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	sandglass 2011-10-26 07:27 am UTC (link)
	I haven't seen it, got a link? Years ago I actually though Blizzard was pretty decent. Now I am full of rage at the mention of their games. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2011-10-26 07:35 am UTC (link)
	I think they used to be pretty decent. Something happened -- they go out of their way in Cataclysm to tell offensive jokes, and I can't recall that being the case with previous iterations of the game. I think they must have lost some good people and hired different people who are utter douches. (Reply to this)(Parent)

the__ivorytower
2011-10-26 07:40 am UTC (link)

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<a href="http://worldofwarcraft.livejournal.com/8638464.html"Sure do</a>. I had to make sure it wasn't locked. I don't blame you for not seeing this. If you thought the one or two people on d_g or w_l were bad...

What makes me really angry is that I actually thought it was wonderful and novel when Blizzard seemed to have interesting female characters, but things have gone steadily downhill since... it's hard to say when.

Incidentally, despite the con being supposedly family friendly, their musical acts in the past have been Ozzy Ozbourne and Jack Black. Ozzy caused a backlash that required very clear warnings at the next con that the concert would not be appropriate for younger viewers... but it's also the closing ceremony. GG, guys. I figured the Foo Fighters would actually be fairly safe.

The worst part is that we had the BlizzCon stream and I planned to watch the tournaments and non-WoW panel stuff, since I was getting MMO-Champion updates (and listening to the devs talking about the lore makes me depressed), but now I don't even want to do that. The other worst part is that I just locked in for a year because of the D3 deal.

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	the__ivorytower 2011-10-26 07:41 am UTC (link)
	I also wish JF had an edit button. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sandglass 2011-10-26 07:43 am UTC (link)
	The other worst part is that I just locked in for a year because of the D3 deal. I hear a lot of people are in that situation. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the__ivorytower 2011-10-26 07:45 am UTC (link)
	Yeah. I was also stupidly excited about pandas. The shine is now gone. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2011-10-26 08:44 am UTC (link)
	Most of the very same people, I think you would find, have also been complaining loudest about the pandas. I keep coming back to the C.S. Lewis quote (the boiled-down version of which is, "actual grown-ups don't have to try so hard to prove they are"). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2011-10-26 08:48 am UTC (link)
	I cringed when I heard about the pandas, but that's because I know Blizzard as it is now will make them into a joke that's offensive on multiple levels to multiple groups. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eleutheria 2011-10-26 11:03 am UTC (link)
	As it is now? As opposed to six years ago when they were making Trolls into a joke about Vodou? Or Tauren into a joke about Native Americans? Yes, the Pandaren will likely have cringeworthy Asian stereotypes, but let's not pretend this is anything new for Blizz. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2011-10-26 11:04 am UTC (link)
	They did not treat those races as jokes. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eleutheria
2011-10-26 11:17 am UTC (link)

I don't think they're going to intend to treat the Pandaren as a joke, either.

(And "come get the voodoo" and the voodoo doctor who transforms you into various animals after a lowbie questline aren't jokes? They seemed like they were meant to be jokes to me. Not that it matters-- the point still remains that Blizz has never been culturally sensitive, so I just don't get what anybody thinks is different now.)

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the__ivorytower
2011-10-26 05:02 pm UTC (link)

The only thing I can think of is that originally the Pandaren were going to be Japanese-themed and the Chinese government freaked out at them until they changed them to be Chinese-themed, and interestingly, one of the threads I saw was complaining that this expansion was designed to appeal to the Chinese. Certainly, this one might not require two years to release like Wrath.

(None of this is a defense, and 'asians' have been in the game before: aloof, foreign, beautiful fetish bait, we name thee elf.)

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	ecchaniz0r 2011-10-26 06:54 pm UTC (link)
	...And suddenly, a lightbulb goes on, and I now think I know why they de-Amazon'd the Night Elf women. =_= (Reply to this)(Parent)

lovecoconuts
2011-10-27 05:32 am UTC (link)

The Pandaren culture was originally based on Japanese culture? I can see why the Chinese government said NO! Mainland China is very serious business about pandas. Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind if the Panderans were more Japanese than Chinese, but neither could I disagree with the folks who would consider such as offensive to the Chinese. Had indeed Blizzard stuck with Karate Panderans instead of Kung Fu Pandas, I would be all "Blizzard, either you're really ignorant about Sino-Japanese relations or you're just trolling."

That said, even though it's very unlikely I will reactivate my WoW account, I am RELIEVED that they didn't westernized the pandas.

As for the complaints about MoP being made to appeal to China, yes - I've come across such as well, and I had to keep myself from informing-reminding the complainers that WoW has more or as many subscribers in Asia than both in US and Europe combined. Last I read, it was 2m in US, 2m in Europe. 5m in Asia. Something like that.

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the__ivorytower
2011-10-27 05:43 am UTC (link)

Yup, saw that myself. I genuinly hope the people of China *do* like it. I hope it's *not* tired, offensive stereotypes. I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed... because I'm going to be playing the shit out of any expansion if I want to level all of my characters.

(And let me tell you, Cata content on 14, going on 15, and eventually the full 18 characters? Fucking tired.)

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lovecoconuts
2011-10-27 06:31 am UTC (link)

Lol, though I do think you are crazee (in a very nice way) for leveling 14-18 WoW characters, I haz also much respect for the effort you're putting into it. It may just be gaming, but it's not easy. Requires a lot of love and commitment.

I wouldn't worry much about Chinese stereotypes and such, cause the Chinese market is just too damn important to Blizzard to risk their panda expansion being offensive enough to ban. I also wouldn't be surprised if every thing in the expansion was already reviewed by Chinese consultants personally recommended by the PRC.

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eleutheria
2011-10-26 11:06 am UTC (link)

I thought that whole announcement was a letdown. The WoW Insider podcast had me hoping against hope for another outer-space excursion. We could have had the Burning Legion homeworld! Instead, we get furry pandas, tired Asian stereotypes, and what will probably be Forest Environment #3,742. Neat new architecture taken from the pagodas of... nope, did that already with the Naga.

I was leaning toward the 1-yr pass, but now I just don't know. There are an awful lot of good Xbox games I've never played...

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	the__ivorytower 2011-10-26 05:03 pm UTC (link)
	New update, apology from L90ETC. Not enough in my mind, but there was no if. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ecchaniz0r
2011-10-26 07:10 pm UTC (link)

Metal fans are super fucking naive about some stuff. Some of them are just right-up assholes who cheer this shit on as it expresses what thery think, but from what I've seen the vast majority of them are painfully naive about shit like this. They really do not understand that 'over-the-top offensive' shit like that is not as unrealistic and out-there as they think it is.

They cannot comprehend the fact that people will say shit like that to me, and mean it, and think it is OKAY to do so, because I date another woman. If I tell them this, you can hear the record-needle scratch. And then they get defensive.

To them homophobia is gay bashing and murder, not their idol indulging in what they believe is over-the-top trashtalk that's clearly not for srs.

They really do not get it.

Hey Cannibal Corpse? If you washout kings really want to fucking be over-the-top start taking a couple pages out of Gwar's book. Dumbasses. Then MAYBE I'll accept your stupid asses as being fucking over-the-top. =_= As it is you sound like douchebros on trade chat.

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	the__ivorytower 2011-10-26 07:12 pm UTC (link)
	I'm cis, straight and white, so I can't understand or experience all of it, but I've still been verbally and emotionally abused. I've still been sexually harassed. This is the kind of thing those people would say. This is the kind of thing that makes me want to hide in my room and never come out again. It's not funny, it's not a joke. Intent is fucking magical. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ecchaniz0r
2011-10-26 07:22 pm UTC (link)

Yes, yes, yes. This.

*hugs*

I'm a survivor of verbal and emotional abuse; it was at home, it was at school, and the church that ran school basically encouraged it because I am a woman. No one ever lifted a hand to me. I have no scars except the ones from the heinous case of chicken pox I got once.

But no scars doesn't make what happened to me, or you, or anyone else less real kthxfuckingBAI, skeptics.

I'm torn between the urge to hide in my room, and the urge to start burning things XD;

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	catmoran 2011-10-26 07:25 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I first heard about this roughly three hours after I signed up for the annual contract. At least I'm in a super awesome guild that would never tolerate homophobia (or a long list of other -isms and -phobias.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

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