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airawyn
2011-07-12 12:14 am UTC (link)

Well, it’s someone ranting on their personal blog, something they probably never expected him to look at. It’s not quite the same as a letter sent directly to the author.

Also, an entirely different person tried to engage him rationally after he reacted to the first post, and he still dismissed that person. I understand the kneejerk reaction to someone who’s raging at you, but when you’ve had a chance to calm down and you’ve got other people telling you “No, really, this is an issue”, and you’re still dismissing everything because the first person said “fuck you” then that’s “derailing: tone argument”.

I haven’t read any unfunny wank about him before, but he did name a Native American character “Injun Joe”, so it would not surprise me.

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	ealusaid 2011-07-12 02:17 am UTC (link)
	but he did name a Native American character “Injun Joe”, so it would not surprise me. I TAKE IT ALL BACK. Free range after all! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ecchaniz0r
2011-07-12 02:37 am UTC (link)

That made me groan. I mean - argh, you really can't hipster out like that. We're not 'post-racist'. Stupid prejudice and stereotypes against NA folks are alive and well, and while Butcher may not personally have seen them in action, others sure as hell have.

It's not exactly rare either. How in-the-open it is depends where you are; you can get out-in-the-open back-assward-ness or 'ironic' hipster BS, but it's still all over. The fact that it took Canada up until a few years ago to apologize for those disgusting residential schools (if you google these for further details, I WARN YOU, they were often rife with abuse and assault of all kinds--and either way they were an attempt at cultural obliteration) says it all. The fact that a lot of programs run by and for NA people had their funding slashed shortly after that apology says EVEN MORE.

tl;dr yeah you can't do 'ironic' shit like that. Racism is not over. Jerkfaces still equals very yes.

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	sepiamagpie 2011-07-12 02:39 am UTC (link)
	Seconding the warning about Residential Schools. If even my racist as hell grandma thought they were disgusting, they're disgusting. The people running them were a piece of work. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2011-07-12 02:42 am UTC (link)
	One of my profs at university was a survivor of said schools. Yeah. I have never wanted to set so much fire as I did after he alluded to what was done to friends of his. I wanted to set even more fire after he gave us this utterly humourless grin and said, "And mine's considered one of the better schools." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2011-07-12 02:44 am UTC (link)
	and they were running into the eighties. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2011-07-12 02:54 am UTC (link)
	I know aaaauurrgrhhhg. It makes me want to clorox my soul. It makes my brain sting. D: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2011-07-12 02:57 am UTC (link)
	It really fucks with my patriotism, man. 'Canada's awesome! Wait, residential schools. Wait, the oka crisis. Son of a bitch.' Can I bitch about the oka crisis? It happened over a fucking golf course. How white is that? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-07-12 03:07 am UTC (link)
	But Canada's supposed to be the fucking white liberal promised land (for those of us in the States), what the hell? Oh, white liberal. Got it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

sepiamagpie
2011-07-12 03:11 am UTC (link)

You're basically fucked if you're first nations. A lot of the reservations are disturbingly similar to third world countries.

There was a TB outbreak at one near here. I found out when I was in the hospital and coughed, and joked I had the consumption. And my dad got really upset and said 'a girl died from that upstairs.' and gave me the details about what was going on in Sioux Valley.

My country can be very upsetting.

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	cmdr_zoom 2011-07-12 03:34 am UTC (link)
	you're destroying all my illusions about the land of milk, honey, poutine and socialized medicine. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2011-07-12 03:35 am UTC (link)
	We do have those last two. The poutine's pretty good, not gonna lie. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2011-07-13 12:26 am UTC (link)
	We also have pop/soda with cane sugar in it everywhere, and dill pickle chips and ketchup chips (a friend in DC tells me she cannot get those regularly there). And Timbits! So yeah there is fail aplenty here sometimes as there is fail everywhere...but on the upside, while we plot to end the fail entirely, we can eat Timbits. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ealusaid
2011-07-12 02:43 am UTC (link)

I just spent a couple years working at a program for dropout kids in Canada, 95% of whom were First Nations or Métis. And the racism is incredible, and also at least up here, if the word can't apply to you, then do not use the word "Indian."

(Also, "Injun Joe"? How useless a name is that? How will that identify the guy in any other way from every other "Injun" named Joe? Or does he just spend all his time in the company of white people? Does he have no relatives?)

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ecchaniz0r
2011-07-12 02:54 am UTC (link)

Oh man. Yeah. It - it's not as bad as it was but it's still bad. But I'm glad there're programs like that in place. I worry a whole hell of a lot about programs like that GOING AWAY because people are dense about such things, and in the end when stuff like that happens we all lose.

'Indian' works that way in my neck of the woods too (ohai I'mma Canuck in Ontario *waves*). I know a bunch of people who use it as a 'oh yeah, by the way, your so-called pejorative? YOINKED! OUR WORD NOW :D' type deal, and a bunch who can't stand it and avoid it like whoa.

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ealusaid
2011-07-12 03:07 am UTC (link)

Where I was, it was absolutely, "I'M an Indian and proud of it, and you're not going to tell me what I can or can't call myself, so I can use it. YOU can't." So the non-aboriginal staff of every race used different words, because you can't automatically tell that "Indian" is meant respectfully, while it's easier with "First Nations". I mean, I still can't hear my white grandmother say "Indian" without hearing either "East-", "drunk", or "dirty" inaudibly attached to the front of it.

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	issendai 2011-07-12 04:43 am UTC (link)
	Please 'scuse a Yank's ignorance of Canadian race relations, but why is "East Indian" an insult? Google explained why Indo-Canadians find it annoying, but not why a white person would use it as an insult. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ealusaid 2011-07-12 04:48 am UTC (link)
	Oh, it's not, sorry. g "East-Indian" is her way of saying someone from India, ie. an ethnicity she kind of likes and not at all like those OTHER Indians. (Reply to this)(Parent)

evilsqueakers
2011-07-13 08:38 pm UTC (link)

In Kelley Armstrong's latest YA trilogy she mentioned the residential schools since her MC is Native American (the character was originally from the States) and living on Vancouver Island for the past decade. No description but I gathered from the tone of the sentence that they were disgusting.

Once I get a minute again, I'm going to look them up. Because I have a feeling it's going to be relevant to the series and as I like Maya, I should know these things. Also because sometimes tells me as a non-Canadian this should be read about if it comes up again since Armstrong uses Canada (various parts) occasionally.

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	sequinedlizard 2011-07-12 06:33 am UTC (link)
	I don't like him using that name, but that character is also named Listens to Wind, and he only really allows a few people to use the "Injun Joe" one. Listens to Wind does call the main character who uses that name a hick, so it seems to be part of their dynamic. Whether a white man should be WRITING that dynamic is a whole 'nother issue. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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