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sandglass ([info]sandglass) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-04-10 18:36:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Reported to me by a friend.
Over on the Lemmasoft forums, a review post is made for a new game. All is mostly well, until Deji posts this comment:

Having gays, lesbians, a bitch, a girl that kills herself and a girl that wants to seduce a guy that could be his father for a cast... I couldn't find a place to relate to at all D: I've always dealt with pretty average/normal people, so everything was kind of weird >>;

KinouGames (who make inclusive games in the same genre) points out that, no, that's offensive. And you don't need to be clairvoyant to imagine where it goes from there.

Here are some notable responses for you to enjoy:
Mirage: ^ Hey, the way you said "weird" is not normal is pretty offensive. I feel I'm weird, but I positively proud that I'm one, and I like to think being weird is normal. Not normal as in "society's expected", but normal as in perfectly natural. Common sense is the least common thing the world, ya know.
Am I over-reacting? Not much different than you, in my opinion.


Deji again: Maybe it's a cultural (and maybe even generational- in the context of my country, at least) thing, because over here people don't get bullied for being minorities or being different. Also, usually people don't stand out much until college, either (having dull ugly obligatory uniforms and dress code helps). And in college it's more like "Oh, they're so different :O", and if you happen to still be part of the mass of people that don't stand out, you may decide not to approach them if you get scared of them, or you're really not into what they talk about all the time. And that's all.
Actually, bullying started to get in schools here because of all the american tv shows or movies that pictured it and kids getting online and learning about this stuff.

(Deji is from Chile.)

Deji in a later post: For the record, I have *nothing* against people that's different from me. If you felt offended because you're gay and I mentioned I can't relate to gays, let me tell you I have a gay friend that I barely get to interact with, sadly, and I defend her fiercely against anybody that may give me weird looks about her or tell me "That girl is just... wrong" or that says that she's sick or ill or is mentally screwed or whatever.

Pondrthis: I've been close friends with three homosexuals in my day, two gay guys and one lesbian. They never bothered me because they weren't all hung up on political correctness, and I feel like I was a good friend to them.

Aurocyanide: I think everyone should respect everyone else's opinions. It is your right to have any opinion you wish as long as you do not try to force it upon others. If people find your opinion offensive, then that is their right, but you still have the right to have that opinion. We should preach TOLERANCE. This does not mean everyone has to have the same opinion, it just means you have to accept their right to have it.

AND that's just a small sample!

The real problem comes in when the mod decides to split the argument from the original topic, and imposes a 12-hour posting rule. That is, each person can only post to the thread once per 12 hours. KinouGames asked privately that the 12 hour rule either be removed, or applied to the other side of the equation, to any thread that was reported as insulting to marginalized people. The mod refused, insisting on only applying it to a discussion if the opposing side had the nerve to step in. KinouGames leaves the forum. But it doesn't end there!

They make a post to their blog explaining why they left, and reiterating their support of inclusiveness. All would be well and good, except a number of people from Lemmasoft forums aren't done arguing.

Komi Y. Tsuku commented to the previous thread, and is a self-identified libertarian. His first comment begins, "Truthfully, I've found the tone and attitude of your comments and blog to be much more offensive." Bra-vo. He promptly gets dogpiled. Then comes back. Then gets dogpiled again. And makes enemies of potential buyers. It's pretty beautiful. He apologizes very poorly, saying, "I honestly am sorry that you felt this way and wish to bash my beliefs." He seems to have left...for now!

ETA: The Lemmasoft homophobes/homophobe apologists have found Kinougames' blog post! And the trolling in general continues.

One odd quote:
Lizzy: I'm okay with GLBT, incest and go by a you-do-what-you-do motto.

Deji is back to "apologize" and White Women's Tears everywhere.

A lot of people focus on the word "Weird" and miss the point of the original complaint (and the real complaint, which is even more removed!).

"Temp" shows up on the blog and is quickly identified as Py'Tom, the mod Kinougames asked about making the 12-hour rule apply to all or no bigotry-related posts, and accuses Kinou of continually attacking Deji after she'd apologized. And accuses Kinou of "Abusing gender issues to score free hits against friendly people on the internet, then crying when no one pities me for my poorly written real life drama stories, and calls me out on my bluff."

Then he makes a comment with the entirety of the N-word, which Kinou reposts in an edited version. I guess he wanted to make sure no one gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was just doing his mod-job.


(Post a new comment)


[info]rosehiptea
2011-04-11 03:11 am UTC (link)
over here people don't get bullied for being minorities or being different

Seriously? Somehow I doubt that that is true about any place on earth.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lilychan
2011-04-11 04:23 am UTC (link)
I'd like to know where that place is so I can move there. :\

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]full_metal_ox
2011-04-12 12:49 am UTC (link)
There's always Poland--at least according to Shyshynishallow.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lilychan
2011-04-12 04:42 am UTC (link)
Oh, I remember that. DX

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2011-04-12 07:38 pm UTC (link)
I grew up in a place "without racism": mid/southern Oregon, where I never even saw a non-white kid until middle school. (We had one in the entire class/grade.)

As you might imagine, my perspective changed a bit when we moved to college town Eugene.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]vzg
2011-04-18 10:12 pm UTC (link)
And she follows it up with saying that she'd defend her gay friend from other people. Direct incongruity right there.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chienne
2011-04-11 03:23 am UTC (link)
Actually, bullying started to get in schools here because of all the american tv shows or movies that pictured it and kids getting online and learning about this stuff.

For some reason, I find that very hard to believe.

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[info]veneotaqueen
2011-04-11 03:48 am UTC (link)
Correction: they only learn a name for the phenomena after they began to watch american media who recognize and pointed out the theme. Before that, it was "kids just being kids", or "that crazy gringo bad guy stereotypes".

Excuse me while I rage privately.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]luxshine
2011-04-11 04:07 pm UTC (link)
God, yes. I hate that.

I'm an english teacher, and one of the hardest words to teach to my *adult* students is Bullying just because we don't have a similar word in spanish. The Phenomena, they understand perfectly (And after a bit more of explanation, they *get* it's not "kids just being kids"), but the actual word is just out of reach.

I was bullied for years in Elementary School, and most of my classmates only watched Chiquilladas and Soap Operas. Don't tell me that bullying doesn't exist in latinoamerica.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kattahj
2011-04-12 10:16 pm UTC (link)
Although one downside to having a word like bullying (or mobbning, in Swedish) is that it can sometimes make school staff create "anti-bullying plans" without ever recognizing the phenomenon as violence and harrassment. As if such things perpetrated by kids is an entirely different ballpark somehow. So in a warped kind of way it becomes "kids being kids" all over again.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]luxshine
2011-04-13 05:02 am UTC (link)
That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, most people don't recognize the violence and harrassment bullying victims endure, so at the end, it all goes back to "Kids being kids" and... yikes. It's one of those endless vicious cycles that I really hate.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]oddplaces
2011-04-20 03:49 am UTC (link)
I think this is why a lot of people are dismissive of "bullies" and tend to respond along the lines of, "Well, just ignore them; they're just jealous/sad/have a bad home life and they'll find something more entertaining to do after a while". I suspect most people regard "bullying" as sort of a "kid word", whereas "harassment" is an adult word; notably, it's even used as shorthand for sexual harassment, and that's pretty much defined as a grown-up thing: if you act that way toward a kid, it's "molestation", and the connotations are completely different.

I was one of those people until not too many years ago -- to me, "bullying" was what the kids at school did to me, i.e. making fun of me for reading too much or acting horrified because I wore/did/brought something I thought was cool and they thought was stupid. Basically, I was picked on, and that was my mental image for "bullying" -- which meant I tended to dismiss those who got up in arms about it as overreacting.

...All of which is my longwinded way of saying I think you've got a significant point, there -- sometimes having a separate word for a problem just because kids are involved can carry the suggestion that the problem is itself childish, and therefore not something adults need to worry about.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]oddplaces
2011-04-20 03:35 am UTC (link)
That's very interesting; I've never thought about translation difficulties for bullying before, possibly because I'm not much involved with kids, but on the other hand I have definitely had the frustration of trying to find a word for [Negative Behaviour X] and not finding one!

(Psst-- "phenomenon" is the singular. "Phenomena" is plural.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]luxshine
2011-04-20 04:05 am UTC (link)
There are some words that are really hard to translate, as well as some concepts. But Bullying is *my* personal pet peeve. Most of my students have children of their own, so the fact that they don't recognize it as bullying sort of annoys me.

(And, thanks.. I do have a lot of problem with plural and singular forms for latin-based words in english)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tehrin
2011-04-11 06:58 am UTC (link)
But, chienne, no one has ever in history oppressed or killed other people based them being a member of a minority until Americans came along. I read that in a history book once.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kylenne
2011-04-13 11:26 am UTC (link)
I swear to Christ this general sentiment (and the related "prejudice/bullying/isms doesn't exist in [Non-US country]" nonsense) needs to be a goddamn bingo square or Jurisimprudence law at this point. Bonus points for the asshole in question derailing with "you/the internet/fandom is just biased against non-US countries!" when someone points out how spurious the statement is.

We could call it Borat's Law or something.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]veneotaqueen
2011-04-11 03:42 am UTC (link)
Ok, I know that Deji. I had her in my DA list of followed since she was in the Digimon/DiGi-charat fandom. I rarely read her posts sice she doesn't post that much there, but she seems to be a piece of work here.
No that the rest are much better, but gosh!

(Reply to this)


[info]lilychan
2011-04-11 04:22 am UTC (link)
I have a feeling Komi Y. Tsuku is someone from Lemma.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lilychan
2011-04-11 04:26 am UTC (link)
Oh duh, they are. Either way, holy crap. :|

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rowsdower
2011-04-11 05:19 am UTC (link)
because over here people don't get bullied for being minorities or being different.

Oh, hey, I know that country! It spans the entire globe and is populated exclusively by people who are neither targeted by bullies nor associate with their victims.

Seriously, I have heard this "BUT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN MY COUNTRY/STATE/PROVINCE/UNDERGROUND CITY OF MOLE-PEOPLE" so frequently, and almost always someone else from said location pops up to sound the bullshit klaxon. Usually the poster in question was just never bullied and didn't care to even notice those that were.

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[info]ekaterinv
2011-04-11 05:39 am UTC (link)
UNDERGROUND CITY OF MOLE-PEOPLE

That made me laugh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

With apologies to "South Park"
[info]spawn_of_kong
2011-04-13 04:22 pm UTC (link)
Mole-people,
Mole-people,
Mole-people,
Mole-people,
Blind like moles, talk like people!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chikane
2011-04-11 02:05 pm UTC (link)
Usually the poster in question was just never bullied and didn't care to even notice those that were.

That's the thing. Didn't happen to them, so who cares?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-04-11 05:39 am UTC (link)
I think everyone should respect everyone else's opinions.

*flails* I HATE THIS SO MUCH. When someone else has an opinion that another human being is am somehow subhuman, shouldn't have rights, can't be related to because they don't fit into some box, etc., that is not an opinion that deserves any respect.

Also, "a bitch"? WTF does that even mean in this context?

I have a gay friend

*headdesk*

(Reply to this)


[info]gertie_flirty
2011-04-11 06:37 am UTC (link)
I've been close friends with three homosexuals

Wow! Three whole homosexuals! You must be an expert on the subject now! Tell me, please, what are your thoughts on yaoi?

/hopefully obvious sarcasm

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[info]female_fanboy
2011-04-14 08:40 am UTC (link)
It's true, ya' know. I mean, if having a gay friend means you're socially conscious and progressive, having three is practically the equivalent of a Ph.D in sociology.

Unless you actually are gay. Then you're just taking things too personally, and your personal experiences don't count because you're viewing the situation irrationally... Hey, don't look at me like that, I'm just stating the facts. God, there you go getting offended again. Why do have to be so oversensitive?

(Me? Bitter gay girl? Now where would you get that idea...)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]capricorn_baos
2011-04-11 01:07 pm UTC (link)
"Maybe it's a cultural (and maybe even generational- in the context of my country, at least) thing, because over here people don't get bullied for being minorities or being different."

As a Chilean all I can do is wonder if she happens to live in a bubble. Yes, we only recently adopted the term "bullying", but that it started to happen only recently? HAH. And we don't bully minorities? Really? I'm sure Peruvian and Bolivian immigrants would strongly disagree.

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[info]chikane
2011-04-11 02:03 pm UTC (link)
"
Aurocyanide: I think everyone should respect everyone else's opinions."


Ah, yes. Respecting (insert minority here) is not required, but respecting (hurtful and damaging opinion) is.

I love how a (hurtful and damaging opinion) evidently has more value than, you know, (minority) people in general.

What douchebags the Lemmasoft forum people are

Only good thing: The characters from Kinougames actually sound moderately interesting. May have something new&shiny to check out!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ninwhore
2011-04-11 04:41 pm UTC (link)
IA with that last sentence. Installing it now actually.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2011-04-11 05:28 pm UTC (link)
I downloaded some games too! Not usually into visual novels but I figured I'd give them another try.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]agent_hyatt
2011-04-11 07:09 pm UTC (link)
Checking out the links, it seems that the game being reviewed isn't by Kinougames, which hasn't released anything yet. Sadface; I wanted to support their stance by buying from them, but they don't have anything to order yet and I'm not sure if I'll remember about it when they are taking pre-orders!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-04-11 11:02 pm UTC (link)
They're about six weeks from their first game. Which I am dying for.

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[info]chikane
2011-04-11 11:38 pm UTC (link)
I wanted to support their stance by buying from them

Exactly why I checked them out, actually

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[info]agent_hyatt
2011-04-11 07:11 pm UTC (link)
The Kinougames blog post is amazing and the thread starts off great, but the sockpuppets have appeared en masse and taken over the tail end.

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[info]varkias
2011-04-12 07:51 pm UTC (link)
The forum thread has been deleted - not only the wank thread that was split into a different topic and moved, but the original topic where Deji made the comment in the first place. That seems like overkill in a big way, and someone over at Kinou's blog noted in the comments:

Coincidence? said...

It seeeeeeems the thread in question disappeared sometime after Huhanon above asked for clarification on where Kinou was rude.

How ODD. If Kinou was so rude, flaming everyone, saying things in a bad way to the point where Komi felt he needed to throw the tone argument everywhere, why wouldn't you want to keep this proof alive? Why would you delete the hard evidence that your mod was only doing his modly duty to prevent the impending flame war? Why would you delete the exact wording that Kinou used to repeatedly and viciously attack a friendly, innocent girl who just made an innocent comment?

Why would you delete it after being specifically asked where the rudeness is?

Coincidence? I think not.

Too little too late, Lemma, the internet never forgets, and PyTom's extraordinary douchebaggery all over this blog will ensure they don't forget for a long time.
April 13, 2011 2:11 AM

(Reply to this)


[info]tachikoma01
2011-04-12 08:49 pm UTC (link)
One of these days, I'm going to build an iPhone/blackberry app called "My ethnic friend."

Got into an argument with a pesky member of a minority who doesn't think the way they should? Just log into "My ethnic friend!" Enter the ethnicity or sexual orientation you need and the world view that agrees with yours. Within 24 hours, we guarantee a REAL ETHNIC/SPECIFICALLY SEXUALLY ORIENTED PERSON will friend you on twitter, facebook, livejournal, myspace, whatever you need. Then your REAL ETHNIC/SPECIFIC SEXUALLY ORIENTED FRIEND will go wherever your argument is happening and tell that other pesky minority to shut up. And because they're your REAL ETHNIC/SPECIFIC SEXUALLY ORIENTED FRIEND, that other pesky minority will have no choice but to admit they have been pizz-owned. Remember, you're a person in the majority who has a friend in the minority who agrees with you. This means your opinion is not only 100% more valid than that pesky minority, but 300% MORE VALID!

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[info]squeakytoy
2011-04-13 02:35 am UTC (link)
I'm kinda scared that a part of me thinks you could actually make money from that.

My faith in humanity, it is broken!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]franzen
2011-04-13 07:48 am UTC (link)
Let me know when the IPO is.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kylenne
2011-04-13 11:30 am UTC (link)
Someone already beat you to it, albeit several years ago.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bcaluroso
2011-04-23 10:40 am UTC (link)
Every time I hear about a wanker from Chile, I think it's SVmaria. I know, intellectually, that not even the most dedicated sockpuppeteer could be an entire country*, but I think my time in the Smallville fandom scarred my mind.


*That sounds like the premise of a horror movie

(Reply to this)


 
   
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