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amy_wolf
2012-01-25 01:04 am UTC (link)

So let me get this straight: is completely beside the point and bad and wrong, but Alexds1 was able to focus on Sherlock Holmes's sexuality long enough to come up with the absolutely definitive one and only answer to the question, and that answer happened to be something where you're not supposed to categorize him as straight, gay, bi, or aseuxal, but as a "perfectly rational man"?

And there is absolutely no room for interpretation with regards to his feelings for Watson or Irene Adler (who, despite being part of the original canon he loves so much is now only in it because network executives are so insistent on making women an important part of stories)?

And it's "almost tragic" that the fan community relies more on emotional impulses when enjoying a hobby than Sherlock Holmes does when solving crime?

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ekaterinv
2012-01-25 01:15 am UTC (link)

The weird thing about that (okay, one weird thing) is that Sherlock Holmes was written as tragic. Watson felt sorry for him. Partly Watson wanted Sherlock to get married, because Watson was so happy being married, he couldn't understand why anyone else would not be, if married to a good and intelligent person. But more legitimately, Watson felt sorry for Sherlock's inability to connect intimately with other human beings. And then there was that whole drug abuse thing.

Sherlock Holmes was not supposed to be a role model.

Oh AND women were always an important part of the Sherlock stories. The Red-Headed League is the only one I can think of that didn't have a woman in a central role.

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	amy_wolf 2012-01-25 01:23 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, Sherlock Holmes did not seem like he was being presented as an ideal example of how to go through life. An interesting character, yes, but if someone says "You're not being very much like Sherlock Holmes here!" I'm not going to lose sleep over it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sandyclaws68 2012-01-25 02:23 pm UTC (link)
	. . .Sherlock Holmes was written as tragic. THIS. Times a kajillion. When oh when are ~~asshole fans~~ people going to finally accept that fact? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	napalmnacey 2012-01-25 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	You mean they miss it? I mean, it's a pretty heavy subtext in all the Sherlock Holmes adaptations I've ever seen, particularly Gatiss and Moffat's incarnation. I mean, the entire series screams, "THIS MAN IS ROYALLY FUCKED UP, LOOK HOW WATSON GIVES HIS LIFE MEANING!" (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	phosfate 2012-01-26 02:04 am UTC (link)
	Pretty much every actor who plays Holmes says something along the lines of, "Jesus, are you kidding me? If he didn't have Watson he'd work himself to death/OD on coke/become a serial killer/eat bug powder and die." Not in those exact words, obviously. SAFETY TIP: Do not eat bug powder. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tehrin 2012-01-26 05:25 am UTC (link)
	Keating's chief ingredient was pyrenthrum. Another common disinfectant involved chloride of lime (bleach) mixed with water. Don't ingest that either. And this is random mostly useless information. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	full_metal_ox 2012-01-26 11:32 pm UTC (link)
	SAFETY TIP: Do not eat bug powder. Another: huffing deadly hallucinogenic neurotoxins just to find out what it's like is the express route to a Darwin Award (and somebody's lucky to have a physician as his long-suffering best bud.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	theninth 2012-01-27 03:37 am UTC (link)
	SAFETY TIP: Do not eat bug powder. This is also the message behind "Naked Lunch". (Reply to this)(Parent)

sandyclaws68
2012-01-26 02:18 am UTC (link)

You mean they miss it?
Some do, yeah. Usually the ones who like to think of themselves as "pure intellect" and therefore make everything about Holmes into something to be admired. They totally disregard the things that should be at the least regarded with a sideways hairy-eyeball glance.

For my part I think the best for portraying that tragic side of Holmes was Brett.

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	tehrin 2012-01-26 05:28 am UTC (link)
	It's like they think that by proving how right they are, they're smarter than the rabble and more like Holmes than everyone else. (Reply to this)(Parent)

cmdr_zoom
2012-01-26 07:39 pm UTC (link)

In my personal experience, those who aspire to/imagine themselves as "pure intellect" don't know how to deal with their emotions and need for social contact, have bad experiences as a result, and so try to pretend those things don't exist... which works about as well, long-term, as throwing a tarp over the elephant in the living room.

(I got better. Then I found new things to be stupid about.)

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	cmdr_zoom 2012-01-25 05:47 pm UTC (link)
	Next you're gonna say Romeo and Juliet wasn't a story about star-cross'd but eternal love! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2012-01-25 11:16 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I think it's about how parents are terrible, a theme which comes up in so many of Shakespeare's plays it gets kind of funny. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kumquat_of_doom
2012-01-26 10:57 pm UTC (link)

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
-- Philip Larkin

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	cmdr_zoom 2012-01-27 03:38 am UTC (link)
	Oh, ~~Spielberg~~ Shakespeare, you and your daddy issues. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	full_metal_ox 2012-01-26 11:42 pm UTC (link)
	Next you're gonna say Romeo and Juliet wasn't a story about star-cross'd but eternal love! GUY: Baby all I want to do is make you sweat; Let me be Romeo to your Juliet! GIRL: Okay, drink some poison and I'll stab myself-- You'd know that story if you ever took a book off a shelf! --Kelly, "No Booty Calls". (Reply to this)(Parent)

	argylespy 2012-01-27 03:31 am UTC (link)
	You mean Taylor Swift lied to me?! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2012-01-25 07:16 am UTC (link)
	Alexs1 is also focusing on the slash and not complaining as much about straight fic. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

amy_wolf
2012-01-25 10:25 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, the straight fic is pretty much a background to the idea that people might think about Holmes and Watson together that way. Although he did throw in the swipe at Irene Adler to make it clear that writers shouldn't cram women into Sherlock Holmes adaptations for such petty reasons as "Women often like seeing stuff with female characters in it" and "She was in the original work".

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	phosfate 2012-01-25 11:49 pm UTC (link)
	Or "quite a few Victorians were in fact women." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	puipui 2012-01-26 01:41 am UTC (link)
	I'd venture to say possibly even around half! Not that you'd know it based purely on what you read in books or see in TV shows or movies, of course, but I'm willing to make at least a small bet. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ekaterinv 2012-01-25 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	The one problem I have with pairing Watson and Holmes is when it eliminates Watson's attraction to and love for women. If people make Watson like women and like men too, or Holmes too, no problem. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chikane 2012-01-26 07:37 am UTC (link)
	These people always do it. Homophobia makes you think that gay stuff is always worse in OOCness. And this guy is undoubtedly deeply homophobic. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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