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Magically Ridiculous ([info]staroverthebay) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-04-18 12:21:00


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Is the use of "derpy" ableist?
Disclaimer: I initially planned to post this in [info]equestria since it's largely about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic but I changed my mind and chose to post here because while this discusses primarily MLP:FiM, the issues under discussion are not only unfunny and potentially rage-inducing, it's also something that could be applied to almost any fandom. If I have erred and this belongs in [info]equestria, then I will move it over there, but due to the unfunny issues involved, and the fact that this could be applied to nearly any fandom, I chose to go with the F_W rule of thumb: "When in doubt, UFB"

A little background: In My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, there is a very popular background pony, a periwinkle-blue pegasus pony with yellow hair and yellowish eyes, and a cutie mark of bubbles on her flanks. She appears frequently but is just as described: a background character; she plays no part in the plots. However, due to an animation error -- accidental or intentional, we don't know -- in the very first episode, she was presented in her first appearance with crazy, unaligned eyes, and the fandom glommed on to her. She is known by the fandom nickname of "Derpy Hooves" and show-creator Lauren Faust has stated that because background ponies have no names, that particular one can be Derpy if that's what the fandom wants.

Make no mistake, Derpy Hooves is hugely popular -- she can even rival the main characters in popularity. Fandom has created a very complex and interesting fanon about her, and she remains one of the most drawn, sprited and written-about characters in the series.

So, I was browsing Tumblr the other night, and came across an unusually vitriolic (and overly-generalizing, I think) comment by a user named "tumblrvigilante" decrying the name "Derpy Hooves" and the entire internet "derp" meme.

The thing is, the "derp" meme and more or less everything born of it (including "Derpy Hooves") makes a literal punch line out of those who are mentally disabled or simple unintelligent -- laughing at someone because of how they look or the state of their mental faculties is wrong and offensive. When you laugh because "Derpy Hooves" does something "stupid" (an ableist term in itself), you are laughing at "stupidity" in general -- you are laughing at something that nobody can help; you are laughing at the way someone was born. The same applies to laughing at "Derpy Hooves" because she has a lazy eye. When we openly laugh at and support these things, we support contributions to a culture that teaches not only our general population, but more importantly our -children- that laughing at people for being disabled, for looking on, for being unintelligent, is okay. But it's really not okay to laugh at someone with disabilities, is it?

In the argument that her "silly" appearance is "cute" or "endearing" -- well, that's a bit appropriative. It promotes the idea that it's okay to dehumanize someone with a physical/noticeable disability into something that makes us smile or laugh, even in what we consider a "positive" way. People with disabilities are not here for our entertainment or amusement. They are not here to make us feel better or to make us smile. They are just here, like you or me or anyone. They are people, and they deserve our respect for that alone.

"But she's just a pony," you'll probably say. Yes, she is a pony, and an animated, fictional one at that. But she is a product of our culture, and she contributes to it. She's being used to teach kids and adults alike that dehumanizing PWD is okay. She's being used to promote the idea that the "derp" meme is unharmful, but the process won't end with just the "derp" meme. It will carry over. Things like the "derp" meme can and have and will continue to be used as support for people who like to use the word "retarded" in a derogatory manner (which is basically what everyone who participates in the "derp/Derpy Hooves" meme is already doing), among several other demeaning and ableist slurs.

It's not okay, this "derp" business. And honestly, if you want to support it? At least come out and be upfront with what you're saying: You're okay with and openly support dehumanizing, slurring against, and generally ridiculing PWD/disabilities themselves.


In other words, tumblrvigilante believes that the use of the word "derp" is ableism, and calling the pony "Derpy Hooves" is tantamount to making fun of her unusual appearance.

The owner of the tumblr blog the comment was posted on was rather confused and taken aback by the comment, and posted a long response on her personal tumblr blog, hayjulay.

Later, tumblrvigilante replies with his or her own long response, further insisting that the use of the word "derp" is ableist and harmful, regardless of intent.

hayjulay replies again, and subsequently the point is presumably dropped by both sides. Both sides have made valid points (as well as some less-convincing points) in argument for or against the "derp meme" being ableist, and it appears that they have come to the "agree to disagree" conclusion.

This exchange between tumblrvigilante and hayjulay has been on my mind since I read it, and I briefly discussed the topic with a few friends. However, I'm curious to know what everyone here at [info]unfunny_fandom thinks. Is the whole "derp" meme an ableist slur, making fun of someone who is less fortunate or something that can't be controlled? Is the nickname "Derpy Hooves" actually ableism in disguise? Or is it all effectively a mountain made from a molehill?


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[info]ladyvorkosigan
2011-04-18 09:45 pm UTC (link)
I thought it was well-established that "derpy" comes from "herp derp derp" which is supposed to be mocking how developmentally disabled people are assumed to sound. Which seems like ableism not-even-in-disguise to me. Is this not the case?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]oxfordcomma
2011-04-18 10:23 pm UTC (link)
That is what I always thought, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]airawyn
2011-04-18 10:23 pm UTC (link)
That was my impression, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]overlord_mordax
2011-04-18 10:46 pm UTC (link)
According to Know Your Meme it was a sound made up by the guys who do South Park; and doesn't appear to have been used in a context to make fun of actually mentally disabled characters.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]the__ivorytower
2011-04-18 11:19 pm UTC (link)
When I googled it, it mentions a character named "Mr.Derp" who replaced Chef for an episode, and they made up the word to describe "a ditzy, clumsy situation you can see from a mile away, and can't help but laugh". I also remember it having something to do with them making fun of Rob Schneider with a "movie preview" in which he said, "herp de derp" throughout most of the dialogue, but the tone of the dialogue was basically that of a romantic comedy voice over. Someone later used soundbytes to recreate the Kirby theme.

(Whoa, I'm a carrot.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-04-19 12:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2011-04-19 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-04-19 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oddplaces, 2011-04-20 02:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]txvoodoo, 2011-04-19 07:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bcaluroso, 2011-04-23 10:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]microclimate, 2011-04-19 08:50 pm UTC

[info]cie_anthy
2011-04-18 10:48 pm UTC (link)
Even if that's not how it started - and I believe it is, as well - that's what it's come to mean, among many (if not most) of the people who use it.

And @OP - as for 'unusually vitriolic' - really? In what way was that vitriolic, much less unusually so? It's not even as confrontational as a lot of similar comments I've seen - they seem to be going out of their way to be polite.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sandglass
2011-04-18 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Totally my opinion, and the embrace of "Derp" and it's likenesses by members of the progressive community has always made me really sad. It just seems really cruel.

The entire "Derpy Pony" thing seems like a huge extension of that. Something that started out ableist that became even more ableist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-04-18 11:36 pm UTC (link)
And now that I've gone looking for the origin of it, I think I'm confusing it with Carlos Mencia's bit "Dee Dee Dee" (I guess?).

Still strikes me as really ableist, though. Especially the website, which elsewhere refers to the pony as "retarded".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2011-04-19 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]roachspit, 2011-04-19 05:27 am UTC

[info]cmdr_zoom
2011-04-18 11:52 pm UTC (link)
And that's why I've always been rather uncomfortable about the character and/or her fanon name, but didn't feel that it was my place to go calling anyone on privilege.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]greenling
2011-04-19 12:04 am UTC (link)
Hrrf. I was not particularly aware that those sounds were supposed to have much inherent meaning, and that the "derp eyes" were from some meme several times removed from any source.

Though I'd agree with what someone else said, in that there do seem to be a number of people who use it in essence to make fun of the mentally retarded, rather than a slightly different version of that one dog trying to drink out of a fire hydrant that spawned DSFARGEG or whatever it was.

At least there's no dearth of other gibberish words to replace it with, eh?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sistercoyote
2011-04-19 12:41 am UTC (link)
WHARRGARBL

I don't tend to use "derp" or "hurdurr" or any of those in my meatspace because they both bother me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2011-04-19 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-04-19 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2011-04-20 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-04-20 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2011-04-20 03:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2011-04-20 06:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2011-04-20 06:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubymellon, 2011-04-22 11:17 pm UTC

[info]cimorene111
2011-04-19 12:18 am UTC (link)
Exactly. This isn't the first time it's been popular slang. When I was in school, I suppose sometime in the mid-90s, some variant of saying "herp" in combination with a mocking (usually cross-eyed or eyerolling) expression and hitting yourself in the chest with a bent "spastic hand" was a popular mocking comment to make when you wanted to indicate that someone was being "stupid".

It seems that a surprisingly large number of people this time around simply aren't aware of the origin, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ladyvorkosigan
2011-04-19 01:44 am UTC (link)
This is my memory too. We're probably around the same age.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ldymusyc
2011-04-19 02:06 am UTC (link)
EXACTLY this. I've disliked the whole 'derp' phenomenon since the beginning of it because that's the only thing I can associate it with.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]braidedmane
2011-04-19 07:27 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that's definitely the connection I'd make. I don't see how it could possibly not be considered ableist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]castalianspring
2011-04-20 04:05 am UTC (link)
In the late 80s, it was "durr" coupled with the hand motions you describe. I never heard any version of "herp derp" until very recently on the internet.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]khym_chanur
2011-04-19 12:28 am UTC (link)
Huh, I thought it was supposed to mean "dorky in an an adorable sort of way".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ianthefira
2011-04-19 12:49 am UTC (link)
That's the meaning that's used in the circles I frequent, which, uh, I guess I won't be using that word anymore now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sisterelwood
2011-04-19 03:18 am UTC (link)
That's how I figured it but I was aware of its other meaning. I just see Derpy as being dorky. *shrugs* However, I figured others were using it to slam those with disabilities.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rhosyn_du
2011-04-19 03:30 am UTC (link)
That's what I thought, too. Sort of "dorky with a side of adorable absentmindedness." Like "ditzy's" cuter, nerdier cousin. But, then, my entire exposure to the word comes from South Park and f7u12.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cyndra_falin
2011-04-19 03:34 am UTC (link)
Same here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2011-04-19 04:56 am UTC (link)
May I suggest "adorkable" as a replacement, then?

... it's a word. >_>

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2011-04-19 04:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]taktuk, 2011-04-21 08:39 pm UTC

[info]blue_penguin
2011-04-19 10:15 am UTC (link)
Yeah, in the circles I run in it's usually used either to refer to a fictional character being endearingly silly/dorky or to refer to oneself having an airhead moment. I haven't ever seen it used to mock people with disabilities, but my internet presence is really fairly limited (which is to say, I spend a lot of time online, but mostly on about four different sites).

That being said, I've never used it much myself and will be careful not to do so in the future now that I know people are uncomfortable with it. ("Adorkable" is a more fun word anyway.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]sqbr, 2011-04-19 11:12 pm UTC

[info]tehrin
2011-04-19 05:50 am UTC (link)
Huh. I always took it to mean putting your foot in your mouth when I used it. Good to know.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2011-04-19 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-04-20 03:44 am UTC

[info]cotume27
2011-04-19 08:40 am UTC (link)
Ditto.

Actually stopped reading Real Life Comics because the writer used it, I e-mailed him, and got a very dismissive response.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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