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kaen ([info]kaen) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-08-06 02:15:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Batgirl at the SDCC
I'm surprised nobody's posted about this one yet.

San Diego Comic Con happened a couple of weeks back, and of course people from DC comics were talking about their series and trying to drum up support for the universe-wide reboot that will be happening next month.

As you'd probably guess, given that they're wiping out the decades long histories of many beloved characters, a lot of people are unhappy with them for a lot of reasons, but the events of this post are focused on one specific issue; people have been noticing that a lot of women seem to be vanishing as part of the reboot. Not just in the pages of the comics, but in real life as well. Women have gone from making up 12% of their creator base (not exactly a great number to begin with) to under 2%. Which'd be three, total.

Kyrax2 (who you'll see referred to as 'Batgirl' a lot in articles in reference to the costume she was wearing) was attending SDCC with her daughter and asked questions about these issues at a few of the DC panels. She was met with evasive and dismissive answers from the panelists and increasing hostility from the crowds of fans. DC has podcasts available of the panels, check the New 52 and Justice League panels on the 22nd and New 52 again on the 23rd. (And to that I'll add a quote from a comment on comicbookGRRL; "Newly-infamous ‘Batgirl’ and I were talking about the audio recording last night, and how it doesn’t quite get the whole experience across. You had to see Didio standing on his toes, leaning over a podium from atop a raised stage, looming over a 4′ 10” woman. His body language was all about bullying and belittlement. When he decided things were done and she shouldn’t talk anymore, he rocked back from the podium and looked away.")

Among other things Dan Didio, the man in charge at DC, said that women should submit their work if they want to be represented at DC, failing to mention that DC doesn't accept unsolicited submissions, (whoops! That one was actually Grant Morrison, though Didio agreed with the answer) and claimed that he'd put together the best team possible for the New 52 which (you'll see in the links to come) many people find hard to believe when that team includes people like Rob Liefeld while artists like Amanda Conner (who had already worked for the company) were nowhere to be seen.

And then several of the major comics news sites went on the report Kyrax2 as being a big old bully picking on the poor little major comic book company. Yeah.

DC Women Kicking Ass provides links to many of those reports, and followed it up with an interview with Kyrax2 letting her tell her side of the story.

This article at Fempop, beyond talking about what happened at SDCC, gives more background about what's happening with women in DC comics for anyone who wants more background on where this is coming from, as does this one at comicbookGRRRL (who also wrote an article about it for SciFiNow).

There are two posts up at Websnark one a pretty quick mention of it and then a more in-depth reaction which has been linked around a lot.

And finally DC released a statement acknowledging the complaints although they don't apologize for being so dismissive about them to begin with.

This probably goes without saying, but expect to find plenty of sexism, mansplaining, and general not-getting-itness in the comments sections.


(Post a new comment)


[info]sailorcoruscant
2011-08-06 04:00 pm UTC (link)
And yet this fiasco has inspired the womanthology kickstarter project, which is putting together a massive collection of original comics about women by women at all levels in the industry (including Gail Simone) and has raised enough money to see copies of the collection donated to school libraries and other fun goals.

So it's not all bad news for girls in comics.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]gretel
2011-08-06 06:48 pm UTC (link)
Um. I believe you'll find the womanthology kickstarter project has been around longer than this most recent fiasco. Though I suspect the most recent surge in donations may be related.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sailorcoruscant, 2011-08-08 12:53 am UTC

[info]kaen
2011-08-07 08:52 am UTC (link)
Even if that project wasn't inspired by it, I do love it when someone's reaction to a situation like this is to say "Fuck you" in the form of sitting down to create something wonderful.

I'll admit, more articles I read about the situation the more tempted I became to do some work on this idea for a superhero webcomic whose main character is a woman that I've had kicking around for awhile. It's never going anywhere until I've improved my art enough to reliably draw muscular bodies half-decently, but at least I can work on scripts!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]notjo
2011-08-06 07:22 pm UTC (link)
Oh my gosh, that "acknowledgement" from DC is so terrible. "Oh, but we have hired women in the past, have these strong female characters (but we're getting rid of all the women of colour), so obviously we're not sexist. We're totes going to change the gender ratio of creators in the future, too! Just don't ask us to commit to anything and don't speculate on why we didn't just say so! :D!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2011-08-07 12:15 am UTC (link)
"But we have lots of _____ friends!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kaen
2011-08-07 01:04 am UTC (link)
Yeah, and I've seen some people act like it was a great outstretched hand, which confuses me (I mean, confuses me when it's one of the feminists who've been commenting about it; I totally understand it when I see it from male fans who want us uppity women to shut up about it already) when it's really really not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]derryderrydown
2011-08-07 10:43 pm UTC (link)
These strong female characters who are having their costumes cut down to strategically placed strips of fabric and string. UGLY AS FUCK strategically placed strips of fabric and string.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2011-08-08 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 06:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-08-08 07:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-08 06:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nursewretched, 2011-08-09 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2011-08-14 04:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bemysty, 2011-08-09 03:16 am UTC

[info]rubymellon
2011-08-06 11:17 pm UTC (link)
This clusterfuck has been so frustrating.

I want to support the new Batwoman book, but they've delayed it so long that I'm now half-expecting DC to completely steamroll over it now that they've got Barbara Gordon as Batgirl again (ugh) under the justification that it's "too confusing" for new readers that there are two different redheaded women as Batgirl and Batwoman. (but four black-haired guys as Robin and co-existing is totally fine, dammit DC)

(Reply to this)


[info]evilsqueakers
2011-08-07 03:04 am UTC (link)
On the ComicbookGRRRL article, I bet Jennifer Estep would love to write a comic book, even a short run or a mini-series, since she has the Bigtime series. Which is a kind of homage-spoof on a genre she loves. And I'd be damn interested in reading her female characters. Karma Girl, Fiera, and Bella are all strong females. They're fierce in their own way, and independent, without taking away from anyone else. And then there's Lulu, along with the female superubervillains.

She even mentions some of the DC characters in the book, as in just 'duh, of course they're in Gotham or Metropolis, no biggie' way.

But of course DC can't be bothered to see if authors are interested. Ever. And of course, all the men saying, "Don't be aggressive!" don't understand the not-so-funny humor in that statement while saying it's sexist to point out the men suck at writing women, as has been pointed out.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]disdainful_soul
2011-08-07 04:00 am UTC (link)
And of course there's Carrie Vaughn and Chelsea M. Campbell. And there's also a couple of other superhero novels that are read by girls - some even feature female leads, despite being written by dudes!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 01:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 01:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 02:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 02:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2011-08-08 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2011-08-14 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2011-08-09 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-08 06:09 pm UTC

[info]thoms
2011-08-07 03:41 am UTC (link)
OH JUDD WINICK WHY DID YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT.

*sob* I liked him, and my copy of Pedro & Me is something I treasure, but... GAH.

(Reply to this)


[info]mneiai
2011-08-07 05:40 am UTC (link)
Wow, Didio being a misogynistic asshole, didn't see that one coming. *sigh*

This sucks so bad, DC has a universe with so many females with so much potential and as a major company could do great things for women writers/artists trying to get more exposure in comic books. Instead they just give more work to traces-his-own-porno-pics Liefeld. Ugh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sgaana
2011-08-07 06:28 am UTC (link)
Wait, does Liefeld also trace porno pics? I thought that was Greg Land. Liefeld is the who just can't actually draw. (Yet he continues to be given work.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-08-07 07:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-07 11:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-08-07 03:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bemysty, 2011-08-09 03:20 am UTC

[info]cyan_aura
2011-08-07 06:21 pm UTC (link)
I'll just leave this right here.

http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chikane
2011-08-07 07:52 am UTC (link)
So, guys can complain about everything, regardless how ridiculous it is. And that's their right.

But the moment a woman does, she's omghorrible and abuses poor, innocent, weak DC, the evil feminazi bully.

Yeah right. Sorry, DC, but picking Rob Liefeld pretty much proves you didn't pick the "best guys for the job". Even *I* know of his work thanks to Linkara.

I'll also never understand the meme that male comic fans can't like female characters. http://yoshii.nickyzai.com/images/2011/april/2adfcd4dbedeb9e729a6b860a4fd5fc9.jpg seems to be like a superheroine, and yet guys like her quite a bit. Seems odd to me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]agrias
2011-08-07 08:25 am UTC (link)
I am a frequenter of comic book message boards, those wretched hives of scum and villainy, and I have had male comic fans flat out say they don't like female characters and don't see a real need for superheroines to exist.

It's not exactly a typical position, but it's common enough guys feel free to admit this openly without fear of getting jumped on in mainstream comic spaces. (Or the companion opinion, which is basically that we need girls around for the T&A, but it's silly to want them to do much else.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2011-08-07 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-07 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 12:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-08 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 12:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-08 01:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 01:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-08 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-09 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-09 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sparkysrevenge, 2011-08-08 12:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-08 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-08 06:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]agrias, 2011-08-08 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2011-08-08 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-08 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-08-08 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2011-08-08 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]finchbird, 2011-08-09 06:12 am UTC

[info]misachan
2011-08-07 08:59 am UTC (link)
I gave up on Didio having anything worthwhile to say about female characters when he announced that all former Robins would be getting featured books in the first wave of the reboot and then Stephanie Brown was nowhere in sight. Apparently we should have known he meant the BOY Robins.

(Reply to this)


[info]ereshkigal
2011-08-07 11:27 am UTC (link)
Oh, DC. The reason I swore off buying your crap anymore? You killed off my favorite female heroine for shock value and kept insisting on putting my favorite guy hero in a romantic relationship when he didn't need one.

This bullshit right here? Is only confirming my decision.

Also, another fucking reboot to try and entice new readers? Gimme a break. The multitude of reboots they've done before didn't encourage new readers, why the hell would this one be any different?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-07 12:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-08-07 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-08 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-08-08 07:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 07:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-08 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 02:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-09 02:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-08-09 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-08-09 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-10 05:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2011-08-10 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]risha, 2011-08-07 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2011-08-07 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]risha, 2011-08-07 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2011-08-08 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]risha, 2011-08-08 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2011-08-08 06:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ereshkigal, 2011-08-08 10:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2011-08-08 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]derryderrydown, 2011-08-15 03:03 pm UTC

[info]kumquat_of_doom
2011-08-07 08:34 pm UTC (link)
Ugh. Fuck DC. Just ... fuck DC.

I'll keep buying Batgirl up until the reboot, and then fuck it, I'm not buying ANYTHING by them.

(I've already said 'fuck you' to Marvel after they cancelled Runaways again, stopped using Northstar after finally brought him back, and killed off Nightcrawler.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 07:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bride_of_lister, 2011-08-09 08:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zebeckras, 2011-08-09 07:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-10 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zebeckras, 2011-08-09 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2011-08-09 07:20 pm UTC

[info]hilohello
2011-08-08 04:48 am UTC (link)
God, it's like the universe is hitting me over the head with the message "You need to get off your ass and make stuff!"

That said, this makes me glad most of the comics I read are usually more than 30 years old.

(Reply to this)


[info]female_fanboy
2011-08-08 04:58 am UTC (link)
Somewhat of an accuracy nitpick: It was actually Grant Morrison that told women to submit their work, not Didio. Oh, Didio was still a colossal ass from the audio I've heard, but we best be blaming him for the stuff he actually did (Like the, "We're hiring the best." The best apparently includes Rob Liefeld, because only terrible artist draw spines in alignment.)

But yeah, DC's been a pain in the ass about this whole thing. Especially their stubborn refusal to acknowledge that girls actually can like superheroes and that they might be a viable demographic if they don't actively alienate them like they're doing now. Sunrise can sure attest to that right now.

(I'm debating the boycott. The thing is, I was only planning to buy Demon Knights and Blue Beetle, and I have the cynical hunch that DC would interpret the low sales of those two books as, "Whelp, looks like nobody wants hispanic protagonists or mostly female hero teams. Back to straight white men!" I guess I have a month to figure it out.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-08-08 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]argylespy, 2011-08-08 07:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2011-08-08 08:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]argylespy, 2011-08-08 08:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lissibith, 2011-08-09 02:14 pm UTC
The only thing that's important to me. - [info]platedlizard, 2011-08-10 11:28 pm UTC
Re: The only thing that's important to me. - [info]lissibith, 2011-08-11 12:26 am UTC
Re: The only thing that's important to me. - [info]platedlizard, 2011-08-11 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2011-08-09 05:27 am UTC

[info]evilsqueakers
2011-08-08 06:35 am UTC (link)
The Anthology closed several hours ago, with like 4 times the requested amount. I really wish the Chance line would have happened. I think it'd be excellent to have such a source and allow new talent into the pool via that method.

(Reply to this)


[info]napalmnacey
2011-08-08 07:10 am UTC (link)
Aaand this is why I shy away from mainstream comics. That and the money. I've had to draw and write the comic characters I wanted to see myself. It's sad, cause I'm passionate about comics and think it's an incredible art form. I just feel entirely shut out of the genre due to my gender.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 07:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 08:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 08:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 08:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-08-08 08:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 08:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]innervoice_chan, 2011-08-08 02:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2011-08-08 03:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2011-08-08 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]innervoice_chan, 2011-08-08 02:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2011-08-08 02:39 pm UTC

[info]white_tean
2011-08-08 02:47 pm UTC (link)
In other news, real life female superhero Nancy Wake, the White Mouse died yesterday. The wikipedia article really doesn't even do her justice - watching interviews with her was amazing. Killed Germans with her bare hands, among other things.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyan_aura, 2011-08-10 08:54 am UTC

[info]phosfate
2011-08-08 03:40 pm UTC (link)
"We raped Sue Dibney and set her on fire, but it was extremely profitable artistically valid. Just like Harley Quinn's new costume."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2011-08-08 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2011-08-11 12:07 am UTC

 
   
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