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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 03:11 am UTC (link)

To sum up the post:

Part One: Jack's painful history dragged up and thrown out in public. (Possibly without his consent?)

Part Two: "Tell me I'm a good person or I'll kill myself!"

Part Three: He's making it up to be mean to me, and he's admitted he just wants to hurt me, and I totally didn't do it, and did I tell you that he's mean? (Also, Alexandra is mean too.) And he's not acting like a proper rape survivor. And he's mean.

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! juliansinger 2011-07-31 03:16 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, and also, um, posting private AIM logs? (I assume she didn't get permission...) Not kosher. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 03:21 am UTC (link)
	On the one hand, Jack did post Kynn's E-Mails, so it could be argued "he did it first". On the other hand, this does feel different - can't put my finger on why, but possibly because they're so much more involved and there's just so bloody much of them. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! dere 2011-07-31 03:25 am UTC (link)
	There's a big difference between the terse emails that don't reveal much personal about Kynn and the relationship and the AIM logs. Also I do not get the Morissey jab or why that's relevant. Is this a "Jack is crazy" thing? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 03:26 am UTC (link)
	nods That's true - I was just thinking that I suspect Kynn's army will pull the "Well, Jack broke confidentiality first" thing. I have no idea what they Morissey thing was about, no. That was very strange, and did seem like an attempt to discredit Jack. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! dere 2011-07-31 04:04 am UTC (link)
	I should note—I don't think the email publication is right as a matter of course, but I think it's one of those things that's a judgment call that someone has to make for themselves... I don't know if that makes any sense at all. Ends, means, community safety, you name it. waves hands You know? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-07-31 04:31 am UTC (link)
	nods Right - I'm thinking about the same, I don't think it was right for Jack to do that but I can understand why he did. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

cereta
2011-08-01 02:04 am UTC (link)

Kynn has herself posted private emails in the past. I supported it at the time, and still think she was right to do so - the person with whom she was having a very public debate suddenly and unilaterally declared it was time to go private, and I didn't think she had a right to do that. So whatever we think about it, Kynn believes posting private email is sometimes appropriate.

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

juliansinger
2011-07-31 03:37 am UTC (link)

I honestly wasn't that much of a fan of Jack posting Kynn's emails, either. They're private communications, and despite my vague memory of alexandraerin saying, somewhere, that they'd be subpoena'd if it /did/ come to a trial, I continue to consider them private communications.

That said, I think if I were pressed to defend the email posting, it could be seen as Jack throwing light on further abusive behavior from Kynn, whereas Kynn's posting the AIMs had no such intent or outcome. Speak truth to power, kind of thing. (I /don't/ think of it that way, keep in mind.)

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! bcaluroso 2011-08-04 11:46 pm UTC (link)
	I think one of the reasons it feels different is that Kynn is a fucking rapist. I mean, even if posting those e-mails was a serious breach of confidentiality . . . he still has the moral high ground. Unless it came out that he's Jack the fucking Ripper, he is still the better person in this situation. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! jackandahat 2011-08-04 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but I think individual acts can still be right or wrong (or grey-area) even if someone has the moral high ground or is in the right otherwise. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! bcaluroso 2011-08-04 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	That's true. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! ickle_snowflake 2011-07-31 03:23 am UTC (link)
	MTE. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

harrylovesron
2011-07-31 03:55 am UTC (link)

The "not acting like a proper rape survivor" thing is such a pile of steaming horseshit. People have a whole range of reactions to being raped, and none of them should be used to tell a victim they are wrong because it doesn't match whatever stereotype inside a given person's head.

It reminds me of an incident on a forum I used to mod where a member and rape survivor was talking about her experience and got dismissed by my fellow mod because she "didn't act like someone who had been raped".

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 04:20 am UTC (link)

I've been told that myself. I have no triggers around rape, and (pardon the TMI) pre-disability I enjoyed a very active sex life. Apparently being happy to have sex in my teens/young adulthood meant I couldn't have been molested as a child.

Mind, I was also told I couldn't have had an abusive childhood in general because I was too articulate. Apparently no child who was ever beaten is able to stand up for themselves and win discussions. I'm still baffled by that logic.

So yeah, I have a special hate for the "But you're not acting like a proper victim!" trope.

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

franzen
2011-07-31 05:33 am UTC (link)

I actually get the articulate thing. Even when I was at my most 'developmentally delayed' or 'failing to achieve expected targets' (based on my verbal communication skills and reading level and also just relative to everyone else -- I went through a profound and obvious isolated/weird stage), no one went, "Oh, huh, I wonder what's going on at home." It's actually staggering how many teachers and school administrative professionals (e.g., guidance counselors, nurses) missed the very obvious abused child symptoms because I was articulate. Hug on the astral plane from someone else who's been there?

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Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-07-31 06:10 am UTC (link)

Yeah - I was top of my class for a long time (I'm not particularly smart, I just grew up early) so clearly, I must have wonderful supportive parents. I used to have such a snarl reaction to people who called me well-brought up - I know that's the usual thing to say when a child exhibits table manners and the ability to hold a conversation, or a teenager can actually use full senetences, but it was very much self-taught and I did not want That Woman getting credit!

*hugs* I'd rather no-one knew what it was like, because it sucks, but sometimes it's nice to not be the only one!

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! napalmnacey 2011-08-01 06:20 am UTC (link)
	I FUCKING HATE THE "OH, YOU KNOW I RAPED YOU, I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF, OR I FEEL LIKE KILLING MYSELF!" SHIT. THE DUDE THAT RAPED ME SAID TO ME, "IF IT WASN'T FOR MY WIFE AND SON, I'D KILL MYSELF." AAAARGGGHHHHH!!!!! SPIT HACK SHIT DOWN ON FACE OF MEALY-MOUTHED PATHETIC SOCIOPATHS SOrry about the all-caps, it's just - AARGH. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Aaaand it keeps going!

jackandahat
2011-08-01 11:23 am UTC (link)

Caps lock away. "I'll kill myself and it'll be your fault" - either outright stated, or implied like this - was what I grew up with. I'm wondering how the fuck Kynn deluded herself that those convos make her look good.

Before, I believed Jack because I had no reason to disbelieve him, and the behaviour didn't surprise me from Kynn - with her history of boundary pushing.

After? I absolutely believe that she did it, and I'm somewhat skeptical that it was just the stuff that was explicitly posted about, because relationships don't generally get that fucked up that quick. Because that right there is an abuser, and they don't usually go for one-off showings.

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	Re: Aaaand it keeps going! sqbr 2011-08-01 11:39 am UTC (link)
	Yes, I was reading it thinking "Jesus, this is just like what happened with napalmnacey". Reminded me of my ex as well. This whole thing is just...blah. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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