (It's been a while, I can't remember if Dumbledore was the one to explain the whole wizard thing to her and her parents or if my brain is just making that up. Either way, at most she's met him once). Hagrid loves and adores Dumbledore because Dumbledore treats him like an equal, and made sure he had somewhere to go when he got wrongly expelled from school. So in other words, only one of these people were 'one of his staunchest supporters' and the reason why he was is because Dumbledore was a really damned decent person to him, and continued to be his entire life, especially when other people were cheerfully treating him like shit. Dumbledore has a lot of supporters. Hey, guess what, Snape was one of those 'staunchest supporters' (in his own way, at least).
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| | Terri's overuse of "Twinkly One" and "Twinkles" is making me think of a Twinkie dressed in drag. Hrm... | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I'm not going to get into the popularity bullshit, because ugh.... but...
The only people who seem to really like Harry for himself as of the beginning of OotP are Hagrid, the Weasleys, Hermione, and Sirius.
Neville says hi!
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The HMS STFU -
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