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	oxfordcomma 2011-07-11 09:14 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't he get all faily about the sexism in the books, too? Or maybe I'm thinking of some of his fans? Anyway, this makes me glad I never picked up the series. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2011-07-11 09:16 pm UTC (link)
	I tried them, but they didn't really do it for me. Which is a shame, I thought I'd be all the heck over a modern day wizard detective. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eleutheria
2011-07-11 10:12 pm UTC (link)

I liked the Codex Alera ones but tried Dresden Files and just didn't like it either. Not only was the MC sexist and annoyingly unlikeable, but the worldbuilding was cliche and spare (I actually had to look up that it was in Chicago when I reviewed it on my DW, and that was a couple days after I read it-- there was just no sense of place, and it didn't stick with me the way other mystery and UF series' locales have) and the magic system read like it was ganked from D&D with a sprinkling of Harry Potter on top.

It also hit every UF cliche and PI noir cliche in the book. I can somewhat understand the first, since it was out before a lot of those elements had a chance to become cliche, but still. It was nothing I haven't read a thousand times and done better elsewhere.

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	hadesphoenix 2011-07-12 12:07 am UTC (link)
	To be fair, the first book was deliberately done as a mockery of the genre, a "look anyone can write this" (I think as his final project in university?) and yet it took off. Which doesn't excuse the fail on any counts, but it does explain some of the abundance of tropes, at least. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eleutheria
2011-07-12 12:38 am UTC (link)

I didn't know that (I knew Codex Alera began as a writing dare, but not the other series too-- so what, does he only write to prove a point?), but that actually makes me like it even less. The idea of writing something for that reason it to prove that anyone can write it well, not that anyone can write it period. Get at least one thing done well, JB-- an appealing and interesting MC, great sense of place, innovative magic system, something. That had none of them.

I've asked a few people if it gets better, and was basically told "not for six books or so". Fuck that, I've got a stack of library books more deserving of my attention than having to wade through half a series to see if it improves.

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	sepiamagpie 2011-07-12 12:42 am UTC (link)
	My solution was to just get back to work on my own magical detective. I like her. She looks like my icon. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hadesphoenix 2011-07-12 01:16 am UTC (link)
	...I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to possible future publication. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

sepiamagpie
2011-07-12 01:49 am UTC (link)

:D

It's a year in the life of Dene Surma as she tries to solve a murder no one knows about (the victim hired her), and the cases that come up along the way.

Actually, on the topic of the fuck ups that Butcher is doing with neighbourhoods. I'm putting this in a city I don't go to that often (Vancouver, because the city I do know, Winnipeg, is where I'd set it if I wanted my character to be in a depressed pit or on fire) and I've found just a simple fucking google streetview or flickr searches to be invaluable.

He obviously has the internet, it's not, you know, hard.

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	bobafeis 2011-07-12 08:18 am UTC (link)
	... That sounds awesome. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	catmoran 2011-07-12 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	It's a year in the life of Dene Surma as she tries to solve a murder no one knows about (the victim hired her) Sweet. I would also like to subscribe to your future publication. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kumquat_of_doom 2011-07-15 01:02 am UTC (link)
	I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to their newsletter. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	keleri 2011-08-04 07:34 pm UTC (link)
	Post on fandom_lounge when you get published/publish this as an ebook. We demand it. <3 (Reply to this)(Parent)

Warning for mention of assault.

hadesphoenix
2011-07-12 01:14 am UTC (link)

Hrm, I think I worded that wrongly and made him sound too condescending. From what I understand it was a not-much-effort-put-into-it bit, period, which is still kind of eyebrow-arching but whatever. I liked it well enough as fun fluff and enjoy the fic more, but yeah, stopped at about three and a half books in, and I'm still side-eyeing Butcher for a few things in there.

(I have to say, though, that there's been some fascinating meta discussion on sexuality and Dresden's characterization, especially since sexual assault of the Very Male and Heterosexual Hero (Look How Straight I Am, Are You Looking Yet) is canon on more than one occasion. It's even been mentioned by other characters once or twice how his skill at denial and repression is practically a magic power in itself.)

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	ecchaniz0r 2011-07-12 02:27 am UTC (link)
	IIRC the Belgariad started out that way. With Eddings going, "I betcha I can put every single trope I can think of ever into this and still make it turn out awesome!" (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-07-12 03:05 am UTC (link)
	Won that bet, IMO. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	msilverstar 2011-07-13 08:05 am UTC (link)
	I agree, it really worked. Damn shame his (their) later books were so bad. So many authors need editorial restraint and doesn't get it because their books sell a lot on the basis of previous good stuff. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	duraniedrama 2011-07-14 02:54 pm UTC (link)
	I picked up one of the Dresden Files books in the library and had a look at the opening scene to see if it would hold my interest enough to be worth checking out. I could practically see the Xena-level CGI effects in my brain. I put the book back on the shelf and haven't touched his work since. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosehiptea 2011-07-11 11:18 pm UTC (link)
	I read the first one and got halfway through the second and just... wasn't interested. Which was odd for me too because the premise just sounded so cool. I loved Bob, and liked Murphy a lot, and Harry was OK, and the plot was... meh, and that was about it as far as I was concerned. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2011-07-11 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	I tried three, because work was going through a 'no one appears the entire afternoon' period, and I think my final point was I couldn't understand why he had the same problem with the woman cop over. and over. and over. That was Murphy, right? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rosehiptea
2011-07-11 11:42 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, that was her, and now that you mention it that did get annoying. Though at the time I might have put the whole Murphy thing down to "PIs in fiction always think the cops are irrationally after them when they aren't.")

I guess I remember some werewolf (?) who I thought was being described from a really male-gazey point of view and getting tired of that, but... that's all I remember as far as "fail" type stuff. But again, that's probably my memory and not anything else.

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platedlizard
2011-07-12 05:44 am UTC (link)

The Nightside series by Simon Greene. I stopped reading that series because I got tired of the 1st person POV and a Gary-Stuish main character, but if you can get over that it's fairly good.

Mercedes Lackey's Diana Tregard series is pretty good IMO, but then I am an admitted fangirl.

I don't really have anything else like that in the modern world. Those Who Hunt By Night is in the Victorian era, and doesn't have a wizard. But it does have an ex-spy doing the sleuthing and actually scary vampires, so it might count. Plus the spy's wife is pretty awesome, although her role in the sequel is considerably better IMO. Victorian era female research doctor FTW.

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