Current mood:

Flippant

Double post! I'm sure to be banned!
People are starting to come out and voice their negative opinions on the "Last One Out Turn Off the Lights: The What Next Thread" on Fametracker.

In case the FT PTB decide to delete dissenting opinions once and for all, I thought I'd cut and paste some of the best posts and keep them here. I hope that's cool with everyone. I'll add as necessary.

From page 47:

Avocato
Mar 9, 2005 @ 5:59 pm

The reason lots of longtime FTers are noticeably absent from this thread, and the reason that some of them might be lashing out elsewhere, is that FT now is not what it once was.

Many posters aren't looking for a Fametracker 2, if that means a place where almost every female celebrity's thread is a litany of posts about how fat/slutty/famewhorish/ugly she is, and most male celebrity's thread is noticeably absent of those things, unless of course he happens to date someone who's not famous in which case there's discussion of what a fat/slutty/famewhorish/ugly civilian he's dating. The whole concept of "I can say whatever horrible or tasteless or totally false thing I want to because this is Fametracker and that's what we do here!!!" is really puzzling to those that have lurked and posted here for years. It's also insulting, because no, actually, that wasn't what they used to do here. Making miscarriage "jokes"? Un-ironically calling women whores, or seriously accusing them of trapping men by getting pregnant? Engaging in a detailed discussion about how sexy a necrophilia scene was? Calling a female African American celebrity an orangutan, and then self-righteously defending that position, repeatedly? Proudly telling a story about calling someone a "n***er" in a movie theater because he wouldn't give up his seat? And then receiving support from fellow FTers for doing that? Having at least six screen names to open and pollute dozens of threads with useless and humorless posts? Taking over threads with never-ending circular arguments without an ounce of wit or intellect? Being unable to respond to any of this without fear of banning? None of those things used to be "what we do here!!!"

Snark is one thing. Smugness, unrelenting judgment, racism, sexism, and general misanthropy are different, and are things that have unfortunately been cropping up all over the place here as of late. People that tried to combat it were warned and banned, and suddenly those things became "snark." Hopefully the old definition will re-emerge at some of these new sites, if anyone gets past all the bickering and actually sets them up.

Having said that, thanks to the powers-that-be for running the site for all these years. Wing, I'm sure the huge influx of people on the new boards was difficult. Unfortunately, you took out some of your frustration on lots of longtime and popular posters here, and (perhaps as a result) at some point the "haters" were allowed to take over lots of once-great threads and drain the joy almost entirely out of them. Hopefully not having to moderate these forums (the whining pleas for assistance in Troll Patrol and elsewhere right now really make clear how much of a kindergarten this place has become and what a nightmare it must have been to moderate) will free you up to do more of your funny writing. You and Sars are the reason I found MBTV/TWoP and FT, and I will always be a fan of those hilarious Dawson's Creek recaps. Sincere best wishes to you and Glark and the rest of the people that built and made FT (and TWoP) great.

Oh, the irony. I'm bitching and moaning about annoying and humorless posts, yet I go out with one. Well, to all the FTers that made me laugh and think for months as I lurked, and years as I posted - cheers. It was tremendously fun while it lasted.
===

JenniPooPoo
Mar 9, 2005 @ 6:04 pm
Avocato, I love you for that post. You've wiped the nostalgia from my eyes and you are so right. As someone who's been here for over 3 years I have seen a definite change and it hasn't been good. Thanks again.

From page 48:

Beckers
Mar 9, 2005 @ 6:32 pm
All right, I am going waaay out on a limb here, but I have a question I have been dying to ask, but I didn't want to get in trouble/banned so I never have:

I got a warn once (20%), on another ID *cough,* and after that my posting permissions were removed for that ID and I never got them back. I thought that was weird since I would see other people ask about their warnings. Anyone have any idea what was up with that?

Phew, so glad I got that off my chest.

I will miss the forums, but I sort of agree with Avocato. I was here for the first iteration, when the forums were hella slow, but it was a kinder, gentler forum. After the forums came back up there was a huge influx of people and things got sort of out of control. I've been losing interest in some of my favorite threads because I am really done with Jennifer Garner's extreme whoreishness and Reese Witherspoon's man-trapping vagina. So it's been fun while it's lasted, but I can't imagine the time and energy that the mods had to put into this place to keep it as decent as it's been.
===

tremolo
Mar 9, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
>>Have the quality of posters and posts really declined that radically over the past few years? I just began posting here 2 months ago so I'd have no clue. Man, if I love the forum as it stands now, I'd probably have married it on the spot 3 years ago when everything/everyone on the boards was at their peak. I miss out on everything! Damn!<<

It was different. In the last few months I've been aware that something was a little off but I didn't really know what. Of course, the first time around I stayed out of the Celebrity forum for the most part and that section seems a lot different from the rest of the forums. IMO
All this talk is making me wish I could see those old forums again. I have never cried laughing so much in my entire life. Which is not to say that the people here now aren't fabulous for the most part. There's still the wit and the fun. It's just different.

From page 49:

Moodeln
Mar 9, 2005 @ 8:24 pm

As I'm sure any self-respecting denizen of a steamroom could attest, interrupting someone else's public rimjob is very bad form, but time's winged chariot forces me into this particular faux pas, which is to wonder aloud: do you all have any fucking idea why the FT forums are closing?

I'll give you a hint. It doesn't start with m, end with oney. There are all kinds of things that could happen to keep FT going, most of which have been mentioned--other sponsors, letting posters run a fundraising dealio; hell, even passing the mod torch along to someone else more willing to deal with it. None of these things are happening, and Wing is why.

Here's another fun observation: check out the fond farewells in this thread. Now see how many of them are longtime FT vets. I don't intend that as a move to pull rank, just a quiet illustration of what, had the forums continued, I am certain most of you would have discovered: old-schoolers tend to be run out. Sometimes it's by choice, sometimes not; but Wing has had a hate-on for anyone threatening her own star in the galaxy of internet fame for years, and as we stuck around, we all discovered that for ourselves. FT was going strong when *I* first joined three or four years ago, and the regulars then? Are gone. This is the last generation of FTers, and I'm sorry you won't get the schaden pleasure of starting to hate it yourselves.

But maybe I'm not. Part of it is undoubtedly me out on my porch aiming the hose at the kids, bitching about the good old days...but FT has changed. Jus' Jellus has changed from a funny tagline to the entire impetus behind the Jennifer Lopez and Jennifer Garner threads. Misogyny is not only tolerated, it's defended by Wing "Whory" Chun herself. And, to be perfectly blunt, some of the posters just aren't bringing it anymore. FT has made me cry laughing, and that hasn't happened in months.

I don't mean this as a big fuck you to everyone. There are a lot--a lot--of new posters who I love, and who I'm sorry I won't have the chance to get to know better. There are whole career retrospectives of Carrot Top that we'll never have the chance to rehash, and that makes me, the baby Jesus, and the spirit of FameTracker cry. But FT as it was, and as it should have stayed, has been dead for years now, and as much fun as it's been getting drunk and disorderly at the wake, it's also distracted us from realizing the funeral director is the one responsible for putting it in the ground.

So if I can be permitted for the thirty seconds this post will stay up to go out in honest-to-god FameTracker style--one hand on the mouse, a bottle of Jack Daniels on the keyboard, and a middle finger aimed square at the monitor--fuck you, Wing. This was the best thing you ever did, and you were too busy wanting Claire Danes' life to realize it.

It's been real, bitches.

Yours in meaningless internet glory,
Moodeln
===

walshiepoo
Mar 9, 2005 @ 8:33 pm
Thank you to the mods and the people who've written so many hilarious posts. Fametracker has made me laugh my ass off many times over the years, and I've gotten countless awesome music recommendations from here. The old Carrot Top and Ol' Dirty Bastard threads were things of beauty.

But, I've been reading the forums here since around 1999 (when there were the talking Moulin Rouge and Dude, Where's My Car banners), and I agree with Avocato. Especially about the attitudes towards women that have crept in. Over the past few months, a ridiculous number of female celebrities have been called so ugly they're "practically disfigured." In the past, something that extreme would have been reserved for a special level of Fug Elite, if at all, but now it gets used for people like Kate Bosworth, Angelina Jolie, and Jennifer Lopez. I can see finding them ugly, but "practically disfigured"? What the hell is that?

From page 50:

lannie
Mar 9, 2005 @ 9:43 pm
I started posting here in 2000 as lannie628. From about 2000-2002, I posted pretty regularly, and after that, I stopped posting as much. Part of that's due to life getting in the way, but as of late, part of it's due to reasons Avocato and Moodeln mentioned in detail already. Regardless about how I feel about what FT has become, I'll always be thankful for the friends I met through here. I am also thankful that I'll never have to read another Carrot Top thread again, simply because I've never been able to turn away from that...being.
===

blengst
Mar 9, 2005 @ 9:55 pm
I will miss all your snark.

But i had a bad exp with Wing too: I was considered a 20% spammer when i posted a link in the U2 thread to a relevant webpage, even explaining beforehand what i was posting and how it related. I had no idea why as I'd checked everyone else's allowable posts and it followed as such.

I did email her to comment, only realising afterwards that we aren't "allowed" to do that either. After that i only posted once more, getting too paranoid about whether my posts would be acceptable

I loved this website, provided many hours of entertainment and laughter, so many thoughtful and clever observations of people. Thank you all for your clever snark.

However, my concern was sometimes a moderator can get drunk on their own "perceived" power.

Wing: I recognise and respect it's a hard job and i realise you're very talented in some of your writings also, but it's a website to entertain, not to change the world, try and lighten up a bit. Don't be so quick to slam everyone down as an intruder, troll or spammer, i was one of FT's biggest silent supporters.
===

Kaylee
Mar 9, 2005 @ 10:04 pm
>>I did email her to comment, only realising afterwards that we aren't "allowed" to do that either. After that i only posted once more, getting too paranoid about whether my posts would be acceptable<<

Lucky you, asking politely why I got a certain warning got me banned because 'this site is not for [me]'.
===

Young Mr. Grace
Mar 9, 2005 @ 10:13 pm
Everything I need to know I learned at Fametracker:

1) It’s not the length of your denim skirt that makes you a WHORE!

2) Kerry Russell is a controversial and important superstar, the very epicenter of the Hollywood Galaxy of Fame.

3) The name of Michael Vartan, like that of our lord Jesus Christ, is not to be taken in vain.

4) It’s all right to yell “n-----“ in a crowded theatre if you have a BLACK friend.

5) Every Fametracker poster is petite, slim, toned, curvaceous, and managed to retain their figure after childbirth. Who says that people who post obsessively on internet message boards are bitter, unattractive misanthropes?

6) Sex is dirty and wrong. Unless Joaquin Pheonix is having it with his sister. Then it’s hot.

7) The Whore of Babylon had nothing on Jennifer Garner.

8) Yes, you do resemble Celebrity X! I mean, after all, you’re both carbon-based life forms.

9) Guess what, y’all? Star Jones? Is FAT! Ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, I crack myself up.

10) No woman is worthy of her man. Probably why she had to trick him into a relationship.

11) Miscarriages are funny. So is adultery, incest, abortion, and abuse. Quick, alert Lifetime TV! They’ve been marketing those movies all wrong!

12) Ugly people and attractive people shouldn't breed. In fact, to preserve the purity of their pretty genes, they shouldn't even be allowed NEAR ugly people, on the off chance that their ugliness should somehow become airborne.

13) On that note: There is no such thing as an attractive female celebrity.

14) Someone call Dante: The elusive 11th ring of hell has been discovered. It’s reserved for single mothers, childless women, bartenders, and sexually active women.

15) There are no real breasts in Hollywood.

16) If a joke is funny once, it's funny 6,000,000 times. *Gumsnap*You know what I mean?*Gumsnap*

So long and thanks for all the memories, FT!
===

bitpixie
Mar 9, 2005 @ 10:18 pm
>>Lucky you, asking politely why I got a certain warning got me banned because 'this site is not for [me]'.<<

I know a lot of long-time posters who had similar run-ins with Wing. Things that people were genuinely surprised got them in trouble. And banning people who honestly ask what they did wrong even though they probably, in good faith, want to avoid doing it again? What a brilliant idea.

For what it's worth, this uber-mod mentality has been going on for a while now. There is an already existing board where most of the old-timers post and, though I stopped going and so am not positive, I think it's still around. I seem to recall Wing deleted any posts with a link to it, so who knows.

from page 51:

Kent
Mar 9, 2005 @ 10:34 pm

I just want to say word to Avocato. There's a reason I haven't posted in more than a couple of threads, and never even tried to go into the Celebrities forums, in the last few years. This place got ridiculous with the misogyny and misplaced bannings.

I will miss finding out about cool music via the old MixClub and other Music threads. I started posting here around the time that Hissyfit folded, and it was never the same but it was pretty darned good. Years later, not so much.

I also originally came to these sites because of Wing and Sars' writing on Dawson's Wrap. I wish them all the best in their writing careers.
===

Kaylee
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:04 pm

Some things just really ticked me off, this is my old 'warning history':

>>Someone:"LV is popular amongst people who want to show the world how much money they have.
Me:"That's your opinion and not a fact."
Wing:Come on. It's a fact. (->20%)
Situation: I messed up posting a link but unfortunally right after that my computer froze, so I noticed but couldn't edit and fix it.
Wing: Please check the FAQ to learn how to use the link
tags concisely so that I don't have to edit any more of your
posts ("What's that song called?" thread).
After that I emailed her politely explaining, that I do know how to post links but my computer was messed up last night. Meaning I saw that I didn't use the link tags right but it wouldn't let me edit.
And than I got that:This site is not for you. (-> banned)<<

I asked why I got banned but never got a response...it annoyed me to no ends because when I hate something than it's getting treated like a 5-yr old.
===

Enid Coleslaw
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:09 pm

Is anybody else experiencing a kind of perverse glee watching this place self destruct? On March 14th, this place will implode and leave behind an angry and sarcastic black hole in the internet.
===

lwil
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:17 pm

It is somewhat of a relief to now hear of what people didn't like about these boards, since it wasn't allowed to be talked about before.

I agree some of the vigilante banning didn't make sense.

I remember someone innocently disagreeing with an opinion expressed in a linked article Wing wrote in the Johnny Depp thread and she went off on that person. So much for difference of opinion.

I was mostly a lurker, but that was what i disliked the most about this place. The moderators' hyper-sensitivity to any criticism about themselves and the ass-kissing about how great the moderators were by posters hoping to get on their good side.

I, for one, never liked the Fame Audits, or anything like that. A little too "pat myself on the back for how smart and witty I am" for my taste.

Hopefully, the new NatalieM board will work out and it will have all the good of this site and none of the bad.
===

bitpixie
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:28 pm
>>Aww, we've reached the "This place sucks, anyway. Good riddance!" stage of grief already?<<

You're assuming that people haven't been thinking that for a while now. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the negative posts aren't newbies or trolls posting for the sake of trolling, but disgruntled long-time members who are coming out to speak their mind now that the mods seem to have stopped caring. Not only has the posting quality declined, but Wing and Glark haven't always been very evenhanded and I don't doubt there's a lot of built-up frustration in even the most loyal old-timers.
===

merqury
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:54 pm

>>Is anybody else experiencing a kind of perverse glee watching this place self destruct? On March 14th, this place will implode and leave behind an angry and sarcastic black hole in the internet.<<

>>Aww, we've reached the "This place sucks, anyway. Good riddance!" stage of grief already?<<

I'm laughing my fucking ASS off!! This is just hilarious. Wasn't everyone raining blessings on Wing & Glark as recently as 3 pages ago?

Avocato & Moodeln, loving it. I just find it hilarious that suddenly everyone has the balls to backtalk Wing. I remember when I dared to venture into the R. Kelly thread, stating that perhaps (perhaps!) the young lady was also partly to blame (albeit not nearly as much as he), after all, she was willing to nail him, which was (at the very least,) very irresponsible. I faced a lynch mob, everyone being so "outraged"... PC-style. Children are pure as the driven snow. They never lie, and no matter how bad they act with their peers, they're completely innocent when with adults. I never said she was legally accountable in the least, either. But how dare I suggest that although Kelly was a sicko, she wasn't an irresponsible teen herself??!!

I was cool with the banning, but later e-mailed Ms. Chung to let me have a window of time to explain my point clearly, because I didn't want my last posts to be misinterpreted as condoning Kelly's actions, or (worse), excusing them. Did I get my wish? What do you think?

The next day, I got my banning. Why? Because "rape is never right"... How foolish of me to assume it was. The point(s) of this rant?

1.>>When your love, or hate, for someone YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN MET is so rabid that you can't even read AND COMPREHEND a post about that person without putting aside your pre-conceived notion of what you THINK they are going to say, as opposed to what they are ACTUALLY going to say, I don't think you really have room to snark on anyone. Because good snark can only be done if you have the good sense to be objective and open-minded to other views. IMHO.<<

roopoorool, I learned that day never to venture into complete hate-fests like the threads dedicated to Star Jones, Jackson, Kelly, Lopez, and Spears. What's the point when nobody's objective, and you just get banned for disagreeing with the lynch mob (and being judged based on what they THINK you're going to say)?

2. And now, a post of mine from earlier in this thread:

>>Wing: You and I have played our share of "silly e-mail tag" (largely due to my ego, I admit). But you've been, to quote Chief Wiggum, "a super lady." You've done a superb job handling us grown-ass kids, and I tip my hat to you.<<

Funny, 'cause everyone was so far up Wing's ass that I thought maybe I was ego-tripping, questioning the mod's views. I'm a pretty big guy (6'7", 245lbs), and due to a number of misunderstandings, I always make a conscious effort not to come off as a bully. With nobody questioning Wing but me (or so I thought), I convinced myself I was wrong on that one... funny. Thus:

3. Isn't it funny now how everyone's throwing stones at a retreating figure? It's kinda like yelling "no, YOU shut up!!" long after she's left the room. I think the current state of the boards proves that Wing was pretty damn good at modding.

4. Would still have a beer with people like Glark.

5.>>the whining pleas for assistance in Troll Patrol and elsewhere right now really make clear how much of a kindergarten this place has become and what a nightmare it must have been to moderate<<

Love you for that, Avocato. Never once reported a troll, but always went there to get my laugh on. I loved how people wouldn't try sorting situations out more sensibly, but run straight to that thread as soon as someone stuck his/her tongue out and said "Yah!". I know there were some awful trolls, and I definitely give Wing & Glark props for handling them swiftly, but damn!

6. Do I really want to see a new FT? I was definitely behind NatM's plan, but it occured to me today that maybe this was a sign that we should be moving on. Great site, great forum, but it's over. Get over it, hard as it may be.

7. Then again, the evil within will probably win, and I'll join up. Whatever works.

FT, I hardly knew you... but I loved you all over (and over, and over). Congratulations to people like Canyon and Admiral Neck. That's fuckin' awesome.
===

bitpixie
Mar 9, 2005 @ 11:54 pm

Sorry, I honestly don't know where it is anymore. I was invited by a fellow old-time FTer ages ago and she emailed me the link. I visited a couple of times, but got too busy for there or here so it didn't stick in memory. I've since lost the bookmark in a system crash that took my old laptop with it. My point was that the phenomenon of the disgruntled FTer is not a new one.

>>Isn't it funny now how everyone's throwing stones at a retreating figure? It's kinda like yelling "no, YOU shut up!!" long after she's left the room. I think the current state of the boards proves that Wing was pretty damn good at modding.<<

Actually, I don't think the number of upset posts is indicative of the usual posts that are moderated. And I really don't think there would be so many if the boards really had been run fairly. I know that running a good forum is hard--I've tried it and, man, I'm not saying I could have done better. But the FT team aren't the end-all be-all of the forum world that some people are making them out to be.

There were a lot of things wrong with the boards and that's the responisibliity of the mods. Wing in particular has had more than her share of blatantly unprofessional posts and clicked the button for too many unwarranted bannings. Honestly. You shouldn't have to worry about being banned for messing up a link or getting a fact wrong.

From page 52:

MissingMetaphor
Mar 10, 2005 @ 12:44 am
I agree with many of you. I thought I was crazy for not being a person who was all depressed and ass kissy over the perfect FT forums, mods and members. I haven't found the forums particularly fun, witty, intelligent or addicting in a long while. Actually most of the snark had gotten pretty redundent with recycled jokes that just wouldn't go away yet people still "spit all over their keyboards" or "threw up in their mouths a bit" because of. I just didn't get it. (I hate both of those fucking phrases by the way. Seems like I read them a thousands times each visit. Another point of recycled redundancy.)

Why did I still come? It's a nice place to come when I'm bored and have nothing to do, but it wasn't my heaven. I'll live whenever the forums are gone.
===

counsel
Mar 10, 2005 @ 1:11 am

I agree that the quality of posting has degenerated over the course of time. Some of what passes for humor now is nothing more than petty jealous wrapped up in hip lingo and catch-phrases. And the pure herd mentality of so many threads is just sad. And it seems like people have blow past the distinction between making fun or or even ripping on and gone right to full-blown hatred.

I will miss visiting the few threads I attempted to keep up with, but in all, it is time for this place to go the way of the dodo.

And this is clearly the.wankiest.thread.ever.
===

pegannc
Mar 10, 2005 @ 1:27 am
>>I am just so amazed by the "talking about the boards" that is now happening. It's like the teacher finally left the room and the students can at last breathe a sigh of relief and let loose!<<

I was just about to say that but you beat me to the punch! Wouldn't a sociologist have a field day analyzing the deconstruction of this internet community from reading this thread? We went from page after page of sweetly worded thank you's and tearful good byes to throwing rocks at the bums that are kicking us out! Ha! Did Avocato and especially Modelyn posts scorch the page or what? Hot damn! Over the last few pages you've all had me grinning and chuckling. But aside from the solid entertainment value something else interesting has been happening too. Everyone has been sharing more info about favorite threads, links to their own blogs and other interesting internet places to visit. I've opened more new threads and downloaded them for later reading and bookmarked more new places on the www to check out when there is time in the last few days than in many many months of FT. Being a member of the last generation of FT'ers and an infrequent poster, there is much of FT and its forums that I've never explored nor had the time to read. If others have additional suggestions for some don't miss threads that I ought to download, pointers would be appreciated either here or in email.

(FYI: A few pages back someone mentioned problems with the download function cutting off a thread before the end. I noticed that too when downloading to Word format but downloading to HTML format does not seem to have that problem. Hope that's helpful.)

And to NatalieM, don't let the bickering get you down. As an IT professional I heartily concur that corporate sponsorship and professional design is the best bet to handle the bandwidth demand and provide all the functions and features we've come to know and love. I eagerly await the first glimpse of our new home.

And lastly, both the good and bad of this thread as we count down the final days prompts me to suggest that perhaps having an open thread where posters can talk about the forums themselves, one to bitch about the posting rules or conduct of the mods without fear of being banned is not a half bad idea. Just a thought for something to consider for the new place.
===

Beckers
Mar 10, 2005 @ 1:35 am
>>I am just so amazed by the "talking about the boards" that is now happening. It's like the teacher finally left the room and the students can at last breathe a sigh of relief and let loose!<<

I know. It's so freeing! Wheeeeeee!

>>Things that people were genuinely surprised got them in trouble. And banning people who honestly ask what they did wrong even though they probably, in good faith, want to avoid doing it again? What a brilliant idea.<<

Heh. I never asked. However, after being banned by Sars for a difference of opinion (as far as I could tell--"Oh, man. No," wasn't the clearest explanation) the bloom was off the rose. I actually bought some OODT in the first month or so, but after that banning my thought was WTF am I spending money on this stuff for?

And we can all see where that led.

From page 53:

Pippy DeNova
Mar 10, 2005 @ 2:17 am
In retrospect, realize my other post sounded a bit ... daisies and sunshine. And before I say what I want to say, I again want to encourage NatalieM in her endeavor because it could potentially be pretty damn awesome. But keep in mind what's happening here and now. It's ok to be a tough mod, as long as you are fair, encourage community and wit, and discourage stupidity and baseless misanthropy.

But I hate to break it to those of you who think that Fametracker is going out on a high note -- sorry kiddies, it jumped the shark a long time ago and is now sending postcards to Jaws whilst sipping Mai Tais on the beach.

As for Wing ... she's taken no small pleasure in stomping on the very people who made this site once great. So Wing, take a note here: as good as they have been (not consistantly so, however) the main attraction at FT has never been the articles. People came here for the forums. Once you ruined that, you ruined your site. And the spite and bitterness that you injected into your mod style is sprewing forth tenfold in the final days of the forums. You set the tone for it, so congratulations.

Having said that, I hope you get an opportunity to clear your head of all of this and figure out what went wrong. I hope you can refresh and rejuvinate and figure out why you loved this stuff so much in the first place. Re-read a few of your first DC recaps, perhaps? Because you have been, and you could be again, pretty incredible. After all, you did create this once-awesome site. But as for now? Just look around.

From page 54:

Renny Sue
Mar 10, 2005 @ 7:41 am
This thread is classic. As someone who was at TWOP when it was cool, and migrated here (and it was never as cool as MBTV in its glory days) this thread has me laughing. From the kicking out of all the people who made MBTV cool, to the closing of OTB and to the hysterical time when Glark actully missed his wife's birthday party because people were calling Wing a cunt on the boards. Memories.

I keep thinking I might be sad because I'm taking such pleasure in this, but then I remember back to how much Wing seems to get off on bossing people around and I laugh hysterically.
===

pinklady
Mar 10, 2005 @ 8:18 am
>>Is anybody else experiencing a kind of perverse glee watching this place self destruct? On March 14th, this place will implode and leave behind an angry and sarcastic black hole in the internet.<<

Not so much before, but after backreading the last 15 pages or so of this thread? YES.
===

ladyboy
Mar 10, 2005 @ 8:20 am
This thread IS really funny. Keep bitching, please, so I can avoid work for at least a few more days.

Now that we can finally talk about the boards, I often found the mods contradictory - on one thread, smacking down a poster for a comment, on another thread, posting a similar sentiment themselves. It came across as a "Do as I say, not as I do" approach, which irritates me wherever it comes from (mods, boss, etc.). Also, the way posters would fall over themselves to fawn over a comment by Wing pissed me off. "Word, Wing!" No need to kiss ass, people, save it for somewhere that it can do you some good in your life, like your career.

The celeb threads (some at least) had been going to hell in a handbasket of late. I'd just skim over the overly lengthy, rebutting-every-point-disagreed-with type of posts and get to the good stuff - in particular the Wacko thread - because otherwise how would I follow the trial? In bland newspaper reporting? No thanks. I require snarktastic commentary on celebrity news.

I've been on since 99 and, Skyblade, I feel your invisibility. In fact, I often thought people met up at the FTCons and discussed ways to ignore me on the boards more effectively. No, the paranoia is under control these days - I know these boards being closed down was the answer to that.

I'm wondering if someone in the media will write an article about the closing of the FT boards - replete with the nosedive in love for the mods on this thread. It would be very interesting if it included background info that we're not currently privy to.

From page 55:

Naffy
Mar 10, 2005 @ 9:16 am
From back a few pages, but this thread is going like gangbusters anyway:

>>I think the current state of the boards proves that Wing was pretty damn good at modding.<<

I think just the opposite. I think that if this was a forum with the same number of intelligent and reasonable posters as before, and a forum where all the members felt the modding was fair and a good thing for everyone, and hadn't become so enraged by capricious and bitchy iron-fisted "modding," things wouldn't degenerate. (And hell, I fully take responsibility for letting off a little steam.) This forum should have been a fun place to have awesome discussions, and instead it became a pressure cooker for those of us who stuck around for any length of time. The current state of the boards doesn't show anything except how frustrated everyone has been with shitty management.
===

bstewart
Mar 10, 2005 @ 9:56 am
Seriously, OriginalRay. Glark? Shut these boards down, like, now. How fucking dare you ungrateful assholes come into someone's online home, denigrate their decisions and piss on their carpet, after enjoying their free hospitality for so long?

you are trotting out petty grievances that really don't deserve to be dignified with comment. Hopefully all of you who found the moderators not to your liking will start your own forum and leave the rest of us alone.
===

Pippy DeNova
Mar 10, 2005 @ 10:20 am
bstewart, get the hell over yourself. Fine -- it's Wing's site. But if you can't recognize that she's been rude and has let things go to hell as of late, you're fucking blind. I agree that certain things -- the "c" word, for instance -- are way are hell over the line. But if Wing uses this free site to be rude to the people who actually provided her with the traffic that supported the advertising that made the site run as long as it has, then don't be so fucking surprised that's gotten this ugly.

From page 56:

Pippy DeNova
Mar 10, 2005 @ 10:32 am
>>Wing, Glark, and Funkle put this whole thing together, and charged nothing for it, so all of you could have a place to snark on celebrities to your hearts content, and for this many of you are trotting out petty grievances that really don't deserve to be dignified with comment. Hopefully all of you who found the moderators not to your liking will start your own forum and leave the rest of us alone.<<

FatElvis, I appreciate your thoughtful and level-headed post. However, the issue isn't only about Wing being rude. It's also about how she's allowed both blatent and subtle forms of racism, misogyny, homophobia and general misanthropy (which is an entirely different thing than "snark") to spread across these boards in the past year. We've had posts calling women who wear short skirts while selling candy bars whores, justifying using the "n"-word in a crowded theater and labeling a woman a golddigger because she was a bartender dating a famous actor. Wing's allowed it to continue, brushed off reports complaining about it, and in one case, participated in the conversation. That level of discourse isn't snark and it isn't criticism. It's outright stupidity. I for one am glad she's getting called out for allowing to continue and flourish.

From page 57:

Pippy DeNova
Mar 10, 2005 @ 11:37 am
>>You cannot have a board free of what others are calling racism, misogyny, and simple meanness. That is just human nature. But these boards kept it down wonderfully. Picking out specific single incedences when you felt that the mods weren't doing their jobs well is a good example of the simple meanness that I just mentioned.<<

If Wing had time to ban and/or warn people for not formatting tags correctly, she could have had time to smack down the bullshit I mentioned. And give me a sec to process what you're saying: according to what you're saying, it's totally cool to allow misogyny, etc. to exist on a board becuase hey! It's human nature! But to point it out and call a mod on it is being "mean"?

Get some perspective.
===

Codgette
Mar 10, 2005 @ 11:39 am
My weirdest warning? When I only had one warning, but my box said 60% - so I posted asking whether there were other warnings that I just wasn't seeing. I then got another warning for asking about my warnings.

Topic? I didn't mind Wing - actually I kind of liked her. In a previous life, I was stuck moderating a message board - it was tiny compared to this and even w/ that it was the most aggravating, time consuming thing to look after - I can't begin to imagine what it was like trying to keep a handle on this board. If Wing's been doing this for over five years, I'm surprised she's a civil as she is.

Anyway...thanks for all your work, MFF, Glark, and Wing. I really liked this board and enjoyed coming
===

Iron Chef
Mar 10, 2005 @ 11:52 am
>>But this whole thing reeks of cowardice. Not a one of you had the balls to insult Wing like this before.<<

Plenty of us have had the balls to try to talk to "insult" Wing in the past - in PRIVATE, as the rules clearly state - and we've got the bans/warning/new FT names to prove it, thanks. Most of us just don't BOTHER.

If the mods don't respect their own board enough to moderate it in its final days, I (think I) understand why the posters don't respect the boards enough to follow the rules. I'd like to be able to enjoy FT in its last week or so, but that's not going to be possible - if the mods don't care, why should the posters care? And I think it's very unfair to say "without the iron fist of the mods, the board is in chaos!" because that's just not true. The more ACCURATE description is "with NO ONE around here enforcing rules, the board is in chaos". You can strike a balance if you want to.

>>Is anybody else experiencing a kind of perverse glee watching this place self destruct?<<

Nope. You're not.

From page 58:

Peggy Pepper
Mar 10, 2005 @ 12:30 pm
One of my friends who used to post on here once questioned Wing in a civil manner on something that she (and I) thought was a bit questionable on the forums (Wing’s closing down a thread with insults and cursing towards the posters). My friend just asked if moderators were supposed to follow the FAQs of forum etiquette. She was not asking in a rude or mean way, was frankly just curious. Bam- no response from her- just banned from the forums. She had never had a warning before.

I understand that there is a lot of hard work that went into these forums and I greatly appreciate that. But at the same time, there is a difference imo between being strict in moderation (which I like because it does help prevent misogyny, racism, etc. on the boards) from having a more totalitarian system where people can not have legitimate questions or concerns without being banned and the rules of etiquette are not evenly enforced.

And I don’t view the voicing of these concerns in this thread as a “We Hate Wing” pissing on her carpet party. Rather, I think it is a good place to bring up points of concern about strict versus a more totalitarian and uneven form of moderation before the next wave of forums opens. And I think that many people who do voice concerns about some of the moderation issues appreciate that it must be a tiring and frustrating job to moderate such a large forum.

A lot of people may question the moderations style, while still greatly respecting the mods, because they do love and care for the forum.

I have greatly enjoyed Fametracker. But I still think that it is okay for posters to be able to voice some legitimate concerns and still use the forums without it being a whole “love it or leave it” mentality.

Thanks to all who have posted and the mods. It's been fun!
===

scary robot
Mar 10, 2005 @ 12:42 pm
Since we're all sharing stories of why the love is gone, here's mine:

I was the one who reported Wing to Wing in the troll patrol. She had used the word "whore" to describe an (albeit fictional) woman who had slept with two people. I reported in troll patrol that I found that an odd development, seeing as so many forums had closed and people banned for simliar offenses.

The next day, I got a warning. For asking an innocent question in the Everything You Wanted to Know thread - she said I was being a stalker.

Never posted much after that, didn't see the point. I felt like I had a big ole target on my backside and Wing was just waiting to take me down.

Moderating is a tough job, I'll give her that, but she was waaaay off base with a lot of this stuff.

From page 59 :

Iron Chef
Mar 10, 2005 @ 1:16 pm
>>I think many people have legitimate reasons for being upset with the mods (though Wing is obviously taking the brunt of the criticism for one reason or another that people have mentioned), and I'm glad we're now allowed to vent about what we disliked/hated about the moderation of the boardMM

I think a "therapy" thread would've gone over well. Something that could've been allowed say, for the first three days of every two months. Because a LOT of these so-called rants are very, very legitimate - and had the mods been willing to listen to them, FT may have been much higher quality for much longer. Something as simple as "can we call someone a cunt?" is a question that can't even get answered here!

As for why Wing is taking the brunt, I think it's because Wing was the most vocal. To whom much is given, much is expected.

>>I was cool with the banning, but later e-mailed Ms. Chung to let me have a window of time to explain my point clearly, because I didn't want my last posts to be misinterpreted as condoning Kelly's actions, or (worse), excusing them.<<

I got a similar warning (banning?) because I said something about how I admired Fantasia for having her child as opposed to having an abortion. Wing misread that as me saying that abortion is evil, mmkay? even though I am 100% prochoice and GREATLY resented being labeled as anything but. Honestly, folks. A simple "what did you mean by that?" can really alleviate that kind of shit.

From page 61:

Naffy
Mar 10, 2005 @ 2:15 pm
>>Glark? Shut these boards down, like, now. How fucking dare you ungrateful assholes come into someone's online home, denigrate their decisions and piss on their carpet, after enjoying their free hospitality for so long?<<

Bitch, please. Fucking public forums are not the home of the moderators. Good lord. What, you want everyone to send thank-you cards to the webmasters of every website they visit? You think just because someone's doing something to make money noone can criticize their shoddy actions? Good christ, man, welcome to the real world.

From page 62:

BlancheDeveraux
I think that there have been some very well voiced complaints in this thread that were not shrieky or whiney.

Some people are just taking the time to voice somethings that have bothered them. Not, imo, to rant for the sake of ranting, but more in the form of constructive criticism.

Yes- we are sad that the forums are closing but maybe some people are trying to take stock and see what lessons can be learned.

Iron Chef, Avacato and others, I have enjoyed reading your well thought out posts on this thread.

From page 63:

Iron Chef
Mar 10, 2005 @ 3:21 pm
>>Even if you did get banned and you thought it was undeserved, if you re-registered and returned, you were probably more circumspect in your posts.<<

If by "circumspect" you mean "quiet", then you have a point, yeah. If by "circumspect" you mean "too afraid to report a troll for fear that you would be warned/banned as well", then certainly.

And one of the reasons why we're discussing this in length, I think, is so that the mods of the future (for wherever we go) will learn from the mistakes made in the past. Because I don't give a shit WHAT Wing and Company may think...MISTAKES. WERE. MADE. One of which? Not listening to your audience. If you provide a service for people but don't even listen to the concerns of the people (or only listen to the ones that you feel are worthy enough of your time and go as far as to PUNISH the ones with "sillier" little trifles), that's not a good thing.
===

Iron Chef
Mar 10, 2005 @ 4:25 pm
>>It's as though Wing, Glark, and MMF wanted to give us all a final objective lesson in how bad the boards would be _without_ their constant moderation. Whee, enless infighting! It's just like every other board on the net!<<

Which is complete bullshit, solely because if say, three other people had mod privileges, the board would probably run smoothly, still. That's like locking somebody outside of the house and saying, "Try to feed yourselves now!" Well d'uh...you have my keys. Give me my keys, and I'll enter the house and cook and eat just fine without you. If the objective of this little exercise is to see What FT Would Be Like w/o the Benevolent Mods, then it's missing the point entirely.

From page 64:

Matinee
Mar 10, 2005 @ 5:11 pm
I'm staying out of the mods bad/posters bad/everyone bad that has begun but thought I'd post this, which I've been waiting for since this thread started to degenerate.... we've hit Fandom Wank.

From page 65:

Falafeloloofah
Mar 10, 2005 @ 6:40 pm
I don't like the tone of any of your thoughts. You're all banned!
Banned!!! I tell you, banned!! Unless you buy a tote bag. And a t-shirt.
Somebody might come to your house and scrape all the stickers off your refrigerator! And take a steaming whiz on your James Vanderbeek posters!!

Banned!!! Banned!! In fact, all the phone lines to your house will be cut!
Now, go to the naughty stool! Bad posters, bad!!!
===

MissingMetaphor
Mar 10, 2005 @ 7:19 pm
Speaking of the OODTs (that they sold to run this "free" site), was I the only one who felt that they totally were not worth 5 or more dollars? I mean I could've whipped up half of them with a sheet of paper and some crayons or and the other half with my graphics processer. OODT indeed. If that were the route they were going I think they could have at least offered something a little more worth the money. It may have even gone better.

That said I never had anything against the moderators and I was never afraid of them. If I got banned I figured so what? It's just an online community, there are many more different ways to spend my time if one drops out. No offense to any of you, but I think it's actually kinda silly to be intimidate or afraid of people over the internet. I mean, what is the worst that Wing could've done to you? Say "Fuck off, you can't come back to my site. Meh-meh-nany-nany!!" Ouchies!!! :o)
===

Snapper
Mar 10, 2005 @ 8:04 pm
I've had fun here, and owe many, many laughs to FT. And, believe it or not, I actually have spit out my coffee a few times due to FT posts.

As of late, though, this place is a mere shadow of what it once was: that which was once fun and snarky, interesting and smart has become nasty and ugly, racist and homophobic. Somewhere along the line the tone of FT shifted.The spirit of "agreeing to disagree" turned into an atmosphere of "if you're not for us, you're against us". This is sad, but it points to why it's high time this old workhorse be put down, already.

Y'all who have provided me with big, heartfelt laughs and truly thought-provoking moments over the last 6 years or so...the ones who understand why there would never have been a Kurt Cobain without Pete Townshend....the ones who made my stomach ache with their wise-ass remarks about how the advertising industry would have us believe that 8-year-old boys are star-struck by the appearence of Robert Loggia.... know who you are.

See when I see you.

From page 66:

radguurl
Mar 10, 2005 @ 8:11 pm
Well, fuck. Y’all, we finally done grown up and made it onto Fandom Wank. What a way to go out gracefully.

Funny how the flames of self-destruction feel so damn scorching from this side of the monitor.
===

DonnaMGraduates
Mar 10, 2005 @ 9:24 pm
That fanwank link is seriously hilarious. Fucking priceless, in fact.

I'm going to be away from my computer for most of the rest of the evening, and I have a strange suspicion that when I wake up tomorrow the forums will be gone. So I have two final things to say in the event that this is my last post.

First off - and I know he'll never see this but I have to get it off my chest anyway - bstewart: get over yourself, you self-righteous arrogant prick. You've had a lot of gay sex in bathclubs. Good for you, although that a) is nothing to be proud of, and b) doesn't qualify you to define homosexuality. You're a jackass. Shut up.

And finally, so long and thanks for all the fish.

From page 67:

ladyboy
Mar 10, 2005 @ 9:29 pm
Bstewart was such a pompous arse. IS, as I suppose he's still alive, and probably over at Datalounge trying to impress someone with a B-list sexual encounter.

From page 68:

radguurl
Yeah, I’m one of the ones who started here back in ‘99 as well, before MBTV became TWoP, when it would take a year and day for threads to refresh, and before the Great Forum Blackout of ’04. Luckily I was able to keep the same posting name, but unlike back in the old days, I’ve never broke 500 posts due to my pulling back to lurkdom in order to not bring down the fiery wrath of Wing. That sort of attitude started when I got warned for improperly linking a page (two of the words did not relate to the actual page). So I emailed Wing to let her know I was sorry and that I had fixed the link. Of course my warning went from 20% to 40%. Yeah, I was pissed and annoyed, but like the pussy I am, I went back with my tail between my legs and kept my mouth shut just to hold onto my precious posting privileges. The power of the snark is that. Damn. Strong. And it’s all the result of the witty posts from the intelligent posters on these threads, not the Mods.

To Iron Chef, Avacato and the rest of you sane people who’ve voiced the same concerns about the demise of these forums in a normal, non-incendiary manner, I give you mad props. It’s that spirit of Fametracker I hope carries over to other places we decide wander, not the Nazi, ass-kicking super-modding that started to break out after the Great Forum Blackout.

ETA: The forums are now down. Good thing I did shitloads of cutting and pasting. W00t!

Also, the loverly cleolinda saved as much as she could and posted it here. Thanks!