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	tez 2012-01-30 10:25 am UTC (link)
	... ...what the fuck did I just read? The part of me that is not in frothing rage mode is completely impressed by the seemingly boundless ability of those admins/mods to make it worse every single time they open their virtual mouths. That's a talent, my friends. Of course, it's a talent you really do not want to have, but still. (Reply to this)(Thread)

the_hierodule
2012-02-01 01:10 am UTC (link)

The BRPS thread seems to have died down. What amuses the hell out of me is that pretty much every place the mod's opened her mouth, she's been told off for being a horrible bigot, and she keeps going "NOPE UR ALL OVERREACTIN'! XD"

Someone referred to them as "so open-minded their brains fall out" on BRPS. I think that's accurate - swinging past tolerance and back into intolerance in an attempt to cater to everything.

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	ekaterinv 2012-01-30 10:47 am UTC (link)
	Why do so many people care about making people who have horrible views feel comfortable?! People who think absolutely all opinions should be respected gross me out. Bigoted assholes should be uncomfortable! On the plus side, Wolfwonderess wrote some really excellent stuff in those private messages. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2012-01-31 03:23 am UTC (link)
	Surely it's everyone's right to live in a version of reality carefully edited to their tastes? This is where I make a comment about FOX News. (Reply to this)(Parent)

the_hierodule
2012-02-01 01:12 am UTC (link)

I've used it as a debating tactic to try to show someone they're being bigots at some point - if people are going "OMG BUT YOU HAAATE CHRISTIANSSS, YOU HYPOCRITE", then trying for some sort of common ground of oppression to show why the gayhatin' is bad, mmkay, is at least a starting point.

It's not something I'd recommend, however, since they usually take the wrong message from it (at least in my experience)

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quantumreality
2012-01-30 03:39 pm UTC (link)

"[009];; Homosexual characters are allowed in the main role-play with the same limitations as heterosexual characters. However, if you plan to role-play a homosexual character with somebody, you must discuss it with them beforehand and respect any limits they may impose upon you, whether this means no sexual advances or no homosexual characters period. Spoiler tags must be used if a post includes any sort of physical, homosexual interaction. Minor flirting allowed without tags."

Actually to be honest at first I thought this was universal, and not a special rule just for same-sex sexual interaction, but then I saw that it WAS a special rule because WUT ABOUT THE WEWIGIOUS PWAYERS' ~FEEEEWINGS~ and then I just facepalmed.

*sighing at the resulting wank that was generated*

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the_hierodule
2012-02-01 01:18 am UTC (link)

Yeah, that's the thing - if they cut off that rule after the first sentence or just put up "Please spoiler and tag all romance threads" then hell, nobody would've batted an eye.

The mod later goes on to make a note about how some homosexual players have approached them stating they want heterosexual romance colour-coded/spoilered, which... I am having a hard time believing is not them taking the piss out of the original rule. But the mod was so happy to oblige! ALL TEXT MUST BE MARKED ACCORDING TO CONTENT!

It's just... An OTT reaction and over-legislation to an issue that could be resolved with less rules, not more.

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lied_ohne_worte
2012-01-30 04:18 pm UTC (link)

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	chikane 2012-01-30 06:36 pm UTC (link)
	That's exactly what most people do, yeah. Thus I have exactly the same suspicion as you on the last sentence. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mmanurere
2012-01-31 04:13 am UTC (link)

Now, I have no idea at all about role-playing, but to me it seems that the logical way to go about playing a character who does not want to get into a homosexual relationship would be to just react to any homosexual advances by having the character state that sorry, but they aren't interested.

Rule of thumb; people's characters will generally have less breadth of imagination than the people who play them. And some people can't possibly imagine that a G/L/B person of the same sex might come within 100 yards of them without experiencing the uncontrollable compulsion to have sex with them by any means necessary. So it seems that for certain RPers, the imagination constricts to the point where "100 yards" becomes "the same plane of existence".

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	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 01:20 am UTC (link)
	Handling matters ICly? In my^BTAC RP? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	the__ivorytower 2012-01-30 05:27 pm UTC (link)
	I give a lot of props to WolfWondress and absolutely none to the mods. The fuck, people. The fuck? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 01:21 am UTC (link)
	The fuck must be purple if it is heterosexual and green if it is homosexual. And spoilered. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	full_metal_ox 2012-02-03 01:43 am UTC (link)
	So I presume bisexual fuck needs to come in the eldritch purple-green light that permeates the sunken city of R'lyeh where dead Cthulhu dreams? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-04 03:54 am UTC (link)
	Or be represented by a HULK avatar, I suppose? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	full_metal_ox 2012-02-07 12:01 am UTC (link)
	"HULK WILL SLASH!" (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-07 05:13 am UTC (link)
	"HULK LAUGHS AT PUNY HETERONORMATIVE STANDARDS!" (Reply to this)(Parent)

	galateus 2012-01-30 09:18 pm UTC (link)
	I guess I shouldn't be surprised that their hideously styled dA journal (that I had to view the source code for in order to find the link to the individual entry charmingly titled 'Lolzies') also includes stamps for 'Global Warming is a load of crap. Get Over It.' and 'Shut Up About Mary Sues'. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	eleutheria 2012-01-31 01:54 am UTC (link)
	One of these things is not like the others? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ekaterinv 2012-01-31 02:39 am UTC (link)
	That's what I was thinking. I have a great amount of sympathy with "Shut Up About Mary Sues." Even if I didn't, global warming matters rather more. I'm not surprised they use itty bitty text that I won't even try to read because I don't like headaches. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

full_metal_ox
2012-02-03 01:41 am UTC (link)

I have a great amount of sympathy with "Shut Up About Mary Sues."

Particularly given that the criterion thereof seems to have degenerated from, "Does the character threaten the ecology of the story?"--which is the only working definition that matters--to, "Is the character in violation of such-and-such arbitrary Literary Sumptuary Laws?" or even, "Does the character have the temerity to be breathing the same air as Bishie McHotstuff?"

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	ekaterinv 2012-02-03 02:00 am UTC (link)
	Yep. I've seen it degenerate over the years from, "the character warps all other character's personalities so that they only exist to show how awesome she is," to "the character does heroic things," to "the character is pretty and likable," to "the character is attractive to one or more male characters," to "the character is female." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 01:26 am UTC (link)
	And she'd like to hear your opinion, but only if you agree with her. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2012-01-31 07:33 am UTC (link)
	People don't expect gay people in the real world to walk up to them and let them know they're gay and asking permission to have a conversation. Why the hell would you expect someone to do so for their characters before letting their characters have the ~~privilege and honor~~ to interact/talk to your straight ones? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	chikane 2012-01-31 07:42 am UTC (link)
	People don't expect gay people in the real world to walk up to them and let them know they're gay and asking permission to have a conversation. Actually, many people do expect this and will do a complete freakout if you don't tell them and they later find out over someone else. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tehrin 2012-01-31 07:44 am UTC (link)
	Well, not as a societal rule or a law. At least where I live. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 01:31 am UTC (link)
	And they're still stupid to do so. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2012-02-01 02:20 pm UTC (link)
	I'd personally use harsher words. I hate people like that. People like that are why I don't enter the anime club of our local university anymore. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	Well, it's [i]also[/i] stupid. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	full_metal_ox 2012-02-03 01:44 am UTC (link)
	Out of curiosity, how many of these same folks also slaver over yaoi or yuri? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2012-02-03 07:52 am UTC (link)
	In my experience, they tend to hate both. I've seen a few yaoi fangirls hating yuri, and some yuri fanboys hating yaoi, but both seem by far outnumbered by the straight fans hating both. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2012-01-31 07:43 am UTC (link)
	"You" being the owners of that game. Sorry. Got a little blinded by the bigotry in that rule and messed up my pronouns. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-01 01:30 am UTC (link)
	Even if they did, if they did it IC that'd be an entirely different matter. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rosehiptea
2012-01-31 06:58 pm UTC (link)

I've seen a couple of RPs that had weird rules, like gay and bi characters were allowed if "there was a reason they might not be straight in canon." (Or something like that, I didn't stay in that RP long and hadn't seen the rule when I joined.) Though from what I did see that essentially amounted to "We'll play whoever we want as whatever we want," so maybe it was some stupid rule someone made and then walked away.

But that is just over-the-top stupid and bigoted, yes.

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	aaron_agonistes 2012-01-31 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	This is actually pretty common, in my LJ RP experience. A character who shows no interest in relationships can usually be assumed to be heterosexual, but the applicant would need to present a lot of proof in order to app that same character as a bi- or homosexual. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rosehiptea
2012-02-01 03:12 am UTC (link)

It's just weird for me, because I mostly like het fic and het rp in the days when I did rp. (Mostly, but I do write some m/m and more f/f, and I did have one beloved slash rp pairing that I still miss.)

But anyway, there really aren't characters where I say "No way could that person ever go with someone of the same gender." Sometimes I don't particularly ship them with anyone of the same gender, but it's not because I can't see it happening.

tl;dr I just really don't get that argument even though I'm not much of a "slasher" per se.

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ekaterinv
2012-02-01 04:09 am UTC (link)

There are a few characters who are canonically straight who, when I see people make them romantically involved with someone of the same sex, I go "ew". I think of those characters as 0 on the Kinsey scale, and it grosses me out when people force their sexuality into something else. I have experience with people trying to do that to me (emotionally and through arguments), and it sucks.

HOWEVER I have a similar reaction when people force canonically gay or lesbian characters who read as 6 to me into het relationships. I feel that's even grosser because of straight privilege.

I think people should have to bring the same amount of "proof" to the table about a character's sexuality no matter what the character's sexuality happens to be.

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rosehiptea
2012-02-01 05:51 pm UTC (link)

There are canonically-straight-as-far-as-we-know characters I can't see as gay or lesbian because we've seen their relationships and/or been inside their heads and I just can't see it. That doesn't mean I can't see them as bi.

As for gay or lesbian characters not being that, there aren't that many in my fandoms that I can think of as examples -- but putting them into het relationships or even saying they're bi in a story could involve a load of privilege and baggage I wouldn't deal with.

But in theory I can see just about anyone fictional as bi.

Real people is another thing entirely, whatever somebody says they are in real life I back the hell away from that because it's them. I can't even imagine engaging someone I know about their identity, wow, no.

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	full_metal_ox 2012-02-03 01:34 am UTC (link)
	But in theory I can see just about anyone fictional as bi. See an excellent essay to that effect that ran awhile back on LJ's Fanficrants. (I believe this was the occasion on which Emperorsteele earned the distinction of his very own mod tag.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the_hierodule 2012-02-04 03:58 am UTC (link)
	Ooh. Clicks link (Reply to this)(Parent)

	obsidianwolf 2012-02-06 11:47 am UTC (link)
	I had forgotten all about that wank. I can still recall how he refused to grasp anything that contradicted his world view. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chikane 2012-02-01 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	It's sadly still pretty common, yeah. And the amount of evidence that is sometimes asked is absurd, too. I'm pretty sure that a character who keeps fantasizing about a same-sex character without clothes, and who kissed that character on the lips, should be considerable as gay. Not enough for some people, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	varkias 2012-02-01 03:10 pm UTC (link)
	....what. Seriously, what the fuck. In what universe could that possibly be not enough? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chikane
2012-02-01 09:55 pm UTC (link)

Well, the LJ RP universe, where "I am uncomfortable with gay people" and "gay people don't need support" is an acceptable, non-homophobic thing to declare on a day where gay bullying suicides made headlines on every american news site, enough that even I as an european got wind of it.

And that stuff? Was part of the argument that this person had it really, really bad since people were calling her homophobic for her attitudes. Poor her, the true victim. If only we overly PC gay bullies wouldn't judge her.

Seriously, I found it surprisingly hard to find games lacking people like that. There's a lot of homophobia around.

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ekaterinv
2012-02-01 11:10 pm UTC (link)

There seem to be a surprisingly large (to me) number of bigots in RPing generally. And then there are the people who enable them, because of the whole geek fallacies thing.

My fiance is in an ongoing argument with someone on an RP-based board that ties into this. The person he's arguing with is claiming that all opinions have exactly the same amount of merit and that we should treat all of them equally.

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	the_hierodule 2012-02-02 12:24 am UTC (link)
	I believe that's what's referred to (as noted in the BRPS threads) as being so open-minded [their] brains fall out. (Reply to this)(Parent)

full_metal_ox
2012-02-03 01:27 am UTC (link)

I wonder what they would've made of my disaffected younger prince who was adventuring in the guise of a swashbuckling woman warrior in the Utena/Rose of Versailles mold. (This was a number of years before the anime Chevalier d'Eon, although I was aware of the historical figure; the character represented my attempt to interpret J-Rock diva Mana as a fighter, a role to which I tend to gravitate in RPGs.)

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	the_hierodule 2012-02-04 04:20 am UTC (link)
	Green or Purple >:\| (Reply to this)(Parent)

	jenifer 2012-03-22 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	As most of the green cleaning solutions, this sounds pretty strange as well, but have you tried cleaning your house with vodka? I know what you think, but it is true. In fact, it works a lot better than many commercial cleaners. ------------------ cleaners Hawthorn \| cleaners Toorak \| cleaners Cranbourne (Reply to this)