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menthodelic
2011-08-01 03:52 pm UTC (link)

I think some of the confusion is coming from the fact that not only do Jack and alexandraerin have a D/s relationship, but also due to Jack and Kynn also having a safeword in their relationship. For a lot of people, safewords are distinctly associated with kink.

But what it comes down to in the end is that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Jack was Kynn's onlt partner or if he had dozens of others. It doesn't matter if they were as vanilla as possible or the kinkiest couple ever or anything else. Nothing in that spectrum excuses what she did.

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	jackandahat 2011-08-01 03:57 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, nothing excuses it in any situation. I think I'm just getting cranky because there's already enough "Oh noes, BDSM causes rape!" without BDSM being dragged into cases where it's not involved - and on top of that, while a lot of people are saying "That's not how it works", there are people dragging it in to cloud the water and discredit Jack. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

menthodelic
2011-08-01 05:12 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, I definitely get that. I'm just worried that if person A says, "It happened because it was a BDSM relationship" and person B says, "It WASN'T a BDSM relationship", what's implied is that if it had been a kinky relationship then person A's point would be valid. Which it wouldn't.

Person B needs to be saying, "Actually, this relationship didn't have BDSM elements, but even if it did, that wouldn't excuse what Kynn did. Rape isn't tolerated in the BDSM communities and her behaviour would still be horrible if it had been a kink situation."

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	jackandahat 2011-08-01 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	That's fair enough. I figured all the people saying "That's not how it works in BDSM" would be enough. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mefan
2011-08-01 08:39 pm UTC (link)

I certainly hope you're not directing that at me. I never said that BDSM causes rape. I never implied that BDSM causes rape. I said that people who are not aware of the nuances of BDSM have no business involving themselves in a D/s relationship. I said this under the assumption that the relationship mentioned above was a D/s relationship and that one partner was saying they were raped and the other was saying that there had been no intention. I then also mentioned that intention or not, rape is rape.

I would never condemn a lifestyle that I myself practice as something that causes harm, trauma, rape, etc., etc.

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	jackandahat 2011-08-01 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	I said "People", not "mefan". There are a lot of people being dickheads. I did not say you were one of them. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-08-01 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	I confess, I would wonder why else they would have a safeword. Terribly plain in hindsight, of course: for one party to ignore when the other tries to invoke it. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	jackandahat 2011-08-01 07:20 pm UTC (link)
	Alexandra said - I think in Shetterly's post - that it was an attempt to negotiate boundaries. Which, yeah. An advantage to kink is there's more structure for negotiating than in vanilla, it's more expected, but that only works if the person you're "negotiating" with is a decent human being. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-08-01 09:57 pm UTC (link)
	yeah, this is one of those cases where I trip over my usual assumption that both parties are sane, decent people. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

menthodelic
2011-08-01 08:10 pm UTC (link)

My partner and I did use a safeword for a while in non-kink situations after I was assaulted. I'm someone who says "no" to mean "not there" or "that's too hard" or "I don't want to do that; I want to do this instead", and we were both worried that "No, this is triggering me" might get confused with all of that. Hence, the safeword.

Before that though, I had only associated them with D/s situations.

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ickle_snowflake
2011-08-01 08:36 pm UTC (link)

My current partner and I have a safe word for reasons similar to menthodelic's. In the past, in an abusive relationship, I've tried to set one up because he would make excuses for ignoring "no" and "don't", saying things like "how do I know you're not going to follow it with 'don't stop'?" and basically trying to make me feel like it was my fault for being unclear. He couldn't do that with a random word like "raspberry" or "teapot".

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	napalmnacey 2011-08-02 06:09 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I have a chronic pain condition that sex exacerbates, so my dude and I have a safe word so that he knows I'm in actual pain. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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