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kaen ([info]kaen) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-08-06 02:15:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Batgirl at the SDCC
I'm surprised nobody's posted about this one yet.

San Diego Comic Con happened a couple of weeks back, and of course people from DC comics were talking about their series and trying to drum up support for the universe-wide reboot that will be happening next month.

As you'd probably guess, given that they're wiping out the decades long histories of many beloved characters, a lot of people are unhappy with them for a lot of reasons, but the events of this post are focused on one specific issue; people have been noticing that a lot of women seem to be vanishing as part of the reboot. Not just in the pages of the comics, but in real life as well. Women have gone from making up 12% of their creator base (not exactly a great number to begin with) to under 2%. Which'd be three, total.

Kyrax2 (who you'll see referred to as 'Batgirl' a lot in articles in reference to the costume she was wearing) was attending SDCC with her daughter and asked questions about these issues at a few of the DC panels. She was met with evasive and dismissive answers from the panelists and increasing hostility from the crowds of fans. DC has podcasts available of the panels, check the New 52 and Justice League panels on the 22nd and New 52 again on the 23rd. (And to that I'll add a quote from a comment on comicbookGRRL; "Newly-infamous ‘Batgirl’ and I were talking about the audio recording last night, and how it doesn’t quite get the whole experience across. You had to see Didio standing on his toes, leaning over a podium from atop a raised stage, looming over a 4′ 10” woman. His body language was all about bullying and belittlement. When he decided things were done and she shouldn’t talk anymore, he rocked back from the podium and looked away.")

Among other things Dan Didio, the man in charge at DC, said that women should submit their work if they want to be represented at DC, failing to mention that DC doesn't accept unsolicited submissions, (whoops! That one was actually Grant Morrison, though Didio agreed with the answer) and claimed that he'd put together the best team possible for the New 52 which (you'll see in the links to come) many people find hard to believe when that team includes people like Rob Liefeld while artists like Amanda Conner (who had already worked for the company) were nowhere to be seen.

And then several of the major comics news sites went on the report Kyrax2 as being a big old bully picking on the poor little major comic book company. Yeah.

DC Women Kicking Ass provides links to many of those reports, and followed it up with an interview with Kyrax2 letting her tell her side of the story.

This article at Fempop, beyond talking about what happened at SDCC, gives more background about what's happening with women in DC comics for anyone who wants more background on where this is coming from, as does this one at comicbookGRRRL (who also wrote an article about it for SciFiNow).

There are two posts up at Websnark one a pretty quick mention of it and then a more in-depth reaction which has been linked around a lot.

And finally DC released a statement acknowledging the complaints although they don't apologize for being so dismissive about them to begin with.

This probably goes without saying, but expect to find plenty of sexism, mansplaining, and general not-getting-itness in the comments sections.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]ereshkigal
2011-08-07 11:27 am UTC (link)
Oh, DC. The reason I swore off buying your crap anymore? You killed off my favorite female heroine for shock value and kept insisting on putting my favorite guy hero in a romantic relationship when he didn't need one.

This bullshit right here? Is only confirming my decision.

Also, another fucking reboot to try and entice new readers? Gimme a break. The multitude of reboots they've done before didn't encourage new readers, why the hell would this one be any different?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_tean
2011-08-07 12:33 pm UTC (link)
They definitely don't seem to be doing anything to tap into a wider market. I'd love to read some great fantasy/sci-fi comics, but there aren't enough comics out there that pass the bechdel test and have art that's in a less generic style which adds to the story. Or features women that don't fight crime in high heels.

I kind of would love to see a "I Will Not Fight Crime in High Heels" anthology. Really looking forward to this Womanthology too, hopefully it'll help build momentum for further projects.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cyan_aura
2011-08-07 06:24 pm UTC (link)
I would buy that anthology on the title alone. And maybe the cover art :-)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_tean
2011-08-08 03:00 pm UTC (link)
I'm just amazed at how unrealistic most fight scenes involving women are, especially in TV series. There are so many shows with women fighting crime in high heels and *never* discussing the a) HORRIBLE PAIN or b) twisting their ankles. Or taping band-aids to their feet in advance to cut down on blisters.
It drives me mad.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cyan_aura
2011-08-08 07:11 pm UTC (link)
I'm of the opinion that anyone who creates shoes like that should be made to wear them for extended periods of time. See how many men can make it through the day without blubbering.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]napalmnacey
2011-08-08 07:06 am UTC (link)
I'm working on some comics that would pass the Bechdel test, that have fully-formed women characters in them and are sci-fi/fantasy, but they're not out yet. Some day, I promise!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_tean
2011-08-08 02:53 pm UTC (link)
Cool, look forward to it. :)
I have something that should pass the Bechdel test too, but it's been languishing for a while and I'm starting to think it may turn into a choose your own adventure story. Just because I love alternate universes.

I wonder if it's the right time for a creative backlash community on journalfen, where people can post links, recommendations, and bits of their work in an attempt to soothe people's frustrations with all the dross out there.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]napalmnacey
2011-08-08 02:58 pm UTC (link)
That would be awesome and I would be all over that comm like white on rice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_tean
2011-08-09 02:54 pm UTC (link)
Okay, here it is. :)
Pretty bare at the moment, and I haven't set up many guidelines yet because I don't have mod experience, but I can add things as it goes along.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sistercoyote
2011-08-09 09:11 pm UTC (link)
Now I'm trying to figure out a) how to pitch this when I don't have any contacts or b) how to convince an overworked friend of mine (who has some contacts) to take on another project, even if she'd be on there in name only...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sistercoyote
2011-08-09 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Also, I think we should write a list like the Evil Overlord List:

I will not fight crime in high heels.

If my costume covers less than 50% of my body (90% if I'm not invulnerable), I will fire my stylist and hire Edna Mode.

Skintight leather is fine as long as it's kept supple. However, simple clothing I can move in without worrying about splitting the seams or cutting off circulation is better.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]white_tean
2011-08-10 05:41 am UTC (link)
Excellent. :)
I love the "90% if I'm not invulnerable" bit. I have a male friend who plays Fallout(?) running around as a naked woman, and takes immunizations against radiation, which are magically as good as a hazmat suit.

Also, I just started a new community, because I think that there should be a place where people can recommend works like this, and share things they're working on as well.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sistercoyote
2011-08-10 06:48 pm UTC (link)
I mentioned this somewhere else, but years ago in Dragon Magazine was a comic that had a buxom woman sitting at the table in her chainmail bikini, across from a dwarf wearing sensible clothing, and the caption was "At least I was wearing my armor!" (and there were arrows stuck throughout the bikini).

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]risha
2011-08-07 03:23 pm UTC (link)
My understanding is that they are mostly trying to lure back the people who used to buy back in the glory days of the 90s? Of course, that 1. includes a shitload of speculators who weren't actually all that interested to begin with, and 2. was at a time when you got more pages for a heck of a lot less money. And they were an expensive hobby then.

I've been tempted to get back into comics for a long time now (I was forced to go cold turkey in the late 90s/early 00s for financial reasons). Every time I wistfully flip through one in the bookstore, though, I go "$3.99 for just that?". But I find myself actually less tempted to get back into it with this reboot, which is nice!

I still consider myself a comic book fan, just one, that, ya'know, sticks to rereading her vast back catalog.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]greenling
2011-08-07 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I remember $1.50 being a little expensive for a single comic when I was a kid in the 90s. You know, since you have to buy so many to keep up, and it had been 75c each relatively recently. Here I'm thinking, must be like two bucks now-

"$3.99 for just that?"

Eyebrow raises out to infinity.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]risha
2011-08-07 09:23 pm UTC (link)
I got curious if I was misremembering, so I checked the last few weeks' issues online. It looks like the average cover price for a DC title is $2.99, with special issues and variant covers at $3.99 or $4.99. Marvel and Image start at $2.99 too, but have some $3.50s and more $3.99s. Dark Horse seems to be mostly $3.50s.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]airawyn
2011-08-08 12:01 am UTC (link)
Marvel and DC recently dialed back their prices to 2.99 (DC had a big promotion about it), probably because people have been buying less comics. Of course, they cut the number of pages in an issue when they cut the price.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2011-08-08 12:43 am UTC (link)
I -thought- that was a dollar less than what they used to be. Glad I'm not misremembering. I like more than 20 pages of about maybe 1 page in total for 3.99 so it was one reason I gave them up. The art was hella pretty and I bought a few to have the covers framed once I get my own place, but other than that...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]risha
2011-08-08 01:59 am UTC (link)
So let's see: 52 new #1s.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt that they'll at be the standard $2.99, instead of $3.99 because of their status as a #1, that works out to $155.48 for the entire collection. Sad as it is to say, that sounds... well, not entirely reasonable, but less horrific than I thought before checking average coverage prices. I used to drop about $100 a month all told back in the bad old days.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2011-08-08 02:11 am UTC (link)
Yeah, add in the extra buck that was taken away and it's close to $200. I wonder if DC didn't decide to lower the prices in anticipation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]airawyn
2011-08-08 06:48 am UTC (link)
Justice League #1 will be 3.99, 4.99 if you want the print/digital double pack!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ereshkigal
2011-08-08 10:51 am UTC (link)
LOL! Well, I'd kinda fit into the people they were trying to lure back then (other than being a woman anyway). Though, I was buying their comics back in the 80s too. I can tell you right now, they're not going to get any of those people back. The Death of Superman and Nightfall were huge, news coverage and everything. They were also incredibly boring. We knew from the getgo that neither of those would last (unlike what they did with poor Supergirl). They also included new, forgettable villains doing all the dirty work. The reason people remember what happened with Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd? Because it was the Joker. Nobody gives a shit about Bane and Doomsday.

That's not to say they didn't have some good stories in the 90s. Unfortunately, those stories tended to get left in the dust thanks to megacrossovers, changing writers, etc. And then when they started the reboot crap it was such horrible cognitive dissonance in the regular books. Legion of Super-Heroes in particular got shit on so bad. Asides from having to come up with a new character to replace Supergirl and having to redo Mon-El's backstory (neither of them really worked, btw), they completely dropped all of their storylines when Zero Hour happened and remade the entire thing from the ground up. It was AWFUL. And I say this even with liking how the reboot went. It was still a horrible breakoff from one interesting storyline to the next.

And then there was Wonder Woman. Oh man, Wonder Woman. They'd already rebooted her earlier, and yet they still managed to make the transition really mindboggling. The Greek Gods had featured heavily in that particular reboot and then a megacrossover comes along and suddenly she'd never dealt with them before. What the hell? It made absolutely no sense.

And the Titans. Dear god, what they did with the Titans. Considering the bullshit they kept pulling with Raven, Starfire and Donna, they're lucky I didn't drop them sooner. But between killing off half the team (what they did with Jericho was completely unforgivable imo) and the Team Titans fiasco (which was so damn stupid), I dropped it before I even gave up on DC. It was just awful.

Why the hell would people keep reading after DC pulls crap like that? Why in god's name would yet another reboot make them want to come back? Reboots have always been part of the fucking problem. You're reading an interesting storyline and then BAM!, here come another reboot to destroy it. Yeah, no. There are much better things to spend my money on. And they make sense, unlike DC's crap.

... Wow, I can really get my rant on with this stuff. And I didn't even get into my complete disdain with what they did with Robin and Spoiler. If I ever open that can of worms I may never stop.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]female_fanboy
2011-08-08 05:47 pm UTC (link)
Also, another fucking reboot to try and entice new readers? Gimme a break. The multitude of reboots they've done before didn't encourage new readers, why the hell would this one be any different?

No, no! Don't you see? This time will be different because they gave Wonder Woman pants!

... And then they took them away.

And then they gave them back again.

And then they took them away again.

And then they... Uh, where was I going with this again?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]derryderrydown
2011-08-15 03:03 pm UTC (link)
The One Year Later reboot managed to lose me completely. "Wait, the stories I've been following have stopped? And now there's entirely different stories and I've got to learn the characters all over again? Fuck that - BYE BYE!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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