The HMS STFU

The last of the really great mod posts

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:21:36 GMT

Dear the_hms_stfu members,

This comm has been running for a long time - we've been on JF since September 2005, and were on LJ before that. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince had just come out, and canon deniers were wanking up a storm. Gradually that died down, but the Snapewives were there to pick up the slack.

For a while, though, we've been running on empty. J. K. Rowling gave us the last piece of the canon in 2007, apart from little bits in interviews and the Scottish Book (and who knows when that's going to be published). The crazy shippers have dispersed or locked down, and the Snapewife fervor has been replaced by a kind of forced-but-determined refusal to make any sense. Gone are the days of total batshit insanity and really memorable wank.

And recently we've had a few wanks of our own. Kind of serious ones, too, that have gotten us on unfunny_fandom and made us look bad. That plus the unexceptional nature of what tends to get posted here has made us reconsider the future of this comm. We have decided that the_hms_stfu has had a good run, but it is time for it to close. There will be no new posts here, and you will have to go to dedfromsnake for your Snapewank fix.

Yours,

the mods

(ETA: Thanks for your kind words, you guys. We'll always have Paris!)

MODERATOR NOTICE

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:02:30 GMT

Comments on all posts are disabled and posting access has been switched to moderated until the three mods have come to a decision about what to do with the HMS STFU and it's current state of complete fuckwittery.

MODERATOR UPDATE

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 04:34:54 GMT

Anonymous commenting is closed.

MODERATOR ALERT

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 04:02:01 GMT

I will consult with the other mods including our Lord High Mod Das Mervin
as to the wisdom of ending anonymous comments here, either temporarily or permanently.

I am so looking forward to reading a bunch of comments here from white women who are trying to more sensitive-than-thou. You guys love to wank about how Snapefen can't distinguish fact from fiction. Guess what? The Dark Mark is also FICTION. As a non-white woman, I couldn't care less whether somebody had a tattoo of the DM.

And to compare a gang of evil wizards from a series of childrens books to the true horror of fascism just really trivialises fascism.

Also, different strokes for different folks. I know it's shocking, but sometimes readers have different opinions on HP. I for one thought the Voldemort = Nazi comparisons were really badly handled, and very inconsistent. As somebody from a country with a long colonial past the House-Elf and Goblin storylines annoyed me to no end.

The first sentence, people and full-of-their-own-badselves-nonnies is the kicker. I don't care how finely tuned ANYONE'S Magic 8 Ball is, that's one mother of an assumption right there.

The resulting dog pile is another factor. There are, I know, a boat load of adults here, journalfen is built that way. It might be well on occasion to IGNORE an obvious troll. It might be well not to engage in -ist conversations.

The STFU made unfunny_fandom. Again. Quite right too. Nothing funny going on here.

The opening sentence of the above-quoted response is the online equivalent of Setting It Off. The avalanch of responses shows how easily people are willing to join in.

Comments to this post are closed. What happens next, I don't know. I'm not the only mod. My vote is either to close anonymous commenting or delete this community. We'll see.

Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:20:57 GMT

People on SF Drama are wanking about HP.

http://community.livejournal.com/sf_drama/3194279.html?thread=596049063

http://community.livejournal.com/sf_drama/3194279.html?thread=596054183

ETA: the poster who wanted a Dark Mark tattoo is a Nazi fetishist.

Part 2

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 05:56:17 GMT

Also known at the part where Neville literally considers snapping Harry's neck on a whim

"Course. You'll see." He motioned ahead to where the other door had just appeared around the final bend. "We're here."
Neville climbed through first, greeting the D.A. with a broad grin that showed no trace of uncertainty. "Look who it is!" he cried. "Didn't I tell you?"

Harry was right behind him, and the room seemed to explode the moment his face appeared. A solid wall of young witches and wizards surged towards him, burying him and moments later Ron and Hermione as well in sobbing hugs and back-pounding embraces, ruffling their hair and kissing them and shaking their hands in an outpouring of giddy emotion. The shouts and cries were deafening, wonderful, the sounds of pure joy and hope fulfilled, but Neville knew that this could go on all night, and there was no time.

Ron: That’s a lot more dramatic sounding than I remember it.

Ginny: Everything in this story is more dramatic than I remember it. And infinitely stupider.

<snip for canon with some lines that make Neville ridiculously pretensious added in such as>

The Lieutenant nodded towards him, and he smiled faintly in embarrassment at the tone of open praise.

Neville: Ugh. I hate how this author makes Seamus’s praise that really happened sound like more unnecessary gushing to the alter of my majesty.

Harry: He really ruins everything.

"It's quite straightforward, really," Neville said with deliberate casualness.

Hermione: You mean false modesty?

Ron nodded with a look of great authority, brushing his red hair back from his eyes in a motion that made Neville suddenly and desperately miss Ginny.

Ginny: Er. Why does it sound creepy when he says that?

Hannah: Because everything he says sounds creepy.

Ginny: Right, forgot myself there

"Yeah, well, food's one of the five exceptions to Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration." A look of open astonishment passed amid the Ravenclaws, among whom it had long been commonly accepted that Hermione was wholly and completely the brains of the famous trio, and Ron blushed, shrugging.

Hermione: Wow, unnecessary exposition.

Ron: So what, they just thought Harry and I were complete clueless dolts and Hermione had to do every bit of thinking for us?

Hermione: *clears throat and looks away*

Ron: Hey now! Cheap shot!

Hermione: I didn’t say anything…though, you DID learn that from me…actually, what surprised me here was realizing you actually listen to me.

Ron: I always listen to you. You talk so loudly I couldn’t shut your voice out if I wanted to.

Hermione: Well I could say the same-

Luna: Why is it only the Ravenclaws reacting? Are we the Intelligence Guard now? Hmmm, perhaps we should make badges…

Harry: Thanks for cutting that off, Luna.

"So we've been hidin' out here for nearly two weeks," Seamus continued, and Neville didn't bother to correct him that it was actually more like three, given that the Lieutenant had been unconscious for most of the first. "And it just makes more hammocks every time we need them, and it even sprouted a pretty good bathroom once girls started turnin' up –"

Ginny: Wow, what a spectacular attempt at arse covering. He really works hard to backpedal on those small mistakes.

" – and thought they'd quite like to wash, yes," said Lavender with a significant look towards Hermione that Neville had come to recognize as the internationally accepted female signal for boys will be boys.

Hermione: Universal female signal?

Ginny: Yes, according to the great NevilleStu, we have one. For instance, when I show him two fingers, that’s the universal female signal for “FUCK OFF, YOU SEXIST PIG.”

Luna: I thought that it was we could communicate in a language undetectable to the male ear, like bats. Or hippogriffs, secretly.

Hannah: That too, but sometimes we just prefer to reinforce gender stereotypes through invisible rays of eye contact.

(Seriously, this is was I mean about Thanfiction going out of his way to make any small problem in canon eye-rollingly worse?. It wasn’t enough to have that idiotic scene of the men living in their own filth until the women finally come and be domestic and clean up their mess for the lazy asses, we have to have this clichéd “hive vagina” aside that turns an acceptable scene from canon eyerollingly ridiculous)

Ernie had just appeared at the foot of the staircase that went to the upper level, and Neville noticed that his shirt was wrinkled with a small wet patch on one shoulder, and he knew with a pang of regret that the good-bye between he and his wife must have been tearful. For both of them, given the redness that still lingered in the hazel eyes

Ginny: Oh, the tragedy! The heartbreak! NO ONE WILL EVER SEE THOSE TEARS HE HIDES BEHIND THOSE HAZEL EYES.

(Ginny is not aware she is unwittingly referencing an overplayed pop song)

<canon sweet canon>

But Harry didn't answer. His face turned suddenly, terribly pale, and the green eyes rolled to white before squeezing shut in obvious agony as he tried to turn away from them, then collapsed as his knees buckled beneath him. Sally-Anne screamed,

Ginny: As girls do…

but Ron seemed almost to have expected it,

Ron: Yeah, you get used to Harry passing out after a while

Harry: Hey!

and he moved like lightning,

Ron: LIKE A LIGHTNING BOLT SCAR.

catching his best friend and holding him up as Harry's face began to bead with cold sweat,

Luna: I’m sorry, you two, but that seems awfully slashy to me.

Ron: I believe Americans would refer to the deep bond Harry and I share as a “bromance”.

Harry: What.

Hermione: Ron, I am never showing you the internet again.

his lips parted slightly and trembling as he clutched desperately at the scar.

Neville and Ernie exchanged a horrified look, and he knew that the other man was thinking, as he was, of Ginny's words at their very first officer's meeting. I think Harry's trying to get himself possessed.

Ginny: AHAHAHA! I forgot about that stupidity.

Ron: Wait, what? Why would Harry want to...huh?

Harry: Apparently everyone in this fic thinks I’m a moron and wants to vilify me.

Ginny: Honestly, if I ever thought Harry would try something like that, I’d go out and murder him myself.

Had she been right? Had they inadvertently invited their worst enemy into their midst in the guise of their greatest hope? A silent agreement passed between them, and Ernie circled around behind Ron, leaning forward as if in concern, but the massive hands that rested so lightly on the back of Harry's shoulders could snap his neck between heartbeats.

Ron: …WHAT.

Harry: Wow, I lasted three minutes in this fic before they tried to murder me. Longer than I expected!

Neville: Well, naturally. You’re taking the spotlight off me, so you have to die.

Ron: They want to snap his neck at the drop of a hat what is this.

Ginny: Poor Ron. I can tell you’re new.

Allowing nothing but attentiveness to show on his face but drawing his wand unnoticed at his side, Neville put his own hand on Ron's arm, ready to yank him out of the way or strike him down as needed.

Ron:… when did Neville become a serial killer.

Ginny: Around chapter 2.

Hermione: I can assure that the second Neville tried to hurt Ron, I would have had him up in the air so I could check which Death Eater had Polyjuiced themselves as him before he could finish waving his wand.

Neville: Yeah, Mr. Weasley already tried that, but my doppelganger wiggled out of it.

Hermione: So much for any friendship Neville was supposed to have with us, I guess. He’d apparently kill us remorselessly at the first sign of trouble.

"Are you all right, Harry?" he asked solicitously. "Want to sit down? I expect you're tired, aren't –"

Harry: It’s nice to learn that Neville was just faking concern for me while really plotting to kill me because of some contrived reason during that moment. Here I’d thought he actually cared about me!

Neville: I’d just like to reiterate that I wasn’t thinking anything remotely like this at the time.

Harry: We know, Neville. Hey, what were you really thinking?

Neville: Hmmm…that you were really weird and were going to need a lot of therapy after all this was over.

Harry: …thanks for the honesty.

There was a shake of the tousled black head, then the green eyes opened again, and they were his, a little vague, a little rattled, but very much Harry's.

Harry: Yes, I know it’s a disappointment you don’t have an excuse to eliminate me.

<canon + pretensious rambling as per usual!>

"Plan?" Harry echoed the word as if he had never heard it before, and his eyes had grown distant again as he touched the scar without seeming to realize he was doing it. The color still had not returned to his face, and Ron was clearly braced to catch him again.

Ron: Apparently I’m Harry’s fainting couch now.

Harry: Shut up!

"Well," he said vaguely, "there's something we – Ron, Hermione, and I – need to do, and then we'll get out of here."

A cold silence descended over the D.A. Neville took a deep breath, reminding himself that Harry was in a lot of pain and had just come within moments of passing out completely.

Harry: It’s okay, I’m used to it.

"What do you mean, 'get out of here'?" he asked cautiously.

"We haven't come back to stay," Harry explained, rubbing at the scar harder now, as if he were trying to scrub it off his skin.

Neville: No, only my doppelganger scrubs stuff off his skin to the point of bleeding!

"There's something important we need to do –"

"What is it?" Neville pressed.

"I – I can't tell you."

Neville frowned deeply. Surely, glossed-over briefing or not, in pain or not, Harry could see that they weren't a bunch of kids any more.

Harry: Actually, no, you looked like a bunch of kids my age to me who had been through a lot. Certainly not hardened he-man killing machines with no souls.

Ron: Well, I guess we were just too stupid and puny to notice.

Still, he decided to give the other wizard the benefit of the doubt. He didn't, after all, have any idea what exactly happened mentally or how bad the pain was when a curse scar from You-Know-Who himself went off.

Harry: It’s really okay, I’m used to it.

"Why can't you tell us? It's something to do with fighting You-Know-Who, right?"

"Well, yeah –" Harry's voice seemed to come from somewhere very far away.

"Then we'll help you," Neville replied firmly, realizing that he was going to have to take the lead after all. Harry was back, but he was also sick or hurt or…something a lot worse than it had first seemed.

Harry: No, really, I was fine.

Hermione: Well, you didn’t agree with everything Neville said, so clearly you must have been deeply mentally ill.

<moar canon>

"We're his army," Neville pointed out, speaking deliberately and a little slowly, but careful not to sound patronizing.

Ginny: As usual, he failed.

Neville: It’s really fantastic how they can make words I actually said sound condescending and rude.

"Dumbledore's Army. We were all in it together, we've been keeping it going while you three have been off on your own – "

Ron seemed to have recognized much more what was going on around him, and he flashed Neville a look of defensiveness that bordered on fury.

Ron: Wait, what did I notice?

Ginny: That you were surrounded by more *tragic* and *experienced* warriors than yourself who had gone through an *epic transformation*

Hermione: Maybe you’ve realized you’re in the wrong universe and being patronized by an obnoxious imitator. That would explain the random anger that was way more intense than anything you actually exhibited at this moment.

"It hasn't exactly been a picnic, mate."

<you know the drill>

!" The soft, dreamy voice was unmistakable, even before Luna's pale face and long blonde hair appeared through the opening, and Neville felt his heart catch in his throat. He had known she was alive, known she was all right for over a month, sent for her with all the others, but seeing her again…it was everything he could do not to sprint to the portrait hole and sweep her up in a completely un-leaderlike embrace.

Neville: Because no one actually expects their leaders to actually act like they have friends or show emotion.

Then another face appeared, handsome and dark-skinned, with a familiar bright grin, and Seamus had no such compunctions about propriety as he caught sight of his best friend.

Ron: In other words, he wasn’t a stuck up prick.

With a cry of unashamed joy, he bolted forward, grabbing Dean Thomas in a hug that yanked him the rest of the way out of the portrait hole and tumbled both young wizards laughing to the floor.

Luna: That’s very…

Hermione: Having done my research, I can say the homoerotic undertones were actually intended this time.

Ginny: So… are all my ex-boyfriends gay in this fic?

Hermione: Apparently.

<oh sweet canon>

Michael glanced at the bruises on Terry's face, then his own face darkened with disbelief and betrayal as he whirled on Harry, his knuckles white on the handle of his wand. "You're going to leave us in this mess?"

Harry: Er, wow. I don’t remember Mike being that intense about it.

Neville: Watch out or he’ll snap your neck too.

"No!" Ron replied quickly. "What we're doing will benefit everyone in the end, it's all about trying to get rid of You-Know-Who –"

"Then let us help!" Neville snapped, increasingly angry at their inability to see what their old classmates had become. "We want to be a part of it!"

Ron: You should be glad we couldn’t see actually, if we had, we would have locked you all up.

The portrait opened again, and the argument was interrupted anew as Ginny climbed out;

Ginny: Oh God, I have to be in this thing again.

Lee gave only a quick nod as he jumped lightly to the floor, then turned, reaching into the opening and lifting out Cho Chang with both hands around her waist.

Hermione: All right, who randomly lifts girls up by the waist for no reason?

Ginny: Any man in this fic. Groping and lugging girls around is the default.

"I got the message," she said with a smile at Harry – though it no longer seemed to have quite the mind-numbing effect it once had –

Ginny: I WOULD HOPE NOT.

then hurried over to her old Housemates, hugging several of them before sitting down next to Michael. Her brows lifted in surprise and more than a little interest as her dark eyes scanned over him, but he was still glaring too furiously at Harry to notice, even when she scooted in closer to him and set one delicate hand lightly on his knee.

Luna: Poor Cho, she doesn’t know he already has someone else.

Hannah: And even she can’t escape this “delicate hands” nonsense. No girl who gets more than one line in this thing can.

George dusted off his robes and turned, twirling his wand between his fingers. "So what's the plan, Harry?"

"There isn't one." His forehead was furrowed in pain, but there was such genuine bemusement to his voice that for the first time, Neville began to think that maybe Harry had no more idea what was going on than the rest of them – not just at Hogwarts, but overall. They had all put so much stock in the idea that Dumbledore had set them up with some incredibly brilliant, detailed master scheme that the concept of Harry in this by the seat of his pants was terrifying, and he shook his head, unwilling to believe it.

Harry: So apparently Dumbledore didn’t live up to this doppelganger’s achingly high standards as a perfect chessmaster. I’m sure he’s sobbing in the other life somewhere.

Fred did not seem the least perturbed, however. "Just going to make it up as we go along, are we?" he said cheerfully. "My favorite kind."

Harry whirled on Neville, and his eyes were wide and pleading, almost childlike in the vulnerability of the pain so clearly visible in them.

Hermione: It’s just plain rude, these constant references to how childlike and fragile Harry is constrasted to the constant assertations of how strong and adult these others are. The author is so blatant in trying to get the audience to identify Harry as unworthy and weak while prompting his own agenda of hypermasculinity and military-fetishism as the dominant one that it’s hard to read.

Ron: …Yeah, what she said.

<canon>

Ron had been exchanging relieved, grateful hugs with the brothers and sister he hadn't seen in so many months, but he suddenly yanked away from the twins, spinning to face Harry with a fiery look of challenge in his eyes.

Harry: Okay, so now Ron is inexplicably intense as well. Is he going to try to snap my neck next?

"Why can't they help?" he demanded.

Harry blinked. Clearly, Ron not backing him one hundred percent was about the last thing he could cope with at that moment.

Harry: …because Ron and I have never disagreed about anything before.

Ron: I think the Neville here is just projecting, he thinks because his minions never disagree with HIM, Harry must be floored when one of his friends offers a different opinion.

"What?"

<caaaaaaaaaaanon>

Neville's heart sank. This was it? Dumbledore's great master plan was uniting Founder's objects after all – something that had been bandied around and discarded by teenagers months ago?

Hermione: Is jumping to the worst and most ridiculous conclusion all Neville does in this fic? What is this Founder’s nonsense?

Neville: Well, he just wants to think the worst of everyone, especially Harry and Dumbledore, so he comes up with all sorts of ludicrous theories he thinks they *may* have considered so he can shoot them down for believing in such rubbish…rubbish he made up.

<more canon>

Ron shuffled his feet awkwardly, his cheeks flushing. "Sorry, but…what is a diadem?"

Neville suddenly wanted to beat his head against something very hard.

Ginny: We’d be happy to help you with that.

Ron did not know what they were even looking for. A year. Only the three of them. And he did not know what they were looking for. Had Dumbledore gone completely out of his mind in his old age?

Harry: So Neville agrees with the Ministry now and thinks just because Dumbledore was old he can say he was senile?

Hermione: My goodess, he is a judgemental little brat. He knows absolutely nothing about the situation and is already insulting us and Dumbledore.

Harry: Yeah, other secrets he kept notwithstanding, Dumbledore didn’t actually know the diadem was a Horcrux, so this bit wasn’t remotely his fault. But apparently Neville thinks EVERYTHING is his fault.

Terry seemed to be thinking along much the same lines, and the hollow astonishment in his voice had nothing to do with Ron's vocabulary.

Ron: I don’t remember him sounding full of “hollow astonishment” but okay.

<caaaanon>

The answer did not come immediately, as Harry's eyes rolled again, almost as dramatically as they had the first time,

Harry: Don’t worry, big guy, I’ll never be as dramatic as you.

<canon>

Cho stood, a look of tender sympathy on her face as she saw how much pain Harry truly was in,

Ginny: tender sympathy? What, is she a saint now? I bet this is to make me look bad isn’t it well I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HARRY’S PAIN TOO OKAY. I just knew this sort of thing happens to him every five minutes, so I wasn’t upping the meloadrama like this fic is. Clearly since Neville and everyone dwells on his pain endlessly in this fic he expects Harry to do the same thing.

but Ginny's eyes snapped jealous fire

Ginny: Wut. They did not. I am not a…

Luna: …heliopath?

Ginny: Yes, whatever that is.

as she hopped off the end of the table where she had been sitting. "No, Luna will take Harry," she grabbed the other girl's sleeve and practically shoved her towards him, "won't you, Luna?"

Luna: Huh, I don’t recall her doing that.

Ginny: That’s because I didn’t. I just said it kind of fiercely, no hopping up or shoving of Luna or jealous fire eyes involved. I don’t know why he’s trying to make this moment ten times more intense than it actually was. Just trying to empthasize what a terrible person I am?

Harry: Well, it was pretty intense in the first place. It’s not like Cho was going to try to seduce me or anything.

Ginny: YOU DON’T KNOW THAT. I MEAN… CHO WOULD HAVE DISTRACTED YOU. I JUST THOUGHT LUNA WOULD BE BETTER SUITED FOR THE MISSION BECAUSE SHE IS SO MUCH SMARTER AND HAD HER OWN DIADEM.

Luna: So sad it exploded.

Harry: ….right.

Ginny: Look, I was sixteen and I’m a jealous person, okay, even at inopportune moments. It doesn’t mean I was breathing fire! It runs in the family, just look at Ron.

Ron: Oh, trying to drag me into this and shifting blame, that is so TYPICAL, Ginny.

Ginny: I learned from the best!

Ron: You-

Hermione: All right, let’s move on.

"Oooh, yes," Luna nodded happily, smiling at Ginny in what seemed to be complete ignorance of the look that had just been exchanged over her head. "I'd like to."

Luna: That’s strange, I thought I spoke the secret hypersonic girl language, yet I didn’t pick this up.

<more canon>

Harry nodded, and although every instinct told him that the other wizard was in no condition to be doing anything except lying flat on his back,

Harry: God, he is so melodramatic. I WAS FINE.

Hermione: Well, to be fair, it is probably best to lie down after experiencing severe headaches and nausea, you just always refuse to do that due to being a stubborn fool. It doesn’t mean you weren’t capable of doing otherwise, and FauxNeville is just milking the drama because he expects everyone to do that when he’s in pain too, yes.

he recognized beneath the pain and confusion a flicker of something else that he had seen in his own too many times that year.

Neville: It always goes back to being about him and how his pain is greater than everyone’s.

Hannah: How did he see it in his OWN eyes? Was he constantly looking at the mirror? Actually, that makes sense, considering his self obsession.

The look of someone who had to go on, whether they liked it or not, whether they could or not. The look of someone driven, bowed, and very nearly broken under a burden they had no way to share.

Harry: … So, I’m almost as angsty as this Neville, is that what it’s trying to say? But not quite, I’m not nearly that cool.

His mouth bent up at the corners, but the green eyes showed no sign of humor.

Harry: There’s only one person here who has no sense of humor, and it isn’t me.

"No problem," he nodded, "see you in a bit."

Neville watched them go until they had vanished completely into the shadows and twists of the staircase, and even then he continued to stand there. His whole body felt suddenly almost unbearably heavy, and his ankle continuing to throb a steady reminder to have it seen to as he rested his forehead on his arm against the edge of the cupboard. This was not how he had imagined things, this was not how he had planned things,

Hermione: It’s sad to learn you can’t always megalomaniacally control everyone in the world, isn’t it?

and he no longer even knew if he was still in charge or not.

Neville: Which, of course, is the most important thing. He’ll die if he’s not in charge.

Was it Harry now?

Harry: I’m afraid I didn’t have time for a formal election.

Was it meant to be Harry?

Harry: What, you mean did Destiny crown me as Leader? All I know is I have to kill a madman…

Could it be Harry, whether it was supposed to be or not?

Harry: Okay, if you want to lead so bad, just do it, I can assure you I don’t care. I just want to stop the war not get a statue.

Silence lingered behind Harry's departure, the entire D.A., old and new, waiting like one great, held breath, and then Seamus' voice carried over the stillness with all the tact he had ever been known for. "So, Ron, we've a fair lot of catchin' up to do…but what I guess we'd all like to know is has Potter been hurt, has he gone mental, is he goin' that way, or has he just turned into a truly fantastic arse?
"
Ron: ….

Ginny: What the fuck.

Ron: Please tell me I beat the holy hell out of him.

Harry: What did I do wrong?

Ginny: Showed emotion.

Hermione: Why is everyone talking to Ron and not acting like I’m there?

Ginny: Either because girls don’t count, or Seamus knows you would eviscerate him with magic rather than fists, which would be more painful.

Ron: Please tell me I beat the holy hell out of him.

Ron let out a roar of outrage and flung himself towards Seamus,

Ron: YES.

Ginny: Wow, you did something in character!

Ron: Seamus would know by now insulting Harry doesn’t sit well with me, so clearly I am beating up a Death Eater. FOR JUSTICE.

Neville: Beat the Oirish out of him! To borrow a phrase from Ginny, you are my new favorite character.

Hermione: I just find it delightfully ironic to see anyone in this thing accuse someone of being an arse.

but Hermione and Dean were both faster, and two rock-solid Shield Charms sprang up between the two wizards,

Hermione: Excuse me, but I wouldn’t bother in this case unless I thought Ron was going to get hurt. Which he wouldn’t, because he can handle Seamus. I mean, clearly Seamus has been replaced by a Death Eater.

Dean: And I let Seamus fight his own battles when he spouts off, myself. Especially if he’s being such a fantastically out-of-character arse.

Ginny: Dean! Where did you come from?

Dean: I apparently die in a chapter or two, so I’m in the waiting room with the others. Hey, is it true I’m gay in this?

Ginny: Everyone I date in this fic other than Harry is gay, I don’t know why.

Dean: Huh.

Hermione: At any rate, doesn’t the author think I would at least be telling Seamus to shut his big mouth? Why am I silent?

Ginny: See, I would be screaming at Seamus too, but I’m all silent and docile as well. Perhaps we are communicating in the secret girl language.

shimmering as they slammed into the invisible barrier. Neville snapped out of his contemplation,

Neville: Wow, that took him a while.

his cheeks flushing as he ran over and grabbed his Lieutenant furiously by the arm. "FINNIGAN! Are you out of your –"

"He's right!" Michael stood, his own dark eyes fixed on Ron behind the shield as he took up a position by Seamus' side, his chin thrust out defiantly.

Ginny: Wow, Micheal, you’re so EDGY, standing up “defiantly” to a man who’s unable to lay a hand on you for your insulting and condescending attitude toward a dear friend because he’s behind a barrier. How brave. Too bad for you that if I was remotely in character you’d have MY wand in your face telling you to sit and spin about now.

"We've been –"

Ginny: What, pretending to me soldiers? Primping egos? Enlighten us, Micheal, on what make you so holier-than-thou.

"Harry doesn't know what we've been doing, and we don't know what he's been doing, and no one – " Neville stared with all the authority he could muster at Ron, Michael, and Seamus in turn, " – has any right to say they've had a better or worse year than the other, or to pretend like we know what's going on yet."

Neville: Yet I’m sure that won’t stop you from judging your head off.

He took a deep breath, looking squarely at Ron. "Look, mate, I don't mean to be rude here, or to minimize what you three have been doing,

Hermione: Oh you mean, actually fighting Voldemort? Actually acting out a REAL plan to defeat him instead of manipulating younger students and destroying their hope in survival while going on about how great it will be to die? Yes, I don’t think that should be minimized.
Neville: I notice other me’s not making even a pretense of talking like a real person anymore.

but we're not the D.A. you remember. We're soldiers now, real soldiers,

Hermione: At this point, he’s like a four year old screaming at the top of his lungs that he is TOO a soldier as he wields a toy gun and a stick.

and we're ready to fight if it would help Harry. Ready to fight, and ready to die, and there's a lot more of us than what you see here-

And blablaba

You know what

I am bored with this.

Which is partly why this chapter has taken several months. Other than being busy. And lazy.

But this is really boring. I thought it would be interesting with Harry and the rest finally coming in, but so much boring. I am tired of pointing how pretentious Neville is, the obvious bashing of the canon characters and machismo driven ego stroking that pervades every corner of this fic. I am tired of pointing out how this fic is TOTALLY SUCKING THE LIFE OUT OF CANON with its cardboard lifeless characters.
You’ve heard it all. So let’s skip the end of this chapter and get to the gorey torture porn. At least then I’ll have something to sink my teeth into.

Basically they preen a little more about how they have all these plans that don’t have a chance in hell of working, excuse me, “strategies”, and therefore are so much better than Harry, canon happens, Voldemort makes his “VOLDEMORT OUT BITCHES” speech etc. I won’t make you sit though it.

But I will include more nauseating attempts at romance

"If we wound up getting split by House for any reason, keep an eye on Hannah for me." Ernie nodded in solemn understanding, and they hugged quickly before splitting up again to finish their preparations, but at the last minute, Neville stopped and turned back. "Oh, and Ernie…."

"Yes?"

"Make sure she has something to throw." He chuckled softly, reaching into his pocket and fingering the single yellow hair-ribbon he had never confessed to having kept. "That girl doesn't miss."

HEY GUYS REMEMBER THE TIME HANNAH TRIED TO KILL NEVILLE WASN’T THAT ROMANTIC.

"Honestly, sir?" Colin laughed. "I did it to myself. Got something in my eye and forgot I can't feel what I'm doing. Damned near blinded myself, but I'm fine now." He hesitated, blushing a little. "Don't tell Demelza, though. I haven't told her how it happened, and I'm just letting her assume it was brave."

"Ah, the little lies of love," Terry pointed ahead to where the entry way stretched at the end of the last staircase in front of them,

I HATE HOW ALL THESE CHARACTERS ARE ALWAYS LYING TO EACH OTHER AND CALLING IT LOVE AND OBSESSED WITH BEING MACHO AT ALL COSTS I HATE IT.

Colin's shoulders tensed, he began to jump to his feet, but Neville grabbed a handful of the back of his pajamas and yanked him firmly back down again. "Not now," he hissed, then glanced along the length of the Gryffindor table at the shocked faces of the fourth, fifth, and sixth-years staring back at him. "First of all," he dropped his voice to a low whisper as one of the Ravenclaw girls asked about their belongings, "there are still Slytherins here. We don't know if she's trying to plant false information about our numbers…it's what I'd do. Second, if she's serious, I'll argue it for you, I swear. I know you can fight. I believe in you, and damned if we aren't going to need every wand we can get."

Haha Neville’s going to try to challenge McGonagall’s authority so he can get his underaged “soldiers” killed. Oh, if only this were the real MG, she’s kick his ass up the wall.

He wasn't the only one to have noticed. The cheers were subsiding quickly, replaced by whispers of astonishment from those who hadn't seen Harry in person yet, and Neville cast a nervous glance towards Colin as Harry passed directly behind him, the sleeve of his robe actually brushing the golden hair. To his relief, Colin was not suddenly struck down by mindless hero-worship, and his angelic face showed no more delight and excitement at seeing the Chosen One than anyone else around him

Oh the faith Neville has in his friends.

Anyway, we’re moving on out. I will give you the next chapter with character commentary in a more timely fashion, hopefully, and lets hope the mindless torture porn will make it more entertaining for me to spork.

Ginny: Thank God we didn’t have to finish that.

Neville: Yeah, but the worst is yet to come.

*Everyone groans*

Chapter 20 at last (pt 1)

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 05:54:22 GMT

Hi guys, sorry for the massive delay. This chapter, despite Harry finally coming into the fold to be insulted for not being as manly as Neville, was really boring. So boring I didn't spork the last small chunk but that's probably for the best. It's MurderGoreFest '08 next, which I'll hopefully find a bit more entertaining to spork.

Ron: ….

Hermione: …

Harry: Welcome to our happy Spork Room, guys!

Hermione: I can’t believe I couldn’t make this illegal.

Ron: I can’t believe any of this is happening.

Hannah: Oh, but it’s not just Ron and Hermione who will be popping in for the next chapters! EVERYONE WHO DIES in this fic will get a comment on their demise.

Luna: We may even try to contact Snape from beyond the grave!

Neville: W-why would we do that? Let’s please not do that.

Ginny: We’ll get his portrait in here. You can burn it or something if he upsets you.

Harry: No, he can’t! I worked really hard to get that blasted thing put upand it was really annoying so I won’t have that-

Ginny: MOVING ON.

<The DA doubles up on their workouts! THEY ARE HARDENED SOLDIERS NOW. Plus AGGRESSIVE MUSIC which gets cut off by static oh noes>

Jack drew his wand at the tall wooden cabinet, but before he could even properly threaten it,

Hermione: So they’ll even solve their problems with inanimate objects by threatening violence. How very sensible.

a familiar voice broke in, breathless with excitement. "- got it, Fred! We've broken through, I'm sure of it!"

"Code names, code names, you idiot! How long can you hold the signal, River?"

<F, G, and Lee break the news about the Trio escaping on a Dragon>

"FRED, GEORGE…RUN! They're - " The rest of Lee's shout was lost in three loud, rapid cracks, then there was the muffled sound of angry voices, a sharp bang, and static filled the air once more.

Hannah: Thank goodness reality is going to have to intervene, if the author had his way the three of them would have come back maimed or dead from that experience.

Neville tapped the wireless with his wand, turning it off it as the music resumed,

Everyone: …what?

and there were a few seconds stunned silence before the room erupted. Shouts and exclamations tumbled over one another, and he was forced to stand on his chair, waving his hands as he yelled, "QUIET!"

The outburst subsided, and he pointed to his Lieutenants. "Seamus, Terry, Ernie, this is huge. We need to talk about it now. Come with me."

Ginny: TIME FOR THE MAN SQUAD TO MEET!

The four young wizards hurried to the farthest corner of the room, and Neville glanced around the shining, excited faces – Seamus' beaming even through the still-impressive remains of the terrible bruising – with a broad smile of his own before he began. "So, I think we all know what he was doing in there, even if I can't for the life of me figure out how he could have possibly managed it."

Ginny: Not the least concern expressed over any danger Fred, George and Lee may be in, I see. Par for the course, they’re too manly to think of others.

The conversation that happens next is very long and very boring:

Neville: Harry’s going to come here!

Seamus: Is not!

Neville: Is too

Seamus: Is not!
Neville: Is too because I read the book! ALSO I CAN SENSE THE FUTURE.

"Almost all magical individuals have a certain degree of precognition," Terry said knowingly. "

Seamus: Avalanche Metaphor! Also IS NOT. Also also I am Irish.

Neville: Whatever, Seamus.

Seamus: Listen, Harry’s following orders from Dumbledore and Dumbledore sucks, so he’s not coming, so there.

Ernie: I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU. AT THE SAME TIME. AREN'T I THE BEST SUCK UP?

Terry: We need to tell the whole school about this. I propose…

"I'll go down at dinner and make an announcement in the Great Hall."

"That's insane!" Neville blurted.

Neville: And has anyone in this fic demonstrated any measure of sanity so far?

"If you're tryin' to prove somethin'," Seamus said bemusedly, "there's no need, mate. I ain't called you a Library Lily in weeks, and I never meant it but affectionately in the first place."

Luna: Should I I get a heliopath to attack you, you bullheaded leprechaun monster?

Ginny: I rather like Luna’s Ravenclaw pride.

"Oh, I have absolutely no heroic impulses," Terry admitted freely. "Personally, I'd be very happy if I had graduated a year earlier so that I could sit back and write a book about this when it was all over, but there's no one else for it.

Ginny: Honestly, every time he talks it just comes out “blablabla I’m attempting to sound like a scholar blablabla I’m not a hero I’m a bookworm blablabla but let me do this bullheaded idiotic machismo driven thing for some contrived reason because really mindless attempts at looking macho are what drives everyone in this fic.

It has to be one of the four of us, or it won't carry the authority. The Commander there just has too much of a price on his head. Wouldn't get a word out before he'd be fighting for his life. Seamus, I actually really like you, but you're too well known for your mouth."

Neville: or your IRISHNESS. Same old song, let’s go on about what a plucky little leprechaun Seamus is.

The swollen face flushed through the bruises. "I'm no liar!"

"I never said that," Terry amended quickly. "You just have a reputation for shooting off a bit, and it's so incredible as it is, people might think you were just trying to provoke the Carrows. Look me in the eye and tell me you'd never even consider exaggerating something to make them angry."

Ron: In other words… “Mate, you’re a liar.”

There was a long pause, then the sandy head nodded reluctantly, and he shrugged. "Got me there, you do. But why not Ernie? Hufflepuff's got a reputation too, and it's for being honest as the day is long."

"He's got a wife and a kid,

Ron: Wait…WHAT?

Ginny: Don’t even ask.

Hermione: *sniffs disapprovingly*

and Terry's talking about something that could very easily be a suicide mission," Neville said, then turned towards the Ravenclaw.

Ron: From what Ginny tells me, everything they bloody do is a suicide mission. It must get tiring.

"For someone with no heroic impulses, that's a really brave thing you've volunteered to do."

"Stupid, illogical heroics seem to be the most logical thing to do rather frequently lately," he chuckled. "Really shows you how much You-Know-Who has messed up this world."

Hermione: Or rather, how much the author has.

"Still," Neville said slowly, "I don't want you to just throw yourself on their mercy, Terry, because you're the closest thing to a walking library we have,

Ron: So basically, they’ve found a way to have a Hermione without Hermione actually being there.

Ginny: Right, only ten times better than Hermione, because he and Micheal can do these bizarre things like teleport people with their Patronuses and make them forget utensils.

Neville: And “Neville” is Harry without Harry actually being there, only a hundred times better, because as everyone constantly reminds him, he’s so much cooler than Harry.

Ron: …Is anyone me?

Harry: Seamus, I guess. He’s you as a plucky Irishman.

Ron: Brilliant.

and their mercy isn't their strongest feature. We're taking precautions. I want you to take Padma with you."

"Why Padma?" Seamus asked curiously, "He and Mike are…."

"Expected and come with a lot of baggage.

Ron: So I take it Mike and Terry are shagging like rabbits in this bilge?

Luna: Yes, but no one will admit it. It’s very sad, the repression.

No offense, but we know that even though you two work amazingly together when things are going right, you're also really prone to coming unglued if something goes wrong…

Luna: Just go ahead and tack “in bed” to that, honestly.

and there's a lot of potential for that in what you're wanting to do." Neville smiled apologetically at Terry. "You're so used to leading with your heads, you're not prepared when your hearts get involved in things."

Luna: And your hearts are eternally connected and filled with lust!

"Fair enough," Terry nodded. "But still, why Padma?"

Luna: Because there’s no chance Terry would be interested in her.

"She's a tiny little thing," Neville explained,

Ginny: What else is new? Every single girl in this excuse for a story is a “tiny little thing”.

"She'll fit completely under Susan's cloak, plus she's got a good Disillusionment Charm on top of It, and she's really level-headed, so she's not going to act unless she needs to. She'll be your backup, and she'll have your wand."

Terry gasped, horrified. "I'm supposed to go wandless?"

Hernione: Yes, because we need to make this as pointlessly dramatic as possible.

The other two looked equally aghast. "Do you want it to be suicide?" Seamus blurted.

"What's the first thing you do to an enemy, guys?" Neville sighed. "I have a lot of faith in Terry's Protego, but not against three Death Eaters trying simultaneously to disarm him, plus half of Slytherin, most likely. We can duplicate the wand, and it won't be any good for magic, but it'll look right and give him something to hold.

Luna: Terry knows all about holding wands.

<inventory blablabla>

he fought to keep his hand from shaking – he didn't even know if it was fear or excitement or adrenaline or something else or all of it together – as he thrust it into the center of the little group. The other men clasped theirs atop his, and his eyes scanned over cobalt, azure, and hazel as he nodded.

Ron: How the hell are someone’s eyes cobalt and azure?

Hermione: Ugh, purple prose.

"Harry's got the Sword. We have an army. Let's make this happen."

Hermione: Do they seriously think Harry’s plan is to go roaring off at the head of some machine gun toting brigade and stab Voldemort with a sword?

Hannah: Yes, because it’s what the author would have liked to happen.

OOO

"Oh, Merlin, I hate pain," Terry moaned,

Luna: Blatant lies. He’s in this story after all, they all love some roughness here.

leaning heavily against Padma's shoulder, one arm clenched tightly at his side and his jaw darkly swollen as the much smaller witch helped him through the door.

"TERRY!" Michael was at his “friend”’s side in an instant, frowning deeply.

Harry: Did you put those quotes, Luna?

Luna: I felt they were needed.

Ginny: I’m impressed you’re even paying so much attention, Harry.

(So, Padma was apparently just totally floored when the Carrows charmed some pots and pans to hit Terry, as dastardly villains do, instead of going for Crucio or something. Anyway, they got away)

"But there's nothing here we can't fix, and you did it, Terry. That was incredible of you." Michael glanced up from where he was kneeling beside the cushion, looking gratefully at Padma. "Thanks for getting him out of there. I've been – "

"A nervous wreck is the nicest way to put it," Jack laughed, nodding his head towards Terry. "You should know, that bloke's been pacing a rut in the floor in here.

Luna: Or looking to rut on the floor, rather. Poor boy’s so repressed. *sighs*

Hermione: Oooh, nice wordplay!

*Everyone stares at her*

Hermione: I mean…that was just completely vulgar. For shame. Yes.

If you'd been another five minutes, we were going to have to tie him to something

Luna: And he prefers to have Terry do that.

to keep him going after you, and none of us were looking forward to trying to find a spell to do it that he couldn't bounce right back at us."

Luna: Wow, he must practice that with Terry a LOT.

(Snape turned GREEN when he realized the DA knew about Harry’s Great Escape because it’s not like he’s on Harry’s side or anything and Colin Creevey is TOUGH)

Andrew and Jack exchanged a look of relief, then Andrew grinned, shaking his head. "I'd never have thought Creevey could turn into such a tough little son of a Bludger, did you?"

"Harry! Harry! Can I have your picture, Harry! Can I have a bit of your pocket lint to build a shrine by my bed, Harry? Oh, please, Harry, look at me so I can talk about it for the next week and a half!" Jack's voice was high and mocking in a rather viciously accurate imitation of his young friend, but there was no malice to it, and several people laughed.

Harry: If there’s no malice in it, why does he sound exactly like Malfoy imitating Colin in second year?

Hermione: Lovely way to treat your friends, mocking them behind their back and laughing at them.

"Yeah, well, let's not count on anything until Harry actually shows up again, then we'll find out if this whole grown-up bit is really just a phase," Anthony smirked.

Hannah: Also doubting them constantly behind their backs!

"Neville just doesn't seem to have the same awe-inspiring quality to him."

Ginny: Then why does everyone bow and scrape before him more than they ever did Harry?

"Downside of everyone watching you trip over your own feet for the first couple years, Fearless Leader," Seamus slung an arm affectionately over Neville's shoulders with a lopsided grin.

Neville: Haha, yes, I’m such a loser, play that tune again.

"We'll love you,

Neville: Oh, will we love you!

we'll follow you,

Neville: Like lemmings!

but I'm afraid you'll never quite get us to worship you."

Neville: Could have fooled me!

"I like it better that way," Neville laughed, "I honestly don't know how Harry puts up with it,

Harry: Well, Colin and Dennis are the only ones who ever worshipped me, others will alternately fawn over me or turn on me at the drop of a hat. You happen to have a cadre of blind followers who treat you like a God, and I don’t know how you put up with THAT- oh wait, you bask in it.

and I'm the first one to admit that I'm not worshiping material. I screw up way too often, even now."

Ginny: Hurray for false modesty!

"For example, it is generally inadvisable for a leader to confess his own tendency for error immediately prior to instigating combat," Ernie teased. "This is where you are supposed to make bold and inspiring speeches telling us that Terry's brave sacrifice shall not be the last, and that we have yet only to wait for our turn at glory,

Neville: Yeah, but didn’t he already do that? Make it sound like death, torture and battle are wonderful and glorious instead of stupid, painful and senseless?

making it sound as though getting beaten by serving dishes is something we should all aspire towards."

Ginny: No, being WHIPPED is what they should all aspire towards. Hasn’t Ernie been reading?

Neville shrugged, spreading his hands self-depricatingly.

Hermione: Hello there, unnecessary and awkward adverb.

"I don't do speeches.

Ginny: This fic says otherwise.

How about I just say that Terry did a really good job, that I'm glad to see they've already gotten him all his teeth back and it looks like they're making headway on the broken bones, that I'm really proud of all of you, and I think whenever this thing goes down, you're all going to kick a lot of Death Eater butt?"

Neville: Excellent, he’s talking like an American twelve-year-old again.

Wayne grinned. "That'll do for me."

<snip>

"Your little friend's already here," Hannah pointed to the painting and smiled. "Careful, Neville. I think she likes you. I might have to get jealous."

Hannah: I like how she only ever speaks to remind us she’s still Neville’s girlfriend.

Neville chuckled, leaning over to kiss her lightly on the cheek. "I prefer my women in three dimensions and older than thirteen, thanks."

Hannah: The way you were calling her “pretty” like a complete creep says otherwise.

"Then I won't be worried."

(She should be, because Neville continues to call Ariana “love” and act like a creep, fortunately or unfortunately though, it’s time for canon to invade at last)

Neville's eyes widened, and he spun back to the painting, fighting to keep his voice quiet and soothing so as not to startle her. "Ariana, is there a boy there? About so tall –" he indicated with his hand at eye level, "

Harry: Oh right, because Neville is manly and tall now while I’m still a skinny runt.

—with black hair and glasses and a scar on his head that looks kind of like a lightning bolt?"

The girl nodded a third time (snip Neville goes Commander)

He took a deep breath, and he was astonished to realize that he felt no fear, only a deep thrill at the realization that what they had been waiting for all year was finally upon them. "It's tonight, people. Harry's back. We're going to set things right."

Harry: *miserably* If only.
OOO

(Here it is guys! Time for the bizarre juxtaposistion of canon lines in this fic. Believe me, it is really bizarre. Neville SPRINTS to Harry and twists his ankle while doing so, in either and effort to make it more dramatic or a vain attempt to remember Neville’s supposed to be a bit clumsy)

They were there.

Harry, Ron, and Hermione were there, and they were alive, and they were looking up at him as he threw the door all the way open and nearly flung himself into the little sitting room, coming within inches of falling as he scrambled over the mantelpiece. He wanted to laugh, to cry, to yell out in triumph, and the sound that came out of him was really a mixture of all three as he dropped to the floor, grabbing Harry in an enormous hug. "I knew you'd come! I knew it, Harry!"

Neville: It’s really weird to hear these words come out of this guy’s mouth..

Hannah: Seriously. When have we ever seen your doppelganger be as honestly affectionate and enthusiastic as you are here? It’s like he’s morphed into a different person. Which, of course, he has.

The other young wizard pulled back, adjusting his skewed glasses as he sputtered in shock, "Neville – what the – how – ?"

Harry: “Who is this leviathan you have been replaced with?”

He barely heard the half-formed questions. Neville was hugging Ron now, then Hermione, lifting the witch off her feet entirely, and he spun her in a full circle before setting her down again,

Hermione: Ugh, don’t touch me.

taking a step back to just drink in the sight of his friends that he had for so long worried about, hoped for, and too often feared dead.

Harry: Okay, so when did any of that happen? He never showed any honest signs of missing us throughout the damn fic.

"I knew you'd come!" he repeated, grinning stupidly at them. "Kept telling Seamus it was a matter of time!"

Surprisingly, Harry didn't seem to share his excitement,

Harry: Well, I’m probably just disgruntled to have finally been dragged into this fic.

but he supposed that it was fair enough. The Chosen One, the Boy Who Lived had certainly had much more on his plate the past year than worrying about his old roommate,

Harry: Yes, I never thought about Neville at all.

Neville: …you didn’t?

\Harry: That was sarcasm, mate. I thought about you many times.

Neville: Oh, okay. I mean, I didn’t think about you all the time, but you know, sometimes I’d be expecting you and Ron in the dorm and wondering about you, and then-

Ron: We love you too, Neville.

while every day for Neville had been focused on what he could do to help the man standing before him.

Neville: Except not at all, you’ve been more focused on showing off.

Harry was looking at him very oddly, and he frowned. "Neville, what's happened to you?"

Harry: I’m probably wondering if I’m in the wrong universe at this point.

He paused a moment, wondering how to answer that, then realized that all three of them were merely staring at the curse slashes on his cheeks that had still refused to even begin healing, and at the faded remains of the black eye Crabbe had given him

Neville: MERELY the curse marks, Clearly he’s surprise that Harry hasn’t noticed how the DEEP WOUNDS IN HIS SOUL.OR HIS BULGING MUSCLES.

Harry: Yeah, funny how I don’t recall thinking “Wow, Neville is a bulging hunk of a man now” when I first saw him.

Ron: Yeah, I think one of us would have asked when Neville has transformed into a giant if it had, well, actually happened,

. Neville gestured at his face, "What? This?" Their looks and Hermione's tiny nod were answer enough, and he dismissed it casually. "This is nothing. Seamus is worse. You'll see."

Neville: See, I actually said that, but coming from him is sounds condescending. And how out of character is it for him NOT to launch into the tale of how he got whipped that one time?

He nodded his head towards the portrait. "Shall we be going?"

<canon! Sweet canon!>

He nodded, "I know, that's why they'll be Apparating directly into the bar. Just send them down the passage when they get here, will you? Thanks a lot."

There was no time to worry about the old wizard's annoyed mutterings. If Harry was moving this quickly, he wasn't going to slow things up. He was a leader himself now, and he understood the necessity for haste.

Harry: YES I AM A LEADER. Of two people. Who mostly boss me around. Stop using this as an opportunity to brag, Commander.

Neville climbed back up onto the mantle and twisted at the waist, grabbing Hermione's hand and pulling her up after him, then Ron scrambled through, and Neville himself.

Hermione: My, that sentence was poorly constructed.

He stopped, looking back after Harry, and saw that he had lingered a moment to talk to Aberforth. "I don't know how to thank you," he said, "You've saved our lives twice."

"Look after 'em, then," Aberforth grumbled, "I might not be able to save them a third time."

Then Harry had followed them though, and Neville lead the way back down the passage as briskly as he dared without putting any more strain on his still-throbbing ankle before someone could take a look at it properly.

Neville: Wait, is this supposed to explain the limp I had at this moment in real life? Wow, Thanfiction sure threw that in awkwardly at the last minute.

Ron was looking around in fascination, taking in the smooth earthen walls that surrounded them. "How long's this been here?" he asked. "It isn't on the Marauder's Map, is it, Harry? I thought there were only seven passages in and out of school?"

"They sealed off all those before the start of the year," Neville informed them, frowning slightly. Hadn't Luna told them anything?

Luna: Hmmm? I was supposed to do something?

Neville: Luna, I’m sorry, looks like you’re a terrible soldier.

Luna: Well, they were shut up with goblin the whole time, probably saving him from Fudge’s evil pie-plans. And I wasn’t actually expecting them to return to Hogwarts. But I think I would have informed them in Snape has been possessed by a Bloodthirsty Boorknook, Neville had turned into a terrible hulk and the entire school had become a torture outpost. Maybe I just wanted to protect their sanity…

"There's no chance of getting through any of them now, not with curses over the entrances and Death Eaters and Dementors waiting at the exits."

He turned and began walking backwards so that he could look at them as he spoke, smiling confidently now so that they wouldn't mistake his moment's concern for fear.

Hermione: Because it would be so terrible to show emotion in front of your friends.

"Never mind that stuff…Is it true? Did you break into Gringotts? Did you escape on a dragon? It's everywhere, everyone's talking about it, Terry Boot got beaten up by Carrow for yelling about it in the Great Hall at dinner!"

Neville: Notice how I say it like Terry was in the Great Hall and decided to tell everyone not “We sent Terry from our place of safety specifically to get beaten up or die..”

Even in the dimly flickering light, he could see Harry blush. "Yeah, it's true."

Neville laughed, aware that the sound was a little manic, but not caring

Harry: I certainly don’t remember Neville being a cackling madman.

. Oh, but if they only knew how much everyone had been hoping for and dreading this…. "What did you do with the dragon?"

Ron: They were hoping for a dragon?

(canon!)

Of course. Whatever Harry had been doing was not the issue, he needed information about the next step, and Neville changed gears quickly, the ebullience snapping out of his voice

Ginny: Ebulliwhatsis?

Hermione: He should really stop trying to sound clever.

as he dropped to a far more business-like tone.

Harry: Actually, his tone was more put out and sad. But of course, this Neville is an ALL BUSINESS SOLDIER.

"It's been…" he hesitated, wondering suddenly how exactly to break it to them, then finally deciding just to go for it. "

Harry: Yeah, I guess it would be difficult to break it to us that Hogwarts has turned into an over-the-top torture porn spread that’s like a parody of real war and every character has transformed into a macho idiot…

Ginny: …or dainty, subservient arm candy if we’re talking about the girls…

Neville: …and we’re all obsessed with our pretend army and thumbing our noses at the cardboard cutout maniac Snape has turned into.

Well, it's not really like Hogwarts anymore. Do you know about the Carrows?"

"Those two Death Eaters who teach here?"

"They do more than teach." He almost chuckled, but held it back.

Neville: Because it’s hilarious how idiotic this whole thing is when you contrast it with stuff I actually said? I didn’t remotely feel like laughing when I explained WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in real life.

"They're in charge of all discipline. They like punishment, the Carrows."

"Like Umbridge?" Ron queried.

"Nah, they make her look tame…." He continued to explain as they followed the passage towards the school, but to his own surprise, Neville found himself increasingly skating over the worst of it, never quite lying, but giving no details and glossing over exactly how bad things had been with a light, nonchalant tone.

Neville: Why on earth would he do that? He never missed an opportunity to brag before. Stop this desperate dance of trying to match this story up with reality.

It wasn't that he was trying to make it seem as though they hadn't been fighting or trying to hide his comrades' heroism, but he couldn't keep himself from…well, protecting the three of them.

Harry: Because it’s not like people have been trying to murder me since the day I was born or I’m destined to fight the madman behind all this or anything. Clearly I am not ready for people being MEAN in the REAL WORLD!

Hermione: And it’s not like Ron and I haven’t been nearly killed on a monthly basis. No, we’re just amateurs.

Harry seemed so much smaller than he remembered, so much younger –

Harry: And I don’t have bulging cartoon muscles, therefore I’m terrible.

Ginny: It’s just a sign of how you’re a CHILD, Harry! Don’t you know physical appearance represents outer strength!

Harry: You’re right! How dare I be short and skinny in the face of the mightiness that is Neville!

though they were the same age to the day – but he forced himself to dismiss that. After all, Ginny had said he was about two inches taller now that he stood up straight,

Ron: Blimey, yes, you’re the manliest man that ever manned, we get it.

Harry had always been a bit on the skinny side,

Harry: and therefore I am clearly not a REAL HERO.

and his memory had probably played tricks on him in the nearly a year apart, creating an idealized hero where there was just another youth.

Neville: It’s like this fic has forgotten I actually KNOW Harry. I’m not going to forget he’s just a kid my age, I GREW UP WITH HIM.

But it wasn't so easy to dismiss the look in the green eyes behind the familiar round glasses. It was the same look he had seen in Colin's those first few days at the Burrow; after the blood-spattered horror of the basement, but before he had fully understood how deeply his brother had retreated. Innocence terribly and recently cracked, but not quite shattered yet.

Harry: Okay, clearly I need to witness the rape and slaughter of millions before I’m on Neville’s level of maturity. Never mind that I’ve seen several people murdered in front of me, been nearly killed more times than I can count, been tortured, abused, kidnapped, nearly had my soulsucked out, possessed , had my mind and sanity violated and been forced to listen to REALLY BORING VILLIANOUS MONOLOGUES, I still don’t know that the world is a mean, mean place.

Ginny: But Harry! You were never WHIPPED in the middle of the Great Hall

Harry: If my innocence was recently cracked, when was that? Somewhere around Christmas of that year? I’D LIKE TO KNOW.
Hermione: I just want to know how Neville can gauge exactly how shattered someone’s innocence is by looking in their eyes.

Somehow, he had not expected Harry to have any innocence left.

Harry: Okay, what’s this “innocence” anyway? The ability to empathize with other people? To not want to kill everyone I meet? Because I’m pretty sure I’d try to retain those things no matter what happened, so I guess I’ll always be innocent.

The rest of them didn't. They had changed too much, seen too much. Yet Harry, Ron, and Hermione barely seemed altered at all.

Hermione: Yes, we retained our basic personalities and optimism! We didn’t allow adversity to transform us in psychotic, unrecognizable, military-obsessed bores! Fancy that!

Ron: Clearly we just didn’t suffer enough. How dare we.

They looked tired, certainly, they were a little thinner now that he looked at them, and their skin bore the pink patches of newly-healed injuries here and there, but overall, they looked...like Harry, Ron, and Hermione.

Ron: Yes, sorry we didn’t overdose on Skelo-gro and turn into battle hardened hulks. How many times can we say it?

No new scars that he could see.

Ginny: You can’t e a real man until you get whip scars like Neville has.

Harry: I’m pretty sure I got a scar on my chest from the Horcrux and another from the snake. Should I have shown them to him to make it feel better?

Ron: I had fingernails that never grew back…

Hermione: I was tortured, but I’d probably have to hack up my face to make this Neville happy.

No lines at their eyes. No gray in their hair. No bitterness in their gazes.

Harry: Clearly we are not adults until we hate the world and everyone in it.

Ron: I dunno about you lot, but I was kind of bitter at this point. I just tried not to dwell on it to much and look forward to a good future once we defeated Voldemort.

Ginny: Well, that’s where you went wrong, Ron, you were supposed to be convinced you were going to die for sure and look forward to the sweet release there, and also constantly think about how terrible everyone is.

Hermione: For the record, I’ve had gray in my hair since the second I met Harry and Ron.

They were nearing the school now, and Neville shook his head slightly, cutting off the worry that had begun to build. If the three of them had survived an entire year with every Dark Wizard in Britain hunting them, if they had escaped certain death at least four times that he knew of, broken into and out of the Ministry of Magic and Gringotts itself, then they – and certainly Harry – were more than capable of having and leading a battle plan.

Harry: Wow, how incredibly generous of you. Let’s see how well you stick to it once you realize we’re not overdramatic ponces.

Ron was asking now if they were, in fact, heading back to Hogwarts, and Neville could not help throwing him a rather exasperated glance.

Ron: What did I do?

Ginny: You dared speak in his presence, Ron.

Ron: Apparently I was supposed to psychically know where we were going.

When Fanon Becomes Semi-Canon

Thu, 03 Mar 2011 00:43:17 GMT

Or, Let's Hope the Harmoanians Don't Find Out About This and Get Entitled.

So. There's this indie RPG series called Aveyond. What's it about? I'll let a regular at the official forums summarize. One of the staples of the series is pairing up party members (or not), which leads to multiple endings. Because all games are set in the same world, some endings and pairings end up being confirmed canon, but players can still have their non-canon endings, so everyone's happy, right?

Wellllll... not so much in the second game, Aveyond 1 ~~yay for confusing numbering!~~. The fan-preferred couple there is Rhen and former-master-recovering-elitist-asshole Lars. AV1 has three possible endings (four, if you count main character Rhen turning evil): Rhen becomes a hermit and never marries; Rhen returns to her childhood home and marries her childhood sweetheart; Rhen becomes queen of Thais and marries party member Dameon (confirmed canon). Notice anything missing?

Lars/Rhen vs. Dameon/Rhen is THE big shipwar in the fandom*. How big? The game was released over three years ago, and the Lars or Dameon? thread is still active today. It's very laid-back considering what we're used to, but still gets into character bashing and pairing bashing on both sides. They even make an HP shipping comparison, Ron/Hermione versus... Draco/Hermione. Never said it was a good comparison, since my version of the books doesn't have Draco and Hermione working together for the majority of it and doesn't have Ron be a mole planted by Voldemort to sway Hermione to the dark side.

Game creator Amanda is well aware of the fandom (she should be, as it's pretty much all centered on her forums), and in a mostly-technical revision of the game, decided to add a fourth ending, where Rhen becomes a teacher at her old school along with Lars. Lars/Rhen shippers rejoice! ...or not, as the ending also states that Rhen doesn't marry Lars... or does she?

Moral of the story if you're an entitled shipper: Be conspicuous enough, and canon will actually change to accomodate your fanon. We should be grateful that this fandom is so obscure.

* The newest game, released at the end of 2010, might end up taking the crown from Lars-vs-Dameon. Aveyond 3 is a game released in four parts, and the fan-favorite couple (and default in chapter 3) is main character Mel and second-most prominent character Edward. Come the end of the fourth game, and it's confirmed via Word of God that Mel marries a descendant of Lars from AV1 (another bone thrown to the shippers? who knows) while Edward marries supporting character butterfly-healer-girl Stella. There's a thread for Edward shipping preferences, and while some fans are bemoaning Ed/Mel's sinking while others are celebrating it, it's mostly calm. And the fandom actually remembers that the two girls are best friends and support Edward hooking up with the other one!

And just for fun, a forum member realizes that Edward Cullen of Twilight is a mash-up/lovechild of several Aveyond characters and everyone makes a rush for the brain bleach if you don't get how Stella fits in, remember that Twilight vampires are butterflies.

Posted Here Because The Batshit Has A Shippy Slant

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:19:18 GMT

Not Snape related! Not even the same fandom! Yay! If this is inappropriate I will apologise and remove, but...

Dear Specific Fanfic Author,

You are the friend of an online friend, and have always been friendly to me, and I will remember this. I am not going to bash the author I am not going to bash the author I am not OH FUCK IT YES I AM.

You. YOU. Oh so very much you. Your writing is crap, you put things in dialogue that sound clunky and clumsy because they belong in thoughts. Every single character, no matter their level of education or way of speaking in canon, speaks in exactly the same clumsy, clunky, overly-expositionish way.

You write a character who is canonically PANSEXUAL, very sexually adventurous and insanely sexually experienced (to the point where it's a bit of a canonical running joke - Him: "Hello..." Main Character: "STOP it!" Object of Attention: "I'm not complaining!") as being startled when his male lover grabs their erections and manually stimulates them both together during lovemaking, because supposedly nobody has ever done that for him before. Considering that according to where you've placed this fic in the canon timeline, this canonically pansexual promiscuous character has been alive for OVER A CENTURY AND A HALF at this point? If he has never done that before I will eat my DVD collection.

Your ongoing slash epic fic started with these four words: "The bratty (name of female canon love interest)" - and I don't like the character at all either and have been guilty of bashing her myself in the past, but that still doesn't help your case with me.

All of this? I could overlook as simply being thoughtless, or lacking a beta, or ESL, or somesuch. But this? Induces capslock of rage.

In this fic, Canon Protagonist D and Canon Important Secondary Character With His Own Spinoff J are having a deep and meaningful soul-bonded relationship. Cool, it's my favourite pairing, and it's awfully rare, so I can ignore any relatively minor writing issues. Canonical Villian M (who is also canonically obsessed with D) is a villian who pops up every now and then to cause J and D trouble and win D for himself? Cool, he's the sort of bloke who'd do that. M has taken D and J prisoner and is slowly brainwashing D to be his willing sex slave, including a forced soul bond, with the help of Previous Friend Of D's T, (who is actually a mole trying to save D and J?) Yes, he'd do that too, and you're not the first writer to tackle the idea, and just like the other writers, you make it clear that the dubcon is hot because it's wrong. T is also an interesting inclusion and his views on it might be interesting.

But, author, when you write that M also brainfucks J six ways from Sunday (with the brainwashed D's permission) to the point where J and D don't remember each other at all (let alone remember what they once meant to each other) and can't act like themselves, and J rapes D while in this state? IT'S KIND OF NOT J'S FAULT. IT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF M'S FAULT. AND BY 'KIND OF' I MEAN COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY. J is not suddenly the evil bastard rapist villian trying to destroy D and M's pure soulbonded lurve that goes on for another gazillion chapters and has always been so. Telling your readers that we are and have always been at war with Eurasia is pointless because we know we started by watching Eurasia and Airstrip One getting it on, thanks. And even though the mindcontrolled D and insane M have a good excuse to blame J and think he's trying to destroy said true lurve, T does not. This is where it goes beyond "The characters do this because D is messed up and M is a bastard who can't take responsibility for the results of his own bastardry and it makes sense" and straight into "The characters do this because the author needs a new Designated Villian and can't just finish or abandon the fic the way it started (J/D) and start a new fic, they have to shovel in their new wank fantasy no matter how much it contradicts what they previously wrote".

Now, for your fic-reviewing habits.

So, this female love interest character R we both don't like much? She's written in one uber-long fanfic you and I are both reading, reviewing and loving as having previously suffered from a psychotic break where she exhibited disturbing levels of violence, due to trauma that can reasonably be extrapolated from a certain canon event. This is written by this author as a decent exploration of the issues of mental health, and R has recovered, rebuilt her life and become a loving wife and mother. Good for her! I don't like the canon character, but I can really feel for and admire this fic's version. Eight years later she breaks again due to circumstances out of her or anyone else's control. It happens, yanno? And yet again she's displaying behaviour that's downright cruel and sadistic, because she's in a psychotic delusion and can't access her conscience or fondness for people, and unfortunately among her targets are her own deeply loved young sons.

There are several ways to respond to this sad but dramatic plot twist, and some of them, from various readers, are as follows -

A) Oh, how terrible! She's going to feel so guilty when she finally comes to her senses! She needs to be stopped for her own sake! (paraphrase)
B) This is awful. She's really violent, and needs to be stopped because she's causing serious and potentially permanent damage to people, plus she'll have to deal with it and that sucks for her. (paraphrase)
C) While I sympathise with the fact that she's ill, I feel that a willingness to take extreme measures to stop her is going to be necessary here, and if she were sane she'd be the first to say so herself, because it isn't fair to make her deal with the guilt afterwards either (paraphrase)
D) I hate you R! I hope J shoots you in your dumb head! Right between your nutter eyes!!!

One of these things is not like the other! One of these things just doesn't belong! That is not a paraphrase. Actual words. And in another review we get this gem: Oh, how I wish M were there and would take out R, she's needs to go down-hard! (The M you so love is canonically a psychotic mass murderer. >_< But he is sexy and has FoeYay with D so...)

And when you get called on it? Instead of apologising straight off and saying 'no, sorry, I was just exaggerating and not thinking and I was wrong to say it' you complain that the person that called you out is being condescending (ORLY? I wonder why!) and try to weasel out of it by saying your brother is mentally ill and violent and abuses you so you actually do know What You're Talkin' 'Bout, Willis.

What the ACTUAL FUCK? I get that this might have triggered bad shit for you, really I do, but you should KNOW BETTER.

TL;DR - Your habit of blaming the victim is giving me SO MUCH CAPSLOCK RAGE.

Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:10:21 GMT

In the last post people were requesting a Snapefen comm, here it is... dedfromsnake

It is pretty basic and without any mods but it's there from anyone who wishes to post and/or read the Snapefen/Snapewives gibberish.

Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:41:08 GMT

I'm sorry for posting Snapewank again, but this seriously pissed me off. Maybe somebody will create a wank community only for Snapewives and leave HMS_STFU only for Harmoanians and all other wank (I can't do it myself, because I don't have a paid account)?

Anyway... All posts were made by Silver Ink Pot.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=127322&page=17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took
But then Sev went and joined the very people who wanted her dead.

I'm not sure who wanted her dead when they were fifteen? I really don't get that. Just saying "Mudblood" in the books is not equal to wanting someone dead. Draco, who uses that word all the time and actually became a DE, never tried to kill Hermione, for instance, and actually refuses to identify her to his own father, then does the same with Harry, and before that he couldn't kill Dumbledore. So DE doesn't equal "racist murderer" in my mind, because we don't have proof that every DE was a murderer. That's an example of the "shades of gray" theory, in my opinion.

Teenagers who aren't even DEs yet shouldn't be labeled "murderer." Harry refused to label Stan Shunpike as a DE even though he was flying around with them, and we know that Snape was there too and not actually trying to kill everyone he saw. Yes, it's bad company, but I'm glad that Harry at least stopped making sweeping generalities about Death Eaters. (No broomstick pun intended)

Anyway, in my opinion, there's not one shred of evidence that Mulciber or anyone else wanted Lily dead at that time. Snape certainly didn't want her dead at fifteen, even if Lily's friend did want him dead and tried to make it happen.

No one wanted her dead until quite a few years in the future, which no one saw coming. If she hadn't been Harry's mother, Voldemort wouldn't have cared about Lily at all once she turned down his offer to join the DEs. What I wonder is why Voldemort wanted her and James for the DEs? But that's for another discussion.

The bottom line is, no one was hunting her down until she became a mother, so this idea that Lily was in danger from Snape's friends at Hogwarts just doesn't ring true for me. I think she is exaggerating and blowing it out of proportion, and the reverse is true: Lily thinks Snape is exaggerating about James and his friends. So to me, they are equally wrong in their perceptions. JMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl
I know people interpret the final scene between Lily and Sev differently, but the first time I read the scene, I did think Lily was giving him a chance to speak and deny that no, he wouldn't ever join the Death Eaters.

This he fails to do. And that is why I believe this whole thing is his worst memory, and why he gave Harry this specific, very painful, memory, so that Harry could see and understand -- at last -- what it was Severus was making reparation for.

No, I understand that. But my point is just that he never asserted himself with her again. He didn't keep coming back to bother her, and he let her go her own way.

I don't think of Snape as an "assertive" character where Lily is concerned. I agree with Minerva'sCat that from the time they are children in those memories, Lily leads the conversation the way she wants it to go. That's just the way I see it after reading Prince's Tale many times over the years.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=107896&page=57

Quote:
I have to say one thing here. If it had been my daughter or my sister in Lily's place, I would have congratulated her and supported her decision. I mean, isn't that what we were all warned off as teenagers? Not to hang out with the wrong sort, not to succumb to peer pressure, and all that?

Right, and Snape was warning her not to hang around with the wrong sort that he saw in Gryffindor. Snape didn't see himself as the evil element in Lily's life because he was in love with her. He was afraid for her because she didn't know Lupin was a werewolf, and she didn't believe him. He didn't know James and Sirius were Animagi, but he knew they were sneaking out to be with a werewolf and Lily didn't know, so he was warning her about her own peer group.

So, to me, Lily was feeling peer pressure from Gryffindor, "explaining" Snape to her friends probably just because he was a Slytherin. Lily took up for James who had just attacked her friend that same afternoon and told Snape he should be grateful to him. She's just the Gryffindor version of Snape in Slytherin going along with his friends and not seeing them as so bad. To me they are equally susceptible to peer pressure.

The only difference is, Lily never left her peer group, and in fact got even more involved with the Marauders until they were her only friends left, while Snape broke off from his peer group and probably turned Mulciber in to the Ministry so he could go to Azkaban. And really, what happened to his peer group was nearly the same as Lily's: Peter was the traitor there and Sirius went to Azkaban.

It's almost like a mirror image because Lily was the focus of both sides due to being Harry's mother. Snape turned on Voldemort, ratted out Mulciber, and tried to save Lily. Peter turned on Dumbledore, ratted out and framed Sirius, and got Lily killed.

http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=8882.135

Here's something that is driving me crazy today.

Where is the canon that Snape's friends in Slytherin actually wanted Lily dead? I just read Prince's Tale again and I don't see it there. They call her "Mudblood" but there's no canon that anyone is planning to kill any Mudbloods at the age of 15.

In the hallway scene, we know that Snape had just been thrashed by Lily's friends, the same friends who nearly got him killed a few days before during the Werewolf Incident. So someone wanted Snape dead, there's no doubt, but whether Lily was in danger at that time is debatable.

And really, the only reason Lily was ever in danger had nothing to do with her Mudblood status, but the fact that she was Harry's mother. That was years later. Snape never dreamed that Lily would be in any danger from his friends and there's no canon that any of them came after her, only that Mulciber did "something" to her friend Mary. Was what Mulciber did any worse than things we see other teenagers doing in the books? I doubt it.

To me, this idea that Lily was somehow in danger from Snape's friends doesn't fit the canon that Lily was a witch to be reckoned with either. She wasn't some victim waiting for the Slytherins to come and zap her. In every scene, she takes control of it. Snape is beaten down like her puppy dog, which is sad to see, but not unusual for a teenage boy in love. She's the one with the ability to hurt him the most and she takes every opportunity.

{/rant over}

Straight from deviantart

Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:20:06 GMT

Like many others here, I adore bad manips and bad fanart. On spitting_image a while back, there was a very memorable post that featured RedPassion and her rather... odd historical crush. It provided me with so many yuks that I went back today.

And guess what? She's also a Snapewife! I'll give her credit for at least having better Photoshop skills than Snape's Rose. (And I was delighted to see she unlocked her Photobucket account again! It always gives me a laugh. Although not content to stick with Mark Harmon, Johnny Depp and David Tennant can also be seen badly photoshopped with Snape.)

Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:22:58 GMT

A small but silly wank.

TwiggyMcBones posts a cute Rose and Scorpius Commission to DeviantArt. Harpsiccord/harpsi-fizz, who virulently hates Ron/Hermione, comments with

Oh, wow! I love what you did with Rose's hair!
This makes me curious to see what you'd do with a half-Cthulhu-Starspawn child, if you know what I mean (speaking of artistic depictions of abhorrent breeding crimes against nature and all, which you make so cute here!)

LOL

Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:43:24 GMT

Snapewives on Snape Character Analysis from COS forums are also wanking about Lily (it's like regularly sheduled wank or something)

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=127322&page=14

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=127322&page=15

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=127322&page=16

Some quotes:

Minervas Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl Took
She did. She tells him, and she is clearly anxious about the issue, that she is worried about his association with Mulciber and Avery. Sev brushes it off.

I got a different feeling from that scene. It seemed to me she was a lot more worried about having to make excuses and apologize for Severus than she was about his wellbeing.

She makes it clear then, during the first discussin we see, and, also after SWM, that it's a great burden to her to have to keep apologizing to her friends for Severus because of his hanging around with Mulciber and Avery. She says they use Dark Magic, but she doesn't follow up by indicating any concern for Severus, only concern for her standing with all of her friends. "None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you." I'd hope at least one of her friends, Severus, himself, would understand why she talked to him.

I'm not sure Severus brushed off her comments in that first scene, or became so enthralled by her criticizim of James that he just dropped the subject to bask in that for a bit. Harry notices the change in Severus demeanor while viewing the memory.

With the pantsing, I might think that having his underwear showing and having attention called to it was probably stressful enough to elicit a few unsavory words, even if it wasn't removed until after Lily left.

sekhmetlion

OMG, I was starting to think I live in another planet, or I am really strange person who read a totally different texte in TPT.

Of course, calling a foul name to someone is not to be considered the same when you do it on cold blood, than when you do it while being humillated like that. And I don't buy the "you say the truth when you slip out" argument, I actually think you just shout the worst that is in your brain when you are that upset.

And her reaction, both by the lake and in front of the portrait, was not that of a close friend, it was that of a person who is more worried by her social status than by her friend's well being.

Her arguments, to convince Snape were a mix of "my friends don't like you" (so peer pressure here) and "you are joining the bad side" (so gang concern, but not properly rationalised so that he could understand, just parroting what was considered to be the correct side). None of her arguments was rational enough so that he would be convinced.

Also her attitude in the courtyard when they are arguing, she clearly owns the relationship in a way that it is very noticeable how she stops his arguments about Lupin being a werewolf, but she throws her own at him about how good the Marauders are because James saved him.

I really can't imagine Harry acting like that with Ron and Hermione, and of course Harry would have understood and forgiven. So by the time of their fifth year, Lily, despite being a very good person, was already self-consumed by her own popularity.
Normally when a relationship is broken it is not only one part's fault, but both, other wise a "perfect" Lily would be a perfect MarySue.

Quote:
Lily noted that Severus called other Muggleborns that same thing.

That was in the portrait scene, and by that time she had already taken her choice, she never discuss that calmly with Severus, she just throws it in his face when it is too late for him to counter it. I would have been different if she had said that in the courtyard.

Quote:
I don't think she considered herself Severus's close friend at that point, as he seems to have indicated that he thought she was dirt.

So you agree with me because she had given up on him before he called her mudblood.

Quote:
Why weren't these arguments rational to Severus, though? Or the one's about the Death Eaters? Or Dark Arts?

In the courtyard she didn't make any argument about DE or DA, she only states that what they are doing is evil, in a very dogmatic way, whithout explainin why it is evil and not a laugh as Snape thinks. To convince someone something is bad you must explain why it is bad, not just state that it is. It would take a blind follower to follow such a "command" or statement without judging, and Snape is not a blind follower, he considers himself her equal. There she seems to expect him to do as she says just because she says so, but without elaborating, meaning she consideres Severus a follower.

Quote:
I think Lily directly asks Severus questions that Severus doesn't want to answer. It appears to me that Severus is sneakily trying to control his relationship with Lily using methods she doesn't approve of-- namely targetting anyone he doesn't like and suspects might try to be friends with her.

Or rather questions he can't answer, because by keeping silence at the risk of making a fool of himself in front of Lily he is keeping Lupin's secret safe, so Severus is being noble here.
Maybe he tries to control or to be on the line subtly, but I see this as the natural reaction when he feels her slipping away from him. He is trying to convey he is a good person, not as bad as others paint him and others are not the saints everybody think they are.

Quote:
In your opinion, maybe. It's hardly a canon fact that Lily was consumed by popularity. I can't see how.

So a person parroting once and another what her friends think of her best friend, and not wanting to listen to any of his arguments against them is not friend-consumed?

Quote:
In my view, though, if she continued to be Severus's friend, she would not be perfect, she would be a delusional doormat

Or a forgiving and understanding person who accepts her friend's true sorrow and gives him an opportunity to straight his life just like Dumbledore did.

Minervas Cat

Quote:
Lily noted that Severus called other Muggleborns that same thing.

But, we never see this in canon, just Lily's word for it. IMO, if Severus had been that far gone into Dark Arts and the DE world it would have been mentioned specifically, and also, I think Lily would have distanced herself from him much earlier than she did. But, she still reassures him that they are best friends.

Lily doen't take heed of Severus' warnings about Lupin anymore than Severus takes heed of Lily's warnings about Mulciber and Avery. It is possible that they thought they "knew" their housemates and were safe with them.

Quote:
I don't think she considered herself Severus's close friend at that point, as he seems to have indicated that he thought she was dirt. Why would Severus still believe she was his best friend, when he thought so little of her and told her so to her face? Or when he was harrassing people with a birth status like hers because of their birth status? I think she was worried about her social status as a human being. She was in danger of being stripped of all rights or even killed because of the social ideals that Severus supported. I'm not sure why Severus would expect her to remain his close friend after all that, unless he had some sort of disconnect with reality.

Severus did not make the comment to Lily, but to James when taunted about Lily's coming to his aid.

I still do not agree that his outcry during SWM was a "conscious act." I feel that most people, in that stressful a situation, would cry out in pain and humiliation. And, as I said previously, it is unfortunate, but we are not always in control of what he cry out.

I used Ron's statement to Harry about his parents as an example. While it was not "racist," it was an extremely hurtful thing to say, especially since Lily's sacrificed her life to save Harry. I don't think Ron, in his normal frame of mind, would have said that to Harry. But, under the pressures of the quest for the Horcruxes and the things that were still going on back home, Ron cracked. It's human.

Quote:
Why weren't these arguments rational to Severus, though? Or the one's about the Death Eaters? Or Dark Arts? What was it in Severus's personality that caused him to think it irrational for a Muggleborn to be worried about the Death Eaters or Voldemort or being called a racist slur? Or to believe that being against the Dark Arts was an irrational concern?

For the same reason his warnings about the Marauders and Lupin were not rational to Lily. These were their Housemates, and, I have a feeling each thought they knew their own Housemates better than the other knew them. Each may have felt safe with them, although there was definite danger in both instances. Each chose their loyalty to their House over the other's warnings.

Being against the Dark Arts wasn't irrational, but neither was being concerned about the presence of a werewolf in the school. As far as Lily being concerned about Severus, until SWM, it is indicated that he did not consider Lily anything but another magical being. He didn't see her as Muggle-born because she had "loads of magic." He tries to express to her that he didn't really consider her a "Mudblood," and, even though he seems to get this point across, becaus he singles her out from other Muggle-borns, she is even more angry with him.

I don't see either of them coming out of that whole incident spotless.

Quote:
I think Severus cared that Lupin was a werewolf, but he could percieve that Lily didn't care about that. Her question was about his obsession with the Marauders and stalking Lupin. I think Lily directly asks Severus questions that Severus doesn't want to answer. It appears to me that Severus is sneakily trying to control his relationship with Lily using methods she doesn't approve of-- namely targetting anyone he doesn't like and suspects might try to be friends with her.

Lily asks Severus questions which he tries to answer. From everything we're shown, he is always awkward and nervous around her unless he is talking about Hogwarts and magic. Otherwise he seems to stammer and stutter a lot, especially when she is admonishing him about something. IMO, he wasn't able to verbalize his thoughts, and, she wasn't giving him much time to do so as she was raking him over the coals.

Quote:
In your opinion, maybe. It's hardly a canon fact that Lily was consumed by popularity. I can't see how. In my opinion, she doesn't owe Severus friendship, and she's not indulging her popularity to want to break off a friendship with someone who doesn't respect her or her safety.

I don't think she was "consumed" by it, but, like most teenage girls, she was concerned about it. She makes it very clear to Severus that he is a huge impediment to her social standing when she says, "None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you." She has, it seems, already eliminated him from this group.

Quote:
Actually, I don't think that makes any sense. It is predicated on the assumption that Lily is perfect, except with the one imperfection that she would not continue to be Severus's friend. In my view, though, if she continued to be Severus's friend, she would not be perfect, she would be a delusional doormat (I don't see her as perfect, anyway, more like a normal human girl, but that's just me).

Lily, like all of the other character in the series, was far from perfect. I have always interpreted her "friendship" with Severus to be based on her curiosity about the Wizarding World and not on actually liking him. That, to me, is why she is so quick to jump on him everytime something goes wrong (the limb falling on Petunia, peeking at the letter from Hogwarts, her embarassment with her friends about Severus, Severus' lack of gratitude for James saving his life, etc.). I've never thought Lily was perfect.

sekhmetlion

However I do think there is a whole part of Snape she didn't like from the begining: the mean part of him, she doesn't like it and she tries to erradicate it, even if she has part in this mean behaviour (because she helped in peeking in Petunia's letter), later on, this behaviour seemed to be increased. But, while not liking meanness isn't bad, it is a defect the fact that she never tried to understand Severus himself, she just accepted what she saw, but never tried to put herelf in his shoes. So when the time came she didn't understand and didn't try to, because he was a social burden to her. As Minerva'sCat said, teenange girls are often very concerned about their social status, and Lily was no exception.

Sun, 20 Feb 2011 12:02:16 GMT

Lily's Hypocrisy. Now with more wank and misogyny.

Silver Ink Pot

One theory I have is that Snape reminded Harry of Petunia, the person who ruined all his fun at home with her discipline. She was also a taskmaster like Snape, and expected Harry to do chores. So to Harry, Petunia let the spoiled Dudders get away with murder, just as Snape seemed to let Draco get away with . . . well, almost murder in HBP.

Since Lily raked Snape over hot coals about Petunia several times and blamed him for her own bad relationship with her sister, it must have really been bitter for Snape to read that letter to Sirius and realize that she didn't seem to love Petunia anymore either. She had left her sister behind, just as she had left Snape behind.
...
I really doubt that Severus ever saved Lily from his friends in Slytherin. My perception is that Lily is a cross between Hermione and Ginny, so not someone they would go after. We never see Draco, Crabbe and Goyle bothering Ginny, who is famous for the bat-bogey curse.

One reason Lily comes across as unfair is the way things are told versus "shown" to us in the books. Lily tells us that Snape's friends are young DEs and bullies, but we don't actually see them bullying anyone, we just take her word that Mulciber has done something horrible to her friend Mary.

But when she blames Snape for being just like Mulciber, it doesn't ring true becasue we don't even see Snape bullying anyone as a child, not even the branch scene with Petunia which seems like accidental magic against someone who is insulting him.

ETA: and now we have a new page.

An excerpt:

Nyctalus

Canon, as I see it, doesn't exclude the possibility that Lily also had some really good qualities. It's just that they aren't shown in the books, while I think her negative qualities do show clearly. On page, Lily is always quicker to judge than to listen, while in other characters' mentioning she appears tolerant and uncommonly kind. It just doesn't fit together.

As for the blood supremacy issue I get the impression it was being used as an excuse for Lily to dismiss Severus, independently of whether he actually embraced it or not. Interestingly, this issue is not mentioned at all when Lily first berates Severus for his "friends's" behavior. And yet, it could very easily have been included, for example by stating that Mary MacDonald were Muggleborn.

But in SWM, when the issue is suddenly brought up, Lily isn't the slightest bit interested in WHY Severus would actually call her "mudblood". Why did he think she deserved a slur at all; isn't that very strange, her trying to help him and all? If he disliked Muggleborns so much, how come he wanted to even befriend HER in the first place? And why on earth come trying to apologize afterwards?

Either Lily has problems with her logics, or it's all actually about something else. My guess is that it was never about ideologies or beliefs in the first place, or diverging opinions or even Severus saying hurtful things to Lily or anyone else. It was about Severus never being good enough for Lily, never worthy of anything else than blame. And later it was about James Potter and Lily's feelings for him. Severus approached her first, but their friendship seems to always have been entirely on her terms, and she acts as if he should be grateful to be her aquiantance and even grateful to be alive. Basically, she doesn't need him, and now he's an obstacle, so by the time a conflict does approach, he has to go.

ETA: And, by the way, I think the REAL reason Lily was furious after SWM wasn't anything Severus did to her; it was that she was utterly disappointed with James, that he wasn't the knight in shining armor she had hoped for, the arrogant but noble life-saver she had tried to convince Severus about. Instead, he was even worse than Severus had painted him; Severus was right all along, and now she was made a fool of. How convenient, though, that Severus did throw that slur at her, so the underlying issue didn't need to be brought up...

Quote from: SIP
But the story is that Lily has known Severus since childhood and they are "best friends." When your best friend is in trouble you help them, and not in some half-assed way during which you flirt with a bully. When your best friend apologizes, you listen, and you don't reject them forever just because you've made a new friend.
I couldn't agree more.

Silver Ink Pot

Yes, it would be different if Lily had said, "I was trying to help you, Sev! I was on your side! How can you thank me by calling me a name?"

But no. That isn't the conversation we have on the page. It's all about Lily's friends and how she's had to explain about their friendship "for years." It's been so hard on her.

And the stuff about Mary and whatever Mulciber did to her under the Imperious: Why in the world is that worse than what James just did to Severus?

Wasn't James just as horrible to disarm, petrify, scourgify, and depants Snape?

I think Lily is one mixed-up girl, if she can justify that. If Snape is a racist, then Lily is just as wrong to be indifferent towards suffering just because Severus is (a) a boy and (b) in Slytherin.
...
The racist thing is just an excuse to give Severus her final ultimatum. We have no way of knowing how many times she thought about dumping him before this, but the clue is in that line about "years" of explaining to her friends. I think she was ready to let Snape go so she did. It wouldn't have mattered whether he said that word or not - it could have easily been some other reason in the future.

And now we're back to Lily bashing....

Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:42:34 GMT

Damn, it's like ever since SIP wrote that James essay (or do we count the Doctor Who posts?), the "blaming everyone for screwing Snape over including the author" just keeps on coming.

And now we return to the Lily hate:

MinervasCat:
"Just catching up. This was great, SIP, as usual. I've never liked Lily and always wondered why everyone sang her praises so.

As far as I was concerned, even reading the books the first time through, she glommed on to Severus because he could tell her about magic. That was it. She tolerated him as long as he was useful, then, when she no longer needed him, she cast him adrift.

When she told him how she'd been defending him for years, that really made me want to just shake her. But then she says: "None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you." So, she totally excludes him. None of her friends...isn't he her friend -- her BEST FRIEND???

This was a fantastic piece, and put the image of St. Lily the Loyal Friend right in the same garbage bin as the image of St. James the Wonderful.

When Harry and Ron had the argument in DH and Ron throws in Harry's face that he doesn't have any parents to worry about, that was about as hurtful a thing as anyone could say, much less a friend. To me, that would be more hurtful that having my frined call me a nasty name while he is in the throes of total frustration and humiliation. But, Harry forgives Ron -- Harry always forgives Ron, no matter what, and Ron always forgives him. And, as a wise little Donkey once said, "That's what friends do. They forgive each other."

So, Lily was not only a hypocrite, whe was a liar, IMO. She was never friends with Severus. He was a means to an end. She was heading into a world she had no clue about. He opened it up to her and led her by the hand into it. He did this with a pure heart and not for any gain, save her friendship and affection. Not much to ask. She, in turn, gives him the boot. Yet, he loves her until the day he dies.

I think I need to go have a good cry right about now."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the second time I've read wanting to inflict violence on a woman coming from this forum. (The first time when one of them said they wanted to slap Mcgonagall for being convinced Snape was on the bad side in HBP.) Has anything like this been said about a male character that I'm not aware of?

Nyctalus:
"There’s something sentimentally sick with the Lily Cult, as I see it. The Potters were massacred – wandless – in their home, and according to Hagrid in PS/SS, it wasn’t publicly known why Harry survived the attack, only that Voldemort obviously vanished while trying to attack the baby. And yet there’s a statue of the three of them at Godric’s Hollow, which I find a bit weird. They aren’t actually known for any particularly heroic deeds, except “defying the Dark Lord thrice” (which Neville’s parents did too – no statue of them, though). And all JKR has said about it is that they refused to get recruited to his ranks.

Oh, we're the Lily cult now..... :-)

"ETA: One thing that strikes me about Lily is that she appears to have quite a few of the faults that Snape is accused of by many readers. Snape is said to be "unfair" as a teacher, but Lily is unfair to him from start, and yet he wants to be her friend. Adult Snape appears prone to criticizing people, but so does young Lily indeed. Snape seems prejudiced in his view of Harry, assuming a lot about Harry's motives. And yet, that's exactly what Lily does regarding Snape's motives. It seems like the way we are treated as kids might very much color our future behavior...."

And yet you have no problem with Snape's behavior. Yea, Okay.

MinervasCat
"I, personally, think Lily and James deserved each other. What really upsets me is how she led Severus on for so long until she became popular enough and self-assured enought that she didn't need him anymore, then used his "friends" and the "Mudblood" incident to rid herself of him.

I could see her being upset over the incident. But, to not even make an effort to listen to her "best friend" as he pours his heart out to her in the best way he could, since he always seemed to come unglued anytime he was confronted by her.

Teenage girls are a lot of things: drama queens, immotionally immature, judgemental. One they they are also, is savvy to the attentions of boys. Lily had to know the way Severus looked at her, the way his face lit up when she said his name, the way even Harry saw a spring in his step after she had criticized James (in SWM). She had to knwo he was in love with her. Did she not have the guts to let him down gently? Was that why she took that opportunity to cut him off? Because she did know and wasn't interested, but, since she'd led him on for so long she couldn't find the courage to just say that they would never be more than friends? I think he would have understood that. I think he knew he wasn't doing to ride off into the sunset with the heroine. But to be told that "None of her friends" could understand why she had anything to do with him....how cruel can you get?"

Wow MinervasCat. Can I just assume you know this because you used to be just like those girls you describe, or are you going to pull the same bull every misogynist female makes and say "Oh no, I wasn't like those girls...."

SIP
"I think that line about Severus being "ungrateful" to James is one of most disturbing lines in the whole series.

It's like saying that Harry should be "grateful" to Dudley that he didn't drown him in the toilet at age 4.

Or that Neville should be grateful to for Draco cursing him, stealing his remembrall, and calling him a "fat arse."

Or Hagrid should be grateful to Tom Riddle for accusing him of murder, getting him expelled, and getting his wand snapped so he couldn't do magic anymore.

That sounds crazy, though, doesn't it? To me, Lily sounds crazy. I bet Snape thought Sirius had confunded her, just as later he thinks Sirius had confunded the Trio.

Should he be "grateful" for the de-pantsing in front of the whole school too? That's twisted."

But....James DID SAVE Snape...and it's not the same....oh never mind!

fifthoffive
"Glad to have found this.

It's amazing that Lily expects Severus to reject his housemates for their bad behavior, yet she doesn't think she should reject hers for the exact same reason.

Many readers seem to believe that the fact that Lily was sorted into Gryffindor is an indication of her innate goodness (along with the Marauders). The whole house system is used to send readers skipping down the garden path - it's easy to detect the heroes and the villains by their house. Some never seem to get over that.

I believe the sorting shows that Lily never viewed Severus as a true friend. She was intrigued by the glib, wealthier, more attractive boys she met on the train. Lily started rejecting Severus from her first encounter with other wizards."

Golddigger since the very beginning people!

"Severus never does this to Lily, regardless her choice of friends. I daresay he had been more damaged by the Marauders than she was by the slur Severus threw at her in his distress. Furthermore, she doesn't seem to have been a target of Severus's housemates, as he was a target of hers. I wonder if Severus had intervened on her behalf."

Yea he does. When she's targeted for the MURDER by the leader of the group THEY joined, and we all know how that turned out for the both of them.

Wed, 16 Feb 2011 23:43:50 GMT

Wanky Snapewives are very active this month.

Harry’s Unpopularity: A Conspiracy Theory by terri_testing.

Some quotes:

Harry’s remarkably hard to get to know, isn’t he? Remarkably hard to get close to? The only people who seem to really like Harry for himself as of the beginning of OotP are Hagrid, the Weasleys, Hermione, and Sirius.

How sure are we, really, that this reflects some flaw in Harry?

Because, consider two final things.

First, it’s convenient for Dumbledore, isn’t it, that Harry grows up with no attachment to the Muggle world, neglected, so emotionally deprived he is ready to latch on to the first friendly faces he sees? By some odd coincidence, his only relatives hate and fear magic and transfer that attitude automatically to their new ward. And by yet another odd coincidence, Harry’s first friends are among Dumbledore’s staunchest supporters.

I’m disinclined to trust in coincidences that just happen to further the Twinkly One’s plans. In fact, that are integral to it. What would have happened to Dumbles’ plans had Harry been loved by the Dursleys and absorbed their attitude to magic, or had Harry’s first friend been a Malfoy rather than a Weasley?

Secondly, Hermione told us, on the authority of the books that she stole from Dumbledore, that it is dangerous to become “too fond of or emotionally dependent on” a Horcrux object. If someone makes the error of getting “close emotionally” to the Horcrux, the encased soul-fragment may be enabled to flit out and possess the fond fool.

Harry is a Horcrux, and I’ve previously suggested that Twinkles was perfectly cognizant of that fact when he parked that Horcrux with Lily’s Muggle relatives.

I had thought that it was shocking of Twinkles to subject poor Petunia (and her family, and all the Muggles in Harry’s neighborhood and school) to the risk of being possessed.

But maybe he didn’t.

Maybe Twinkles had taken precautions against that eventuality.

Petunia’s family and neighbors, and the kids at Harry’s school, were, after all, only at risk of possession if any of them became fond of the boy.

The WW has Love Potions. And their antidotes. Entrancing Enchantments. And, presumably, their counterspells. The Veela-glamour… and there must be spells to resist that, or the refs would have given the match to Bulgaria.

If attraction/interest, whether sexual or otherwise, can be artificially created or enhanced by magic, might it not also be artificially suppressed?

Is there an enchantment, or a potion, that inhibits attraction/affection/love from developing? Oh, maybe no spell could stop True Love any more than it could start it—but could one, perhaps, put people off initially? Leave them cold?
...
Now, supposing there were such a thing and Twinkles had used it on the Harrycrux, consider Harry’s introduction to the WW. Not only does Harry need to be recruited into a political camp, but also the degree of danger posed by the potentially-infectious Horcrux must eventually be evaluated. Harry is venerated as the Boy-Who-Lived—at some point someone’s going to be fond enough of the idea of Harry to be at risk, even if s/he doesn’t actually like the boy for himself.

So, it would be prudent to select a few companions for Harry whose subsequent reactions can be carefully monitored.

Give Harry, for the first time since he was a toddler, people who are not magically inhibited from liking him (or who he’s not inhibited from liking), let friendships develop, and watch how long it takes before the friends become possessed, and what the signs are.

Now, since part of the point is indoctrination, one would naturally choose Harry’s possible friends only from among people who strongly hold the correct beliefs—the dogmas of the headmaster’s infallibility and the inferiority of dirty Slytherins, for example.

Hi ha hondelul!

Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:34:02 GMT

1) The Picture Book of James by Silver Ink Pot.

Wouldn't it be great if every line of the HP series was illustrated and the text pared down in some minimalist form so that we didn't have to argue over silly things like meanings and definitions?

I mean, Dude, seriously, I understand that as an essay writer, I'm part of the problem. I know I get wordy when talking about words, and I have this dreadful flaw of working outward from the text to find my symbolism, using illegal and old-fashioned methods such as quoting from the books, using the dictionary, and drawing my own conclusions.I can see why that would make someone pull their hair out and scream, not to mention the name-calling and the nervous breakdowns. And that's only from people who didn't actually read it, but merely saw the title of my essay in their email before getting hysterical and running out the door into the street.

That's so unfortunate, and I feel just downright terrible about it. So I'm trying to find new ways to connect with my ~~lurking~~ reading public and trying to be more responsive to their remedial needs. My long essays about symbols are apparently hard to grasp (no "snitchy" pun intended), especially since I don't label everything with some dramatic politically correct "meme" (which means "imitation" did you know that? - sorry, there I go again with my mavericky textual reading - slaps head).

So here is a very short and sweet retelling of one part of my essay James Potter's Cloak and the Vault of Immeasurable Wealth in terms that hopefully even a "4-year-old can understand" as Denzel said several times in "Philadelphia."

Please. Give me a chance before drinking more hater-ade. I can do this.

2) Lots of new comments on Unlikely Allies Chapter Eleven: Those of Great Ambition. Pure, unadulterated batshit from terri_testing and marionros. I think this exchange is my favorite:

ojuzu

If Potter’s parents and his parents’ friends were Gryffindors, then Gryffindors were the ones who left him to the Dursleys. So of course he rejected that house.

Oooh, that's a nice way to spin it.

terri_testing

Gryffindors were the ones who left him [Harry] for the Dursleys.

Spinning it this way--oh, I spun on my own axis when I spotted this particular gyration for Sev. Glad you appreciated it!

JKR's exhusband was probably James Potter

Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:23:08 GMT

This is still pretty small, but apparently SIP thinks JKR's exhusband looks like James. Because he's got dark hair and glasses like at least half the world's male population I'm guessing?

Also, is it just me or is this comment really disturbing?
wobblerlorri: "Hm. Wonder if he was an arrogant toerag of a bully?

I just looked him up (since I rarely care anything about authors, just their works) and it's peculiar that they got married, had a kid 9 months later, then divorced 4 months later and JKR moved back to the UK.

Put in horsebreeding terms (which I naturally think it), it almost sounds like she went to Portugal, got bred, and stayed there until she foaled out and the foal was old enough to travel."

Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:34:18 GMT

Moar evil James, Love Potions and conspiracy theories.

http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13578.0

subtle science

This is really interesting and points out a lot of things about James that have really bothered me--and states them coherently, as opposed to my bothered, random thoughts. This crystallizes a lot of my misgivings about James.....

First, to me--there is a tension in the novels between what JKR may have originally intended and what she eventually produced. (I've mentioned it before, I know....) James is a glaring example. In interviews, and through some of the mouthpiece characters, JKR insists James changed--and that he's a hero.

But....Where is any of that actually shown in the books? His nominally heroic acts come with a considerable baggage. He saves Snape from Lupin in the Shrieking Shack: however, that's not done from any genuinely atruistic motive, or any sudden revelation as to Snape's worth as a human being. Instead, James' primary motive is to keep his friends and himself out of major trouble: to keep Lupin from being the murder weapon wielded by the ever-dim and violent Sirius. James dies, confronting Voldemort at the front door....with the niggle that James did so without his wand--the confrontation on the doorstep was the culmination of quite a few poor to downright bad decisions.

And exactly zero in the books shows any change in James whatsoever. It's in the same category as JKR's insistence that Azkaban arrested Sirius' development. Er--no: Sirius demonstrated all of the negative qualities prior to prison; prison may have exacerbated them--but, as with James, there never was the slightest indication that Sirius ever would/did change from the wretched little brat seen on the Hogwarts Express.

All these details of James' simply taking merely underscore the fact that his character is extremely shady in the novels--not just shadowy, but truly questionable.

The end result of my mulling? I think JKR's novels would have been vastly improved had she tossed the idea of James' being a hero and gone with the bent that cannot be avoided in the books--let James have been a villain. I mean--openly. Not the tension between the creep that's shown in the books versus what JKR claims in sound bites. What is shown in the books depicts James as the parallel to Draco--the spoiled rotten, entitled, judgmental rich kid. Too bad JKR did not have (or didn't listen to) a strong-willed editor....Letting go of the idea that James had to be heroic, no matter what, would've been a huge step in making the characterization consistent.

Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:56:58 GMT

1) If you haven't read this excellent comment by purpleink, read it now!

2) terri_testing is back with more Gryffindor-bashing, Slytherin-worshipping BS.

Unlikely Allies Chapter Eleven: Those of Great Ambition

marionros

Excellent, as per usual :-)

There are several things that popped into my head as I was reading it, but if I try to put all of them into one review it will take forever and things will get tangled up and garbled, so I'll just limit myself to one observation:

I *love* the way the kids are being told what behaviour scores with different teachers. Somebody (muggleborn) should ask Hermione wether she and/or her parents would wear a t-shirt and shorts when going to a MacDonalds. Yes of course, she no doubt would say. Well, would her parents go to dinner at the Ritz in t-shirt and shorts? No, of course not. Why not? The Weasleys (and Ron and the Twins in particular) would no doubt do so. Arthur because he simply wouldn't know any better (and doesn't respect muggle culture enough to make the effort to learn about these things) and the Twins because they think that being rich means that you can be borish anywhere and people will still bow to you. Ron would no doubt brood and simmer about the 'injustice' and 'arrogance' of those who go and fine dine at the rich, and then worry about wether he doesn't look ridiculous in his second-hand robes.
The Grangers, however, would know it would be unforgivably vulgar and boorish to dress inappropriately when going out to an upscale restaurant. Why? For one thing, because the restaurant itself wants to markets itself as an upscale venue, and when it accepts punters in shorts and sandals this will decrease their marketvalue. More importantly, to go out to a chique restaurant has high entertainment value. Nobody wants to pay a large amount of money for a meal in a posh restaurant only to be treated to the sight of other guests in tatty t-shirts and shorts. Thirdly, one dresses up because it *feels good* to go to a posh venue and to dress accordingly. One does not have to be rich to go to a good restaurant, but occassionally going to one can make one feel rich and cultured for just a few hours, and putting on your sunday best only adds to that.

In short, acknowledging the dressrules of a restaurant means not only that one has manners but also that one acknowledges the rules and needs of other people than oneself, even though one derives personal pleasure of these rules as well.

The point is, knowing your teacher and his and her preferences is a sign of respect. Yes, the Slytherins play it as an advantage, but while doing so expose that they acknowledge their teacher's position of authority. In the Harry Potter books we are constantly told how awful Snape is for daring to *do his job as a teacher* and telling Harry off for *disobeying the rules* (we are very much encouraged to cheer Harry for flouting authority), and how Dumbles is teh beez knees for being permissive.

(as an aside: that dreadful schoolsong for example! We are supposed to think it wonderful, that children 'are individualistic', etc. etc., but in fact it is chaotic, unruly, plain ugly and those with the loudest mouths get to rule the others. I sooo love your dig at the Twins for their boorish behaviour, drawing out the dreadful schoolsong with their funeral march tune, and getting away with it because this kind of vulgar, bullying behaviour is encouraged, even invited by Dumbles and presented as 'funny' - which it is NOT! A doctor who worked in British prisons for more than twenty years once said that in prisons without wardens the biggest psychopaths rule. Well, in schools where the like of Dumbles run the show, the likes of the Weasley Twins rule, to the detriment of normal, nice kids. So thank you for pointing out their behaviour with the song. It is a fanfic first)

To get back to the Slytherin coda of 'knowing your teachers and behaving the way those teachers like best, it is, in its purest form, no more than polite behaviour. Yes, they want to gain from their behaviour, but that too is essentially what politeness is about, the grease between the social wheels which serves *all* the wheels right.

Love it, love it, love it.

3) Here is a good essay - Reading Against Intent: Women in fiction, authorial intent, and negative reinvention by prozacpark. Some bits of choice:

One of the things I mentioned off-handedly that I didn't really explore was the idea of what I called 'negative reinvention.' Where a person deliberately chooses to read a female character in such a way as to justify her/his dislike of the character. In the absence of the female POV, we're constantly forced to rearrange bits of the narrative in our heads for them to give them motivation that the narrative didn't care to explore. And I think how we do that, in large part, indicates how we feel about female characters in general.
...
But fandom does this canon reinvention outside of fanfic, too, and it often does it negatively and in gendered ways. I...don't think I've ever read a list of reasons to hate a male character that included any sort of comment on his sexuality? And even if they do exist, I'm willingly to bet that it's largely a sexuality established in canon and not a perception of promiscuity based on lack of morals/'revealing' outfits, etc.

I think what cemented by love for Tess, back in Roswell days, weeks before she had ever even shown up on screen, was a Dreamer-initiated hate-thread about her being a slut, and that's *still* the label applied to her? Which is ridiculous given that Tess, in two years of canon and for the duration of two lifetimes, *never* even crushed on anyone other than the guy she was married to. But she got slut-shamed even in canon by Maria.

Or how there was so much talk in BSG fandom of Dee marrying Lee for status and the fandom was fond of painting her as a gold-digger, which I never understood, given that, um, she didn’t really gain much out of the marriage that she didn’t already have? More importantly, there is no indication in canon of this, but this was a popular fanon among Dee haters. And this is a common theory about Helen of Troy? That she ran off with Paris because of all the gold in Troy. Again, why would she give up being a queen of a country just so she could go be one of the two hundred Trojan princesses? Or how so much of Klytemnestra’s motivation in modern retellings is based on her being jealous of Helen, which makes no sense because she already is the queen of the most powerful city in Greece. But women don’t want things like power or kingdoms, they would apparently rather have BEAUTY. And in absence of concrete motivations for women, they constantly get reduced to these stereotypes. They end up being gold-diggers instead of competent officers or queens, end up being jealous of other women instead of content with being rulers. They end up being whores, sluts, hussies, homewreckers.
...
And then there are Bonnie and Elena from “The Vampire Diaries.” Bonnie’s totally justified and understandable reasons for hating Damon and being wary of vampires are reduced to RACISM, so fandom can continue to hate her for not worshipping Damon. And Elena is constantly dismissed as not worthy of Damon’s and Stefan’s interest because she’s dull. Or hated for not being able to make up her mind between Damon and Stefan, or giving Damon mixed singles. All of which is entirely baffling because Elena has been very, very clear and assertive about being in love with Stefan and not at all interested in Damon in that way. Even DAMON knows this, but fandom continues to grasp for reasons to hate Elena, Bonnie, Caroline, Vala, Emma, Cordelia, and the list is probably endless.

And this is why I stay out of fandom outside of my friendslist because the rest of the fandom? Is apparently not even consuming the same canons I am because of how differently (and offensively!) they interpret the female characters I love.
...
And this tendency is especially frustrating when compared with how fandom bends over backwards defending male characters like Damon, Tyrol, Dean, Sylar, etc, while handwaving things like rape, abuse, murder, but if Emma dresses a certain way or Aeryn puts on make-up, it’s apparently reason enough to now hate them.

Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:58:36 GMT

This comment by Silver Ink Pot is so nutty, that it begs for a separate post:

The name "James" (as in Harry's father) means "supplanter" or "usurper":

Derived from the Hebrew Old Testament name "Yakov" or "Jacob"

According to Genesis 25: 26, Esau was born first with his
twin Jacob clutching his heel ("akev").
The scheming Jacob managed to persuade Esau to give up his inheritance
in exchange for a bowl of soup (“a mess of pottage”).
Next, through trickery, Jacob managed to receive their
dying father's blessing instead of Esau.

"When Esau heard the words of his father,
he cried with an exceeding great and bitter cry,
and said unto his father: 'Bless me, even me also, O my father.'
And he said: 'Thy brother came with guile, and hath taken away thy blessing.'
And he said: 'Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times:
he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing.'
Genesis 27
...
"Usurper"
a : to seize and hold (as office, place, or powers) in possession by force or without right
b : to take or make use of without right
...
I have to thank Serpentine for her encouragement with this essay. She told me to go back and find more about the name "James" and why it means "supplanter" (not just usurper). I actually meant to do that but lost the link I had, so I found even more stuff at a new link. So it was a great idea because it led me to the whole Jacob/Esau parallel.

Snape is described several times in Prince's Tale as having a "hungry" look about him, and Jacob tricked the rather famished Esau with a "bowl of pottage" (soup). Pottage! That's my new favorite word. It just means "food from a pot." What could be a better symbol of Snape than a cauldron?

It really makes me wonder though if JKR originally did have a love potion in mind. Because how else would James ever be able to trick the Half-Blood Prince with a potion? Maybe I'll think of another connection if I think about this enough.

Quote from: hwyla on Yesterday at 04:18:08 PM
And to add the the Pensieve memory - James was doodling a snitch on his test in which he wrote the initials LE

OMG! I forgot that detail!!! Thanks Hwyla - that's really significant I think, if the snitch is a metaphor for Lily!

If that's the case, then my essay actually holds water because James "nicked" the snitch (Lily) away from Snape, robbing him of what he saw as his "blessing" in life, just as Jacob robbed Esau.

I didn't want to get too far afield in this essay, but perhaps I'll write another one just about the Jacob/Esau plotline. Esau was dark with hairy arms, and Jacob tricked their blind father by covering his arms with goat skin. Esau was connected to green fields and goats (cough *bezoar* cough). Jacob also wore Esau's clothing, which makes me think of polyjuice - we can speculate on how James/Sirius could make up lots of fake shocking things to say if they had ever polyjuiced into Snape.

Here's a rather humorous retelling of the Jacob/Esau story, although unlike James/Severus both brothers lived to a ripe old age, had lots of children, and became wealthy. Sometimes the Bible is more satisfying than certain novels, if you know what I mean.
http://www.fayettedailynews.com/article.php?id_news=7480

http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13578.0

Not Getting It: The Grognard Edition

Tue, 08 Feb 2011 03:55:05 GMT

So I was perusing a thread where someone was mulling over the idea of creating a Harry Potter pen-and-paper game here, when we inevitably get a bunch of butthurt whining, some of which looks like it could have come from the comms that generate the bulk of STFU's posts. While some posters make some valid poitns about CS Lewis' unfortunate eschatological conclusions, a lot of it is just stupid.

Some choice facepalming moments.

People not being black and white was the theme of books 1,3, and 5 only. Some of the others include sanctimonious preaching to that effect. However, the actual plot of books 6 and 7 reveals that there is only team good and team evil, you are assigned to one at birth, and there is literally only one way to change sides--which is to want to bang harry's one of harry's parents. (Snape is redeemed by his love of lily, and Sirius presumably is redeemed by his love for James.) Furthermore, everything morally questionable the team good did in previous books gets retconned.

So not only does Sirius seemingly have a hitherto unexpressed desire to bang James, but there's only team evil and team good. Is that a bit like Team Edward and Team Jacob? (Also, the entire subplots about whether Draco and Dumbledore were really evil didn't happen, it would seem.)

There is one moment, I think, in the Harry Potter series, which shows Harry's true character. It's in the final "battle" between Harry and Voldemort, in which Voldemort says something to the effect of "You are only here because all your friends died for you." You know what? He's right. Harry has literally accomplished nothing on his own, except maybe Quidditch.

Harry didn't kill the Basilisk; he didn't spare Sirius Black; he didn't win the Triwizard Tournament; he didn't destroy any Horcruxes or give his life to make Voldemort vulnerable. All that was Hermione and Ron.

Rowling's work is completely incoherent. Things are supposed to be morally complicated, but they aren't. Death is supposed to be final but it's not. People do the same things for the same reasons but those actions and motives are praised or scorned because of who they are. The heroes do all the same things that the villains do and they are still 100% praiseworthy for... no adequately explained reason.

Yeah, I thought all those ressurected people in the Epilogue really threw me off guard. And all the torture and racial terrorism the Order of the Phoenix engaged in definitely sent a mixed moral message to the kids.

[/sarcasm]

Good lord these people.

All Potters are thieves, OMG!

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:18:53 GMT

Gawd. Will those people ever stop wanking?

James Potter's Cloak and the Vault of Immeasurable Wealth

http://rattlesnakeroot.livejournal.com/154482.html

Also, there are new comments here:

snapes_witch

Quote from: Ellen2 on Yesterday at 12:43:51 PM
Hmm, I'm conflicted, here.

On the one hand, I think "nice" is one of the necessary virtues of humanity. I also think it's severely underrated in modern society. I was just reading about a man in World War II who was part of a team sent into Nazi occupied Norway. The Germans were waiting for them,. Although wounded, he was the sole member of the team to survive and escape.

He survived the next few months because of dozens of people - in one case, an entire town - were willing to risk their lives to help him. Anyone who helped him was risking execution and risking his or her entire family being sent to concentration camps. In the case of the entire town that helped him, larger villages than theirs had been completely destroyed for such things.

Yet, they helped him. In incredibly, heroic ways, spurred as much by compassion as by patriotism, they faced incredible challenges to get him out alive.

Yes, they were good, compassionate people, but is that the same as being nice? Perhaps I'm drawing too fine a line because I don't think good and nice have the same definition.

To put it in the HPverse:

Lockhart was nice but not a good man.
Severus is not nice to his students especially Harry, but he's definitely a good man.

Ellen2

I tend to equate "nice" with "kind." Lockhart, with his utter selfishness and self-centeredness, certainly wasn't kind but he could be charming and agreeable, which would fit some definitions of being nice.

But, maybe I should just mention Aragorn? As Frodo said, a servant of the enemy would look fair and feel foul, while Aragorn looked foul but felt fair.

All in favor of Snape getting live, become king, and marry the elf princess, say, "Aye."

Silver Ink Pot

AYE!!!!!!!!!

I think Aragorn is the perfect parallel!

The elf princess, eh? Do they even remember how the Potterverse elves look like?

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:54:45 GMT

http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13457.15:

subtle science

Nyctalus, I think that really reaches into the heart of why what the books say is so different from what JKR says: she actually gave Snape a sympathetic backstory; there were some very clear motives for his going the wrong way in life--and then he reversed direction and devoted his life to eradicating that wrong path for anyone else. That's a heroic journey, and the idea that he's physically unattractive or prone to sarcasm cannot countervail the essential worth of the character.

On the other hand, the more that was revealed about the Marauders, the more unsavory they became. They weren't just fun-loving and energetic--they were bullies....and proud of their bullying, as bullies usually are. Their version of their past, given by them, is basically that everything was everyone else's fault--for instance, when Sirius and Lupin try to justify SWM to Harry. However, that scene on the first train ride to Hogwarts, depicted in DH, puts the nail in the coffin of the Marauders' reputation: a pair of spoiled, elitist brats pick on the geeky kid for no reason whatsoever except his obvious "outsider" status. I'd argue that that one scene alone counters everything JKR has claimed about the Marauders and Snape, post-publication. One thing the scene does is prove that the Marauders' versions of the past are revisionist history--their veracity is stripped away. They're liars, period. And they do it for self preservation, to maintain their inflated views of themselves.

In contrast, you've got Snape--who can be brutally honest, as when he makes Harry copy the detention cards that illustrate the mindlessly moronic way James and Sirius spent their school years. He calls it as he sees it. His only lying is done in the service of others: to deceive Voldemort. Time and again, throughout the series, it's Snape's version of events that is supported by further evidence; time and again, it's shown that the Marauders' warped the truth in order to make themselves look better.

Olwen

The detention scene is another one of those instances where JKR has everything to say about Snape's character and those of the Marauders. Harry should have been expelled for hurting Draco in such a way, as McGonagall points out. Interestingly, he has detention with Snape over the course of a few months, during which Snape gives him ample time to read and think about his father's and Sirius's behaviour while they were students.

The punishment isn't about 'getting' Harry Potter; it's an attempt to set him straight about his father and Sirius, as Hasrry is at a crossroads in his own life, choosing to use a spell that inflicts serious harm on Draco, even if unwittingly. The cards with their history of 'pranks' like making hexing someone's head to swell are a reminder how others suffer when someone begins to believe he's above the law, or has the right to inflict suffering because of a false sense of entitlement, or as is more likely in Harry's case, reacts without thinking or caring about the consequences. And if anyone knows about being at a crossroad and choosing the wrong path, it's Snape.

Whatever Snape's personal feelings for Harry are or are not, he has made it his duty to protect Harry, and so he's going to show Harry the unsavory side of the Marauders - the arrogant disregard for others outside their clique. In his life, Snape went through a transformation - he endured a lot as a child and student, he witnessed horrors as a DE, and he caused Lily's death. In the end, he came through it all the type of wizard who would choose the Expelliarmus, over a spell. He became about defense, rather than offense, and this is what he's trying to teach Harry on those Saturday afternoons in the dungeon, trying to reroute Harry from the same heedless, headstrong behaviour that was the downfall of James and Sirius.

I always think of this as a lost opportunity for Harry - had he asked, he would have been told the truth.

Nyctalus

I agree; The Marauders, as they come across in the books, seem to represent the kind of people who pick on “geeks”, and that train memory, together with James’ ‘because-he-exists’ comment in SWM, are enough to seal the case for me. And I think they’re proud of their bullying; even if they try to appear differently, their actions speak louder than their words. In the light of what later is shown to have happened on the first train ride to Hogwarts, their excuses when Harry wants things cleared out in OotP are definitely revisionist
...
They both try to play down the seriousness of what happened in SWM, Sirius claiming not to be “proud of it”. But in PoA Sirius did seem proud of having lured Snape into confrontation with a werewolf, since he thought that it “served him right”. And Lupin didn’t contradict him. But directly after the conversation quoted above, both Marauders get very upset when they hear Snape has stopped the Occlumency lessons because of Harry seeing SWM. They are clearly completely clueless about what extent of damage they have caused a fellow student by their bullying, even when they have it presented right before their noses. No people are as blind as those who refuse to see. I think their cheerful behavior while trying to excuse their own actions is indeed despicable and distasteful, and it stands in stark contrast to their own indignation towards Snape when they realize the consequence for Harry of this.

James is claimed to have been a good person who eventually changed behavior (although he was still hexing Snape in 7:th year without Lily knowing and JKR never shows us anything indicating he actually did change) and Lupin thinks Harry shouldn’t judge his father by this single event. But James’ and Sirius’ behavior as 11-year-old kids in TPT clearly shows that their bullying of Snape started for no reason at all but their own feeling of superiority, and that the supposed “Dark Arts Oddball” or Snape’s supposed jealousy had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Quote from: Olwen
He's about defense, rather than offense, and this is what he's trying to teach Harry on those Saturday afternoons in the dungeon, and he's also about rerouting Harry from the same heedless, headstrong behavior that was the downfall of James and Sirius.
That’s very true; Snape is all about defense – and he always was. I can’t remember of a single instance (and I really don’t count the planned mercy-killing of Dumbledore) when Snape is seen to actually start an attack on people, not even when he was younger. Which is part of the reason I think the books show us someone who was never actually that “bad” for his redemption arc to be a 180 degrees turnaround. He might have been indifferent to others’ attacks on people at some point, though, but eventually I believe he learned that no-one is ‘entitled’ to this kind of behavior, no matter what excuses they want to raise.

subtle science

Lupin's whole bit about Snape's being jealous of James--he emphasizes it in PoA, too--makes little sense, after what is actually shown in DH. The idea that Snape was envious of James' Quidditch prowess is absurd: the geeky kid who labored over perfecting potions would care about that? The one thing it is likely that Snape was jealous about would be James' relationship with Lily. Especially seeing as he tries to warn Lily about James' true nature, and she is already buying the Marauders' revisionist history.

JKR claims that James changed and has Sirius and Lupin claim it, too--yet nothing in the books shows this. Zero. In fact, that he didn't change is indicated by that conversation in OotP and reinforced by Lily's letter in DH; the dreadful prequel is further evidence. James never grew up.

Snape did. He struggled with the damage done to him, but his story ends up being one of someone who worked around and despite that damage to do something worthwhile.

It's kind of funny how, although he's presented as very intimidating and he's got the former DE reputation behind him, he's surprisingly nonviolent. I know posters elsewhere are big on claiming that Snape surely was a killer as a DE--yet that's a really debatable point, considering what's shown in the books. He may well have killed when he served Voldemort; however, the implication given in the novels is that he didn't. Bellatrix accuses him of being a wimp who never gets his hands dirty--and Snape doesn't cite instances of his acts of violence to contradict her. When he could've done far more damage to James than the facial gash--he doesn't; he also doesn't kill Sirius, in PoA--when, in fact, he'd have the perfect cover story to exonerate him if he did. Instead, he saves Sirius' life. He disarms opponents. And he's a healer. Nothing adds up to a killer. And, if he did kill, it obviously goes against his basic nature--and it's something he's appalled by, later in life, when asked to do so by Dumbledore.

Nyctalus

Quote from: Silver Ink Pot
Isn't it interesting that Harry embraces his "inner geek" in HBP when he suddenly finds a book he likes to read all the time - even sleeping with his favorite book! What geek hasn't done that?
SIP, I agree - this is very interesting! Great catch! In HBP, we have suddenly a whole new, bookish Harry. I think he’s fascinated, at first, that a student can actually improve the (to Harry utterly boring) schoolbooks and make it work - that’s what gets him hooked with “The Prince’s” potions book. And Prince’s solutions were simpler and yet more brilliant, which must have caught Harry’s attention, since it proved very useful to him.

Although Harry is not a “geek” in the sense that he is fascinated with knowledge, he does identify with this guy even at an emotional level, which I find very typical of Harry, who is often rather empathetic.

Quote
But that turns out to be just a phase he was going through. In DH, Harry is back to letting Hermione figure everything out for him, and we never see him reading a book again.
In fact, he does read another book: Rita Skeeter’s “The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore”. He actually reads a whole chapter! And after that, he’s miserable… So I guess books just haven’t brought Harry any satisfaction, except for the Prince’s book, which, sadly, I think he later feels a bit ashamed of having been fascinated by.

As for Hermione, I think Harry uses her as a bit of a mental stand-in for a mother, but only to the point he decides: he usually expects her to do the thinking and reflecting and to look out for security and solutions, in addition to practical housework like cooking. But when it comes to the decision making (and this is one of the somewhat anti-feminist traits in JKR’s work that tends to annoy me a bit) Hermione shrinks away and leaves it all to Harry. Who keeps making reckless and dangerous decisions to the very end of the book. If it hadn’t been for Hermione’s “geekiness” however, Harry would have been dead loooong ago.

The thing that does surprise me the most about Harry in DH, however, is his sudden capacity of deduction; how on earth did he manage to figure out who was the actual master of the Elder Wand in the end?

Quote
He goes back to newspaper and the radio, and he doesn't use any of the potions knowledge he gained from The Prince. Nineteen years later he is doing Auror stuff and Daddy stuff - none of which has to do with the subtle science and exact art. And he's still hanging around with Ron and his anti-Slytherin attitude. No one would accuse Ron of ever being a geek.
Definitely not. What does surprise me about Ron, however, is that he’s good at Wizarding Chess. That kind of “intellectual” game requires a certain level of logics and chains of thoughts that we never see Ron use otherwise, as far as I can recall.

Quote
So I definitely think JKR's message seems to be that in order to be "cool" as a hero, you can't be a geek like John Nettleship. And I think that's probably one reason she denies that she ever saw Snape as the true hero. She scoffed at the very idea of it, and seemed taken aback.
Yes, and this does puzzle me too: although I believe JKR is a very “geeky” sort of author, that’s a side of it she doesn’t seem to acknowledge, as if it were too “un-cool” for her and her intended heroes to publicly be seen as “geeks”. Isn’t it telling that in the very last part of the series, when Harry tries to encourage Albus Severus about Slytherin by acknowledging Snape, he does this very silently, as if this is something you just don’t say in public?

Quote from: subtle science
Lupin's whole bit about Snape's being jealous of James--he emphasizes it in PoA, too--makes little sense, after what is actually shown in DH. The idea that Snape was envious of James' Quidditch prowess is absurd: the geeky kid who labored over perfecting potions would care about that? The one thing it is likely that Snape was jealous about would be James' relationship with Lily. Especially seeing as he tries to warn Lily about James' true nature, and she is already buying the Marauders' revisionist history.
Indeed. To me the whole story about Snape, Lily and the Marauders is basically about the “cool guy” winning the girl (who falls for his dubious charms rather than seeing him from a logical point of view) and the “geek”, who tries to point this out, being attacked, humiliated and shunned. In fact, the impression I got from Snape’s memories was that all the talk of Dark Arts and blood supremacy was actually very secondary issues, although fervently used as excuses for why young Severus was so “bad” in the other characters’ eyes. But the reasoning lacks substantial logic; we don’t see the young “geek” practicing Dark Arts or hurting people in other ways and we don’t see him referring to blood supremacy, other than in a single moment of great humiliation, which he later really tries to apologize for.