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spearcarrier
2011-07-13 08:03 pm UTC (link)

Considering that Jim Butcher used 'tarbaby' to describe a black servant creature in his last book, I don't expect that much better from him anyway.

More to the point of this particular wank, he also notes in that passage about Hyde Park that the (all white, if I recall correctly) Alphas have been patrolling and cleaning up the crime there. So apparently what this black neighborhood needed was some white people to save it from itself.

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	hadesphoenix 2011-07-13 10:41 pm UTC (link)
	used 'tarbaby' to describe a black servant creature in his last book ...Seriously? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

spearcarrier
2011-07-13 11:29 pm UTC (link)

Yep. Search "Jim Butcher" tar baby and the page is archived on Google Books, fourth result down.
I listened to the audiobook first and found it that way; at first I thought I'd misheard, and went back to it several times. Then I checked in a paper copy and it was right there.
Funny thing? Most white people I've talked to didn't even notice, or at least didn't come to a screeching mental halt over it. If it's brought up, they mumble something about how he probably didn't mean it and it's not such a big deal. Meanwhile, my sister's partner looked like he'd been punched in the stomach when he saw that word on the page. (He's black).

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	hadesphoenix 2011-07-13 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	It looks like it's in one of the latest books, and I gave up somewhere around the middle of the fourth. ...Huh. I was willing to grant the benefit of the doubt about a lot of things, given a highly unreliable first-person narrator with a fucked-up history of abuse, but that really only goes so far, Butcher, seriously. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

spearcarrier
2011-07-14 12:29 am UTC (link)

It's in 'Changes', the most recent novel.

This is the same book where he wipes out all the Red Court vampires (who are pretty universally described as Hispanic/Latino). It's a little squirmy when the white main character wipes out an entire group that has been specifically depicted as non-white. One of my more tactless friends swears that if he ever meets Butcdher he's going to ask him why he decided to go with the 'Latino genocide', as he describes it. Meanwhile, Dresden is allies with the other group of people-eaters in the series...you, know, the pale white ones. We've never seen a human/humane Red Court, either, whereas we've seen at least one protaganistic White Court.

I used to like the Dresden Files but boy howdy, does the author have issues.

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warrioreowyn
2011-07-14 02:23 am UTC (link)

...the Red Court weren't specifically depicted as non-white. Paolo Ortega was specifically noted to have been one of the Conquistadors, Martin [the half-vampire who worked with Susan] was noted to be white. It's noted that the Red Court primarily operated in Latin America, but not that they're all Latino. Not that race is a relevant term to use discussing them anyway, because their human forms are simply how they choose to appear - they're actually bat-looking creatures.

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spearcarrier
2011-07-14 01:56 pm UTC (link)

I was under the impression that Paolo Ortega was a Spaniard, which is still 'other' in terms of the rest of the mostly-white cast.

Martin was also working against the Red Court, instrumental in their destruction. He was also not full Red Court. Paolo Ortega, Lady Ariana...admittedly the twins in the fourth book were white, but they're a gender-fail and they die in that same book. All the big movers and shakers are Hispanic/Latino.

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	kumquat_of_doom 2011-07-15 01:15 am UTC (link)
	...But Spaniards are white. Well, that's not quite true, but I'm assuming you don't mean he's a black Spaniard or something like that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spearcarrier 2011-07-15 02:03 am UTC (link)
	Paolo Ortega is described fairly dark-skinned and dark-haired; Spanish folks may be lumped in as white or may consider themselves white, I'm not really sure how it goes, but Ortega is specifically described as darker-skinned than most of the protaganistic cast. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kumquat_of_doom 2011-07-15 02:16 am UTC (link)
	Well, yeah; Spanish people are frequently stereotyped as 'swarthy', but every 'ethnically Spanish' (God, these terms are so awkward) person I've ever encountered, my best friend and her family included, would be extremely confused if someone didn't think they were white. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spearcarrier 2011-07-15 02:51 am UTC (link)
	I take your point. Suffice it to say that the overwhelming majority of the re-occurring Red Court including the Spanish characters, are described as swarthy and non-white compared to the primarily pale-skinned protagonists. So the entire extermination feels just a little bit twitchy and race-faily when looked at as part of the pattern. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kumquat_of_doom 2011-07-15 03:33 am UTC (link)
	nods I'll take your word for it; I've never read the Dresden books, so I've no dog in this fight, I just double-took when you seemed to be saying that Spanish people weren't white. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sukeban 2011-07-15 04:56 pm UTC (link)
	And Paolo is an Italian name (the Spanish for Paul is Pablo, like Picasso), but let's not go there either. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kumquat_of_doom 2011-07-15 06:27 pm UTC (link)
	Somehow, I don't think research is exactly Mr Butcher's forté... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	warrioreowyn 2011-07-21 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	...Spain is in Europe. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	warchio 2011-07-17 06:51 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know if you read Changes or not? (Don't want to give spoilers) But there were a number of the Red Court who were specifically noted as being 'not-white' and the Red Court drew from a lot of 'not-white' tropes. Plus, although their actual appearance is of creepy bat-things, they were human once. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ecchaniz0r
2011-07-14 01:03 am UTC (link)

I wonder if it's a - thing with the editor or the agent or something? IIRC he shares one of these with Laurell K Hamilton, and. Uh. Yyyyeah. Similar issues abound (e.g. the were-rats all being latin@/hispanic, genderfail, LGBT-fail).

So maybe it's a thing?

I 'unno. Mostly I'm just going all 'how did this get past--who even says--BUH!?' and trying to make my neurons do something besides Three Stooges routines on the floor.

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spearcarrier
2011-07-14 01:28 am UTC (link)

Ah, the gender- and LGBT-fail. There's plenty to go around, from the female hexen-wolf who's so much more out of control and aroused by violence compared to her male counterparts in Fool Moon to the calmer male/more violent and less rational partnership dynamic he's used not just once, but twice.

Then there's the fact that the only characters with any sort of non-straight sexuality or attraction partner have all been women, with two of the three being vampires and the last someone who 'experimented in college'. Now, some of the male vampires will refer to men as 'food' with all that entails, but unlike the women their same-sex feeding/attachment is never shown. Then again, the fact that I'm having to pull in vampire feeding preferences because it's the closest situation to non-straight sexuality in the series should say it all.

I dunno how people don't notice these things either, honestly, but they're pretty obvious with even half a glance. Unfortunately, some people don't want to even look straight at it in the first place.

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	rosehiptea 2011-07-14 11:12 pm UTC (link)
	the female hexen-wolf who's so much more out of control and aroused by violence compared to her male counterparts in Fool Moon Was she the one who was going around naked in a fight, or right before a fight, or something like that? Granted, I don't remember the book that well, and didn't finish it, but I seem to remember that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

spearcarrier
2011-07-15 02:40 am UTC (link)

Probably at the end of the book. She was the one who lost control in talking to Dresden and almost ripped out his guts with her nipples at full attention at the thought. She had to be restrained by one of her male partners.

Then there's the twins in Grave Peril with the female half who tries to jump Dresden (or Michael, she's not very discriminating) at every opportunity and has to be controlled/rescued by her brother, who's eerily similar to the childlike and destructive female character in Changes who has to be counseled to be careful and prudent by her male significant other.

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	rosehiptea 2011-07-15 02:41 am UTC (link)
	I didn't get to the end of the book though, so maybe somebody else was naked, or I've just forgotten the whole thing. It really didn't impress me. (I'm not even saying that due to the fail, to be honest... I just couldn't get into it.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spearcarrier 2011-07-16 02:58 pm UTC (link)
	I understand. Myself, I used to love the series and have read them all repeatedly, but that was before I'd checked as much of my privilege and bias. Now I just can't unsee his massive fail. (Reply to this)(Parent)

tehrin
2011-07-14 03:59 am UTC (link)

Glad I have never invested in or plan on investing in anything that has remotely to do with LKH or Butcher. I was aware of some of the issues with LKH, but holy shit. I wouldn't place the blame on the editor because it seems far-fetched to me, though the editor is clearly blind to racial insensitivity as are the authors (if any of the parties involved are not overtly racist that is).

Isn't Anita Blake supposed to be biracial?

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	sequinedlizard 2011-07-14 07:08 am UTC (link)
	Yes. She's German and Mexican. But her Mexican heritage only seems to come up when she's angsting about her white stepmother. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	varkias 2011-07-14 11:32 am UTC (link)
	That is disgusting. D: I am so, so glad that when someone gave me a copy of the first book of the series, and I attempted to read it, I got so bored that I never got far enough into it to come across any of this shit. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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