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mefan 2011-08-01 08:25 am UTC (link)

This is why people who do not fully understand the nuances of BDSM have no business engaging in D/s relationships. Any proper Dominant would be able to detect when their submissive partner was uncomfortable w/certain aspects of play. "No means no except when it means yes" only applies when there has been a careful and detailed outlining of what is kosher and what isn't beforehand (rape fantasy isn't something that two play partners just decide to do one day on the fly -- personally, I find it distasteful, but I have friends who are also into BDSM who do not and I know that they always have any scene involving non-con planned in extremely intricate detail). And even then, sometimes w/in the context of non-con play "no" can really mean "no" and as I said above any proper Dominant would be able to pick up on that. Non-TL;DR version: Jack was raped. Kynn raped Jack. Ergo, Kynn is a rapist. Intentionally or otherwise. (Reply to this)(Thread)

jackandahat 2011-08-01 11:33 am UTC (link)

Except... they weren't scening. That's been explicitly stated - "http://ravan.dreamwidth.org/539471.html?thread=1246031#cmt1246031">A and B did not have a D/s dynamic and there was no "scene" or other context in which no wouldn't mean no."</a> Not to single you out, you're just the comment I got to when I finally got to "Argggghhh", but that's been bugging me a lot - someone said it was about kink, and then that got picked up and reposted everywhere. I know people are *defending* kink, but there's still the idea that this happened because of kink. BDSM had nothing to do with it. It has to do with why Jack can't go to the cops, but nothing to do with the actual rape itself. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - mefan, 2011-08-01 08:35 pm UTC

ekaterinv 2011-08-01 12:46 pm UTC (link)

This is why people who do not fully understand the nuances of BDSM have no business engaging in D/s relationships No it's not. The rape had nothing to do with BDSM. It wasn't about any kind of confusion -- not that it would be anyway, that's at best a pathetic excuse (or, rather, lie). Rapists rape because they like to rape people. It's not sex or kinky sex or being a dom or playing out fantasies they want, they want to rape. And fantasy ravishment does not always have to be planned out in intricate detail, particularly in long-term relationships. This is why safe words exist and why the dom is always checking, in both subtle and not-so-subtle ways, that the sub is enthusiastically participating. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-01 01:56 pm UTC

(no subject) - menthodelic, 2011-08-01 03:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-01 03:57 pm UTC

(no subject) - menthodelic, 2011-08-01 05:12 pm UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-01 06:19 pm UTC

(no subject) - mefan, 2011-08-01 08:39 pm UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-01 08:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-01 07:16 pm UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-01 07:20 pm UTC

(no subject) - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-01 09:57 pm UTC

(no subject) - menthodelic, 2011-08-01 08:10 pm UTC

(no subject) - ickle_snowflake, 2011-08-01 08:36 pm UTC

(no subject) - napalmnacey, 2011-08-02 06:09 pm UTC

(no subject) - mefan, 2011-08-01 08:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - ekaterinv, 2011-08-02 12:08 am UTC

(no subject) - mefan, 2011-08-02 07:38 am UTC

(no subject) - ekaterinv, 2011-08-02 08:32 am UTC

sandglass 2011-08-03 07:51 am UTC (link)

Any proper Dominant would be able to detect when their submissive partner was uncomfortable w/certain aspects of play. Except for the part where nobody is psychic, and if you expect a dom to know instinctively you're setting up for situations like what Kynn is claiming, where a person misses the cues and then claims they never existed. Communication and safewords > magical domly powers. Further, someone can be a great dom and have trouble reading cues. People with ADHD and on the autism spectrum often have troubles with this, regardless of their experience with people or their intentions, and to tell them that they cannot be a "proper" dom because of that is cruel, and frankly kind of ableist, and I'm really sick of people acting like if you're better at detecting subtle changes in moods that you're somehow better than people who aren't. The important thing is being open to communication, encouraging it, and learning from it, and that's what we need to stress for people in relationships of any kind. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	esorlehcar 2011-08-02 01:00 am UTC (link)
	Another charming victim-blaming post, with a lot of bonus whining about how MEAN everyone was to the poor author when all she did was suggest that victim was clearly lying and probably a sockpuppet: http://ravan.dreamwidth.org/539471.html?format=light (Reply to this)(Thread)

	duraniedrama 2011-08-02 01:40 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's just awful when people spout inflammatory terms like 'rape culture' in situations that are practically textbook cases of it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dere 2011-08-02 02:15 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, same person who came charging into elf's post all cui bono (who profits?) and shit, like no one ever thought to read for content and weigh the situation before speaking out about it. Because if you have an opinion that differs from theirs, you obviously weren't thinking about it. Rage-y goodness. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-02 02:24 am UTC

sunhawk 2011-08-02 02:30 am UTC (link)

She also posted here: http://elf.dreamwidth.org/436139.html?thread=5991595#cmt5991595 And summed up the rape situation as "fucked up relationship is fucked up drama relationship" - well I wonder why people are telling her that she's perpetuating rape culture, could it possibly be because SHE IS??? Noooo....surely not.... The way she continues to try to suggest that Jack was equally at fault and it's just freaky strange BDSM relationship "drama" is just disgusting. Saying stuff like this: "My gut said "WTF, bail out!" for both of them - they seemed to be feeding off of each other." "Right now I really think they all are in serious need of professional help. Just.... Ewww." "Truthfully, I don't have warm fuzzy feelings about any of them right now, probably due to some of my issues with passive-aggressive manipulation, emotional herding, and that type of emotional garbage that hits my buttons. But that's my problem." "So I tend to question the motives of people who want to tear down someone who is fighting for things I believe in, even if that person does, ultimately, turn out to be a troubled person who doesn't respect boundaries and gets into nasty, messy, screwed up, abusive relationships, or even turns out to be a genuine douchebag in their personal life. Because piling on feels like giving aid and comfort to the enemy, even when the person in question really needs a cold dose of reality to the face. " All of this weasel "they are both equally to blame" phrasing turns my stomach. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - kumquat_of_doom, 2011-08-02 02:48 am UTC

(no subject) - kaesa, 2011-08-02 03:05 am UTC

(no subject) - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-02 03:11 am UTC

(no subject) - kita0610, 2011-08-02 04:10 am UTC

	sepiamagpie 2011-08-03 06:41 pm UTC (link)
	DW really needs a notes feature. I settled for pre-emptively banning in the strange circumstance she ever tried to speak to me. Sort of like how one would keep a stake in case of vampire attack. (Reply to this)(Parent)

warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS sunhawk 2011-08-02 06:58 am UTC (link)

In Ravan's case, apparently the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, since her mother has decided to (ignorantly) weigh in on this situation: http://ravan.livejournal.com/545911.html?thread=1335159#t1335159 And this post, IDEK WTF: http://jemyl.livejournal.com/180000.html According to her logic, "true" feminists can rape whoever they like??? and Doing Basic Human Decency Wrong, Part II: http://jemyl.livejournal.com/179820.html (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS bof 2011-08-02 09:31 am UTC (link)
	I just can't. YOU'RE DEFENDING RAPE AND A RAPIST AND HAVE THE NERVE TO GET OFFENDED WHEN YOU'RE CALLED OUT ON IT, HOW FUCKING DARE YOU. Can't. Just can't. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS jackandahat 2011-08-02 10:13 am UTC (link)

"A true feminist simply sees the female gender as superior to the male gender. Females are also seen as not limited by anything. They're smarter, more clever and better at whatever they choose to do. " Of course women shouldn't be limited by pesky things like consent, that would just be oppressive. My god, where do these people come from, so I can make sure never to go there? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - fernmonkey, 2011-08-02 11:04 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - kita0610, 2011-08-05 01:29 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-02 03:17 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - jackandahat, 2011-08-02 04:23 pm UTC

	Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS chikane 2011-08-02 10:32 am UTC (link)
	A true feminist simply sees the female gender as superior to the male gender. She doesn't know what she's talking about. What a surprise. Basic Human Decency isn't optional. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - jackandahat, 2011-08-02 10:35 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-02 03:18 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - dere, 2011-08-02 08:48 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-03 02:37 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - eleutheria, 2011-08-03 09:24 pm UTC

	Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS dere 2011-08-02 02:48 pm UTC (link)
	Wow. I vote for the "appalling human being" and "fucked up relationship" tags over on LJ. I just don't even know. IDEK, people. I should never be surprised by women being rape-culture minions. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS b_jellybean 2011-08-02 05:14 pm UTC (link)
	I truly believe that what should have been said is that Caoimhe still tends to act like a lecherous male in situations where she is attracted to someone and therefore Alexandraerin and Jack could not in good conscience support her most recent project. So, they should have said "she is being trans WRONG" rather than "she committed a crime"? That is wrong in so many ways. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-02 09:19 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - phosfate, 2011-08-03 06:29 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - kita0610, 2011-08-03 09:03 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - menthodelic, 2011-08-03 09:37 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - kita0610, 2011-08-03 09:42 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - menthodelic, 2011-08-03 10:19 pm UTC

(no subject) - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-03 09:47 pm UTC

(no subject) - menthodelic, 2011-08-03 10:22 pm UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - ashenmote, 2011-08-04 11:30 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - jackandahat, 2011-08-04 11:33 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - ingrid_jekyll, 2011-08-04 11:43 am UTC

Re: warning: links contain more misogyny, victim-blaming, transphobia and made-up faux scientific BS - esclaramonde, 2011-08-03 07:21 pm UTC

bishounenhideto 2011-08-02 01:30 pm UTC (link)

Let me gives folks some more insight into Kynn. I've known Kynn for years off and on. 10 or so years ago, I used to be friendlier with Kynn. We knew each other on an online text-based RPG (TinyMUCKs, for those who know). She used to be good friends with my ex-husband, Jim, who is Chinese. Kynn and I had a disagreement over free speech. She ran a discussion board that she claimed had free speech. One day, people talked about a subject she didn't enjoy and told those people they weren't allowed to talk about it on her board anymore. It wasn't especially inflammatory. She just got bored of it. She stated this openly. I challenged her that by asking people to no longer discuss a topic she considered boring, on her board, her board was no longer free speech. She argued it still was, she just was sick of that topic and told them to go somewhere else. I decided to set up that "somewhere else" so people could discuss this "boring topic" to their heart's content. This bugged Kynn to no end. I mentioned my board was free speech, more so than hers, and allowed people to post whatever they wanted. She decided in a fit of severe pique, to test that theory. She specifically went against good sense/spirit of the law and spammed the crap out of the board petulantly, claiming that if my board was truly free speech, I was not allowed to clean up the spam or I'd be the same hypocrite I was claiming she was. I didn't let that goad me, and agreed and left it up, knowing she'd get bored of posting the spam soon enough. Apparently this bothered her that I wasn't going to whine about it or change it. Seeing that spam didn't work, she began posting curse words or other immature profanities, claiming I still couldn't clean up the board or I'd no longer be free speech. I again decided to let her get bored with doing that. When that didn't work, she knew she only had one recourse left to truly goad me. Jim and Kynn had been friends longer than I'd been married to Jim. Jim was at work when this was happening. Kynn was logged into two online text games at once, one a casual place where the members just talked about their lives, played around with game code, and generally didn't do much. The other one, the one I was connected to at the time, was a more roleplay-oriented game. Jim was on the casual game as he didn't enjoy online RP as much anymore. He wasn't on the other place and was unaware of what I was doing because he was busy with work and only chatting idly on the casual place with his online friends, including Kynn. Knowing that profanities didn't work, that spamming didn't work, Kynn decided on a new tack. In front of another RPer on the RP game, she called Jim a slanty-eyed chink. The other RPer messaged me remotely in shock and said I'd better come over as I wouldn't be able to believe what just happened. I showed up and there was Kynn, who then proceeded to say (type) it directly in front of me online. I asked her how she could say such appalling things about a friend, behind his back, and Kynn's excuse? "They're just words. They can't actually hurt anyone." This flabbergasted me. I said words most certainly did hurt people. She again persisted that Jim had sustained no injury, no bruise, no cut, and that if Jim decided to get emotionally hurt by her calling him a yellow, slanty-eyed chink, that was Jim's choice to react thusly. In short, "Calling him a yellow slanty-eyed chink is just calling him a bunch of words and if he gets offended by that, the cry-baby chose to feel that way. I've done nothing wrong." (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - bishounenhideto, 2011-08-02 01:31 pm UTC

(no subject) - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-02 03:23 pm UTC

(no subject) - fernmonkey, 2011-08-02 05:17 pm UTC

(no subject) - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-03 02:54 am UTC

(no subject) - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-03 03:21 am UTC

(no subject) - menthodelic, 2011-08-02 04:17 pm UTC

(no subject) - cyndra_falin, 2011-08-03 01:49 am UTC

(no subject) - fools_game, 2011-08-03 02:32 am UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-02 01:53 pm UTC

(no subject) - pyratejenni, 2011-08-02 08:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - starkeymonster, 2011-08-04 03:55 am UTC

(no subject) - kittikattie, 2011-08-04 08:06 pm UTC

(no subject) - jackandahat, 2011-08-04 08:28 pm UTC

(Screened Post)

MOD NOTE - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-03 11:38 am UTC

Re: MOD NOTE - jackandahat, 2011-08-03 01:02 pm UTC

Re: MOD NOTE - sepiamagpie, 2011-08-03 01:05 pm UTC

Re: MOD NOTE - jackandahat, 2011-08-03 01:08 pm UTC

Re: MOD NOTE - cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-03 08:05 pm UTC

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