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Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

sandglass
2011-04-17 12:50 am UTC (link)

I understand why the top students in America study physics, chemistry, calculus and classic literature. The kids in this brainy group are the future professors, scientists, thinkers and engineers who will propel civilization forward. But why do we make B students sit through these same classes? That's like trying to train your cat to do your taxes—a waste of time and money. Wouldn't it make more sense to teach B students something useful, like entrepreneurship?

Uh, since when did being a B student mean stupid and/or not fit for rigorous studies? Depending on the grading scheme, B is where you end up if you're competent and know the material, but don't have a perfect polish.

I'm a B student. I study classical literature. Did I just pop out of existence even more?

Meanwhile, some of my peers were taking courses in art history so they'd be prepared to remember what art looked like just in case anyone asked.

Oh God. He's one of those morons who wants to go to a university, but hates the idea of a liberal education.

Also gotta love how for him, entrepreneurship is all about taking advantage of people and situations. Who cares if anything he does is beneficial if he gets paid!

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. platedlizard 2011-04-17 01:00 am UTC (link)
	coughunfunny_fandomcough Yeah, when I read the summery at Gawker I almost posted it to Fandom_wank, but thought no... considering the last wank he was in, doing that would only end in tears. But yeah, B students are successful students. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. sandglass 2011-04-17 01:05 am UTC (link)
	Reading is hard! I've heard people theorize that it's better to be a B student (for averages, obviously) because B students are better at having a good balance of work, social lives, relaxing, etc and aren't going to burn out or be badly obsessive or anything. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. franzen 2011-04-17 01:21 am UTC (link)
	I heard something similar about students with high, but not 99th percentile, standardized test scores -- smart, yes, but also prepared to work and they understand that good grades and performance don't come easily. It's the kids who coast who get smacked with the reality stick when Shit Gets Real. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

chibikaijuu
2011-04-17 08:01 am UTC (link)

Yeah, that's basically what happened to me (I also had/have pretty severe inattentive ADD comorbid with anxiety and chronic moderate depression, which, uh, didn't and doesn't help). I never, ever learned how to study or properly outline and revise an essay because if I actually did my work, whatever I turned out on the first try would garner an A or B (in fact, I regularly got higher marks on papers written at 2 am the night before than on the ones I actually started a few days ahead of time). Anything that actually required running through exercises to learn (math, chemistry, foreign languages) I generally did well in because my brain likes that sort of thing overall, so doing it was often kind of relaxing (I took a symbolic logic course in college basically for kicks - four credits of A for work that made my brain shut the fuck up because it was busy instead of ragequitting? Hell yes.).
Then I got to college, did well for about a year, and then shit got hard. What do you mean, I can't just read three chapters of organic chemistry the night before and ace the test? I'm doing better, with therapy and medication, but I'm still working on my undergraduate degree six years in. God, do I know a lot of unrelated crap, though.

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Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

napalmnacey
2011-04-17 11:53 am UTC (link)

One psychologist thought I might have ADD cause I have the same problem you have. I'm painting some paintings for an exhibition that's next week. I had a year to do it. I had some mental stress and personal life stuff blow up in my face, but I got to doing it. But it's ending up that it's all being crammed withing a month of the show.

I always fail my courses because I can't concentrate long enough to do the homework. Shit, even when I paint, something I'm obsessively in love with, I have music playing and my laptop nearby if my brain needs a break.

For years I just thought I was dumb. :(

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chibikaijuu, 2011-04-17 06:55 pm UTC

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napalmnacey, 2011-04-17 07:29 pm UTC

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squeakytoy, 2011-04-18 02:00 am UTC

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arachnejericho, 2011-04-18 04:09 am UTC

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white_tean, 2011-04-18 11:26 am UTC

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derryderrydown, 2011-04-18 05:32 pm UTC

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schrodingerscat, 2011-04-17 09:31 pm UTC

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ekaterinv, 2011-04-17 11:13 pm UTC

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

braidedmane
2011-04-18 03:05 am UTC (link)

Anecdata says: yes.

I didn't have to work at all up through high school. I didn't do homework, I didn't study, because I could just show up and ace the tests. Unsurprisingly, I crashed and burned when I hit college. While I think I've done okay getting my life back on the rails (after all, it was always expected that I'd get a degree! It never occurred to anyone, least of all me, that I'd fail out/drop out.) I do wish that I had needed to work harder throughout school, because I would have been prepared to buckle down for college without losing my shit.

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derryderrydown, 2011-04-18 05:36 pm UTC

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beccastareyes, 2011-04-18 09:47 pm UTC

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. vzg 2011-04-19 01:10 am UTC (link)
	That's me! 99th percentile and I'm working for minimum wage at a fast food place. Yay. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

sqbr
2011-04-19 10:58 pm UTC (link)

I don't think it's just that naturally academic kids can coast, there's a psychological trap of defining yourself as Someone Who Gets Good Marks, and the older you are when you have to question that identity the harder it is to figure out how to motivate yourself once you either stop getting good marks (or stop getting them as easily) or are no longer in a context where you get "marks" at all. My anxiety about failure meant I worked moderately hard at school despite naturally testing well, and this just meant I didn't have to confront the spectre of mediocrity until my Phd. And then that stick hit me hard.

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tofuknight, 2011-04-22 02:09 pm UTC

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sqbr, 2011-05-02 09:24 am UTC

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tofuknight, 2011-05-02 09:36 pm UTC

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. sepiamagpie 2011-04-17 03:53 am UTC (link)
	Say that to my mom. Whenever she gets a B, the drang and sturm starts up like whoa. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

eleutheria
2011-04-17 01:10 am UTC (link)

I halfway agree with him, unless that quote is about something completely different than I think it is. I think he means "B students" as in non-college track HS students, not students who get B's. In my (rural) HS, there were a lot of B-track students who went to the vo-tech school for half the day and learned about car mechanics, cosmetology, farming, etc. It's rather a shame that business education and entrepreneurship weren't part of their schooling, as presumably once they master their crafts, they'll all have their own garages, hair salons, commercial farms, electrical contracting businesses, etc. I have so many friends with failed businesses because they knew all about whatever they sold but had no idea how to do a business plan, keep books, and generally be in business.

(But I don't think vo-tech students should have absolutely no liberal arts, that would be incredibly unfair.)

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Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

sandglass
2011-04-17 01:28 am UTC (link)

He doesn't really elaborate on it, but I'm certain he's talking about people in college/university, probably people getting a liberal education because he claims it's useless for them to take either "hard" classes (chemistry, classical literature), or classes that don't have an obvious real world use (art history).

I'm so not opposed to non-liberal educations, vocational schools, etc. But that doesn't seem to be what he's talking about. The article is about getting what you want out of college, which apparently means getting a liberal education but not actually taking advantage of half of what it involves. He doesn't mention pointing certain students away from universities, just complains about the requirements and insults people's intelligence.

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. chienne 2011-04-17 01:22 am UTC (link)
	O.O Uh, Scott? Did you somehow forget about how calculus is used in business? Your future entrepreneurs aren't going to get too far if they can't determine marginal cost, etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

dottiness
2011-04-17 01:23 am UTC (link)

You know, it makes me even angrier for another reason: I don't see it as "A" and "B" students in terms of grades so much as in terms of groups, and the quote seems to be implying that B students are the kids who study lit, or art, or language, or, you know, anything that isn't a nailed-down science or math issue. And thereby, whatever the "B students" do is inherently less important than the kids that are going to become engineers or doctors or scientists.

This is why I stopped reading XKCD and it's certainly another reason on the pile to quit reading Dilbert. I hate it (haaaaaaaaate it) when some science people get all high and mighty about their professions being better than anything else.

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. sandglass 2011-04-17 01:27 am UTC (link)
	Well, he does include literature in his list of things that smart people study? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. dottiness 2011-04-17 01:29 am UTC (link)
	This is what I get for skimming! I noticed that two seconds after finishing my comment. Aren't my cheeks red! (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

evilsqueakers
2011-04-17 03:17 am UTC (link)

I hate it (haaaaaaaaate it) when some science people get all high and mighty about their professions being better than anything else.

Sounds the Dean of Academic Affairs at my last school. I bitched like a mofo because they thought putting a semester's worth of Chemistry in a quarter time frame was normal. It's really, really not. Doing a chapter a day (or more) is nowhere near normal. And I brought it up, that I'd been at the school previously. I said I had my AS in Psych. She literally sneered at that with her whipping out her math cred. She then asked why I wanted to be a vet tech. I told her that I liked helping animals, which was another near sneer.

This, for the record, was at a tech college.

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Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

pfeffermuse
2011-04-18 04:29 am UTC (link)

Most important thing I ever learned in college, and something that I've lectured elementary and high school students on whenever I've done a career-day speech: the moment you enter college/uni, the most important person you should make friends with is your dean's secretary.

They're the person who actually knows what's going on, and will give you correct and concise answers to the misinformation you'll get from your advisor and the disinterested run-around you'll get from your dean.

.

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. evilsqueakers 2011-04-18 04:37 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I completely knew the secretary, but it didn't help alas. It was the prejudice against the softer sciences and ability to speak out. I had some temerity to speak up. (How dare I??) (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

white_tean
2011-04-18 11:33 am UTC (link)

I hate it (haaaaaaaaate it) when some science people get all high and mighty about their professions being better than anything else.
Ugh, Arts people do it too. Have heard way too many professors of Art/Design getting totally defensive about sciences and trying to claim that creativity is the sole property of the arts and anyone can be a (medical) doctor. Pisses me off. Any career field is served by creativity.

The whole Arts/Sciences argument is just so infantile.

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. dottiness 2011-04-18 11:47 am UTC (link)
	It's probably my least favorite academic argument! I admit I've mostly gotten the science -> arts side since communications isn't a science, but damn, I totally believe it goes both ways. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

napalmnacey
2011-04-17 11:50 am UTC (link)

Fuck him. I did art courses in school and at college (a fine art degree) not just because I wanted to be an artist, but because I wanted to know about things. I do terrible in school, I fail lots of things, but I *love* reading and if I could, I'd love to do university courses about things that I enjoy (like classic literature for example!). But no, I'm a dummie, teach me how to sell shit and put me in a store? Holy crap no!

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	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. emily_goddess 2011-04-17 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	For someone like Scott, who probably doesn't enjoy learning for its own sake, the idea of a college program that offers real-world usefulness and nothing else makes a lot of sense. The problem is when he assumes that NO ONE ELSE enjoys learning things or has goals other than "make lots of money". (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button. white_tean 2011-04-18 11:15 am UTC (link)
	I've always been good at basic maths and calculated the marks I'd need to get into my first preference for university required me to only have a B average. I worked out that if I got an A, I'd still have wind up in the same place except I would have wasted time studying harder in subjects that didn't interest me. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Thank god this is UFB because something about this hits my rage button.

lady_jafaria
2011-08-29 10:13 pm UTC (link)

Politics, culture and economy are so important to art that unless your professor is really BAD, an art history course is going to include a working knowledge of the art's context. Art history students don't just memorize works, they study how artistic techniques and ideas about art evolved. I wish people would stop brushing it off as "lol they can point out the Mona Lisa."

Then again, I'm a bit baffled by why he thinks classic literature is fit for "top students," but scoffs at art history. Usually the two fields get an equal level of derision. (...Have I committed a classic blunder in thinking Scott Adams was trying to make sense?)

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