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	Aaaand it keeps going! ladyofviolets 2011-07-31 03:02 am UTC (link)
	Kynn keeps trying to "defend herself" (re: painting self as the victim), but ends up digging self further. Triggers everywhere, needless to say! (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 03:11 am UTC (link)

To sum up the post:

Part One: Jack's painful history dragged up and thrown out in public. (Possibly without his consent?)

Part Two: "Tell me I'm a good person or I'll kill myself!"

Part Three: He's making it up to be mean to me, and he's admitted he just wants to hurt me, and I totally didn't do it, and did I tell you that he's mean? (Also, Alexandra is mean too.) And he's not acting like a proper rape survivor. And he's mean.

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! juliansinger 2011-07-31 03:16 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, and also, um, posting private AIM logs? (I assume she didn't get permission...) Not kosher. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 03:21 am UTC (link)
	On the one hand, Jack did post Kynn's E-Mails, so it could be argued "he did it first". On the other hand, this does feel different - can't put my finger on why, but possibly because they're so much more involved and there's just so bloody much of them. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! dere 2011-07-31 03:25 am UTC (link)
	There's a big difference between the terse emails that don't reveal much personal about Kynn and the relationship and the AIM logs. Also I do not get the Morissey jab or why that's relevant. Is this a "Jack is crazy" thing? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 03:26 am UTC (link)
	nods That's true - I was just thinking that I suspect Kynn's army will pull the "Well, Jack broke confidentiality first" thing. I have no idea what they Morissey thing was about, no. That was very strange, and did seem like an attempt to discredit Jack. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! dere 2011-07-31 04:04 am UTC (link)
	I should note—I don't think the email publication is right as a matter of course, but I think it's one of those things that's a judgment call that someone has to make for themselves... I don't know if that makes any sense at all. Ends, means, community safety, you name it. waves hands You know? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going! -

jackandahat, 2011-07-31 04:31 am UTC

Re: Aaaand it keeps going! -

cereta, 2011-08-01 02:04 am UTC

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

juliansinger
2011-07-31 03:37 am UTC (link)

I honestly wasn't that much of a fan of Jack posting Kynn's emails, either. They're private communications, and despite my vague memory of alexandraerin saying, somewhere, that they'd be subpoena'd if it /did/ come to a trial, I continue to consider them private communications.

That said, I think if I were pressed to defend the email posting, it could be seen as Jack throwing light on further abusive behavior from Kynn, whereas Kynn's posting the AIMs had no such intent or outcome. Speak truth to power, kind of thing. (I /don't/ think of it that way, keep in mind.)

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! bcaluroso 2011-08-04 11:46 pm UTC (link)
	I think one of the reasons it feels different is that Kynn is a fucking rapist. I mean, even if posting those e-mails was a serious breach of confidentiality . . . he still has the moral high ground. Unless it came out that he's Jack the fucking Ripper, he is still the better person in this situation. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-08-04 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but I think individual acts can still be right or wrong (or grey-area) even if someone has the moral high ground or is in the right otherwise. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! bcaluroso 2011-08-04 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	That's true. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! ickle_snowflake 2011-07-31 03:23 am UTC (link)
	MTE. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

harrylovesron
2011-07-31 03:55 am UTC (link)

The "not acting like a proper rape survivor" thing is such a pile of steaming horseshit. People have a whole range of reactions to being raped, and none of them should be used to tell a victim they are wrong because it doesn't match whatever stereotype inside a given person's head.

It reminds me of an incident on a forum I used to mod where a member and rape survivor was talking about her experience and got dismissed by my fellow mod because she "didn't act like someone who had been raped".

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 04:20 am UTC (link)

I've been told that myself. I have no triggers around rape, and (pardon the TMI) pre-disability I enjoyed a very active sex life. Apparently being happy to have sex in my teens/young adulthood meant I couldn't have been molested as a child.

Mind, I was also told I couldn't have had an abusive childhood in general because I was too articulate. Apparently no child who was ever beaten is able to stand up for themselves and win discussions. I'm still baffled by that logic.

So yeah, I have a special hate for the "But you're not acting like a proper victim!" trope.

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

franzen
2011-07-31 05:33 am UTC (link)

I actually get the articulate thing. Even when I was at my most 'developmentally delayed' or 'failing to achieve expected targets' (based on my verbal communication skills and reading level and also just relative to everyone else -- I went through a profound and obvious isolated/weird stage), no one went, "Oh, huh, I wonder what's going on at home." It's actually staggering how many teachers and school administrative professionals (e.g., guidance counselors, nurses) missed the very obvious abused child symptoms because I was articulate. Hug on the astral plane from someone else who's been there?

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 06:10 am UTC (link)

Yeah - I was top of my class for a long time (I'm not particularly smart, I just grew up early) so clearly, I must have wonderful supportive parents. I used to have such a snarl reaction to people who called me well-brought up - I know that's the usual thing to say when a child exhibits table manners and the ability to hold a conversation, or a teenager can actually use full senetences, but it was very much self-taught and I did not want That Woman getting credit!

*hugs* I'd rather no-one knew what it was like, because it sucks, but sometimes it's nice to not be the only one!

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! napalmnacey 2011-08-01 06:20 am UTC (link)
	I FUCKING HATE THE "OH, YOU KNOW I RAPED YOU, I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF, OR I FEEL LIKE KILLING MYSELF!" SHIT. THE DUDE THAT RAPED ME SAID TO ME, "IF IT WASN'T FOR MY WIFE AND SON, I'D KILL MYSELF." AAAARGGGHHHHH!!!!! SPIT HACK SHIT DOWN ON FACE OF MEALY-MOUTHED PATHETIC SOCIOPATHS SOrry about the all-caps, it's just - AARGH. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-08-01 11:23 am UTC (link)

Caps lock away. "I'll kill myself and it'll be your fault" - either outright stated, or implied like this - was what I grew up with. I'm wondering how the fuck Kynn deluded herself that those convos make her look good.

Before, I believed Jack because I had no reason to disbelieve him, and the behaviour didn't surprise me from Kynn - with her history of boundary pushing.

After? I absolutely believe that she did it, and I'm somewhat skeptical that it was just the stuff that was explicitly posted about, because relationships don't generally get that fucked up that quick. Because that right there is an abuser, and they don't usually go for one-off showings.

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! sqbr 2011-08-01 11:39 am UTC (link)
	Yes, I was reading it thinking "Jesus, this is just like what happened with napalmnacey". Reminded me of my ex as well. This whole thing is just...blah. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! laguera25 2011-07-31 03:18 am UTC (link)
	"Rape victims should always be believed without question. Except for now, when I will cite the lack of irrefutable proof as proof of my innocence. Woe! What are we innocent rapists to do?" Ugh. I don't know any of these people, and it's still such a huge cesspit of fail and victim-blaming and strawmanning and utter DNW. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 03:22 am UTC (link)
	And not just lack of proof of something that happened in a room that presumably didn't have a camera crew in it - but him not behaving like a proper rape victim. How dare he not follow the pre-approved guidelines set out for how a rape victim is supposed to act? Clearly, he made everything up! (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

sunhawk
2011-07-31 07:47 am UTC (link)

I don't understand how Kynn could think her post was appropriate and why she replaced it with such a nasty little replacement, there was so much about what she wrote that she should be apologizing for, not pretending she's taking the ~higher ground~ and ~rising above it all~ ... she shared details of someone else's abuse without their permission! She made it sound not only like having mental problems is a pass to hurt people but also tried to guilt-trip the person she abused about self-harming herself! She played out a pretty typical "The victim isn't acting like a normal victim of rape!" tactic! If nothing else, the fact that RIGHT NOW Kynn is acting out how abusers act towards their victims and doesn't even SEE it for what it is, would make me side-eye her about being a feminist, that's a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance and mental backflipping!

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! duraniedrama 2011-07-31 05:55 pm UTC (link)
	It's depressingly typical of these sorts of !Fail situations that after a while it's no longer just the initial incident that is made of fail--it's how that person reacts to being called on it that compounds the fail. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! brown_betty 2011-08-02 05:58 am UTC (link)
	I mean, JFC, if you have a mental condition that inhibits your ability to tell consent from non-consent, maybe YOU ARE NOT YET QUALIFIED FOR SEX WITH REAL PEOPLE. I mean, sucks to be you, but nobody has yet died from wanking, and apparently you can't guarantee you won't rape someone, so tough. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

otoselkie
2011-08-12 10:56 pm UTC (link)

Thus far this business has made me want to put my foot through the wall in frustration, but reading those conversations actually made me want to weep. I could easily see Jack being extremely conflicted if he was struggling to reconcile good parts of Kynn with what she did to him (as, many abuse/rape survivors do), and then Kynn goes and puts her SURVIVAL on him? Kynn has, in my opinion, shown herself to be a prime specimen of pondscum.

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