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bishounenhideto
2012-02-28 12:03 pm UTC (link)

I came in way too early to the comments thread, especially as someone who doesn't know the show or it's demographics.

I won't delete or alter my comment but will reply to it to add further thoughts.

After seeing many more people speak out on this, it's good to see people standing up for something they believe in in a firm and generally rational way. Whether I am/was personally offended or not by the "Derpy" character, and in fact, whether anyone else was personally not offended by the character doesn't matter. Enough people were and Hasbro did what they felt was best. It's good that people can come together to make such change happen.

If I offended anyone with my previous comment, it was never my intent.

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	roachspit 2012-02-28 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	If I offended anyone with my previous comment, it was never my intent. Oh, my bad. I thought we were discussing My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, not My Little Pony: Intent Is Fucking Magic. /sarcasm Maybe you should read the other comments first next time. It'll save you some trouble. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bishounenhideto 2012-02-29 05:50 am UTC (link)
	When I posted, there weren't hundreds of comments/replies yet. Sorry for not being constantly present to monitor the discussion every second. Nice to see we can accept when people start out on opposing sides and end up agreeing with you be learning more about the subject. Good way to encourage more open dialogue. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	staroverthebay 2012-02-29 06:54 am UTC (link)
	This passive-aggressive shit isn't helping your case one tiny bit, you know. You're only making yourself into an even bigger asshole. (Reply to this)(Parent)

roachspit
2012-03-01 12:16 am UTC (link)

Okay, let's do this thing.

I'm just wondering why nobody is going after the Simpsons...

Then write a post about the Simpsons. This is a MLP post. Switching from one to the other without a logical segue is derailing. Derailing is bad.

Also, how do people feel about dis/differently-abled people saying they liked the character as she was and felt she was a symbol for them in the fact that despite her being different, she was a MLP all the same and loved equally by all the other ponies, that "fixing" her was erasing their identity and saying people who are dis/differently-abled shouldn't be seen, let alone heard?

If you had read the earlier comments, you would already know how people feel about this. If the choices are, "You can be represented, but only in a disrespectful way," or, "You won't be represented at all," most people have chosen no representation over disrespectful representation. We feel that those should not be the only choices; respectful representation is ideal.

Also, we are not operating under a utilitarian ethical system. If something offends one reasonable person, then it has offended too many people. If those five people over there are not offended, this does not mean that it's still okay to offend the three over here. Ideally, no one should be offended.

How many people in this fight are personally dis/differently-abled or personally have dis/differently-abled relatives who expressed a negative opinion of the character's original nature/look...

One, it's none of your business if a random stranger on the Internet is a PWD. Two, if you had read the earlier comments, you'd have seen several community members self-identify as people with disabilities.

...versus being white hats out to save people...

No one is white knighting here. We are simply attempting to be decent, respectful human beings.

...people who, as many seem to have posted, don't feel they need or want saving of this kind?

Many who seem to have posted where? Because the people with disabilities who have commented on this post have largely wanted respect, not "saving." They aren't helpless, they are being disrespected--and you are not helping.

For the record, I'm neither a brony nor have I seen a single episode of the show. I'm just trying to understand all sides of this.

People who want respect and the people who recognize that they deserve respect vs. people who don't want to give them respect and instead want to mock them without being called on it. What about that is so hard to understand?

I came in way too early to the comments thread, especially as someone who doesn't know the show or it's demographics.

Yeah. Work on that for next time, okay?

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roachspit
2012-03-01 12:19 am UTC (link)

After seeing many more people speak out on this, it's good to see people standing up for something they believe in in a firm and generally rational way.

You may not realize this, but that sentence comes across as incredibly condescending. We don't want to be patted on the head and told, "Good job." We want the bronies to stop being disrespectful assholes. Also, we generally don't like condescension and have a tendency to bite people's hands when they try to pat us on the head.

Whether I am/was personally offended or not by the "Derpy" character, and in fact, whether anyone else was personally not offended by the character doesn't matter.

Okay, now you're showing improvement...

Enough people were and Hasbro did what they felt was best.

...and now you're not. Enough people were offended? How many people counts as "enough people"? Is it one hundred? Two hundred? How about a dozen? Because I think it's one. One reasonable person who is offended is too many. There is no acceptable level of offense here.

If I offended anyone with my previous comment, it was never my intent.

Intent is not fucking magic. You might want to rephrase that. You didn't even say "sorry." :(

When I posted, there weren't hundreds of comments/replies yet.

There were enough. We can read timestamps.

Sorry for not being constantly present to monitor the discussion every second.

You are forgiven.

Nice to see we can accept when people start out on opposing sides and end up agreeing with you be learning more about the subject. Good way to encourage more open dialogue.

You may have learned something, but you started by offending people and followed up with a fauxpology. Bad form.

As a southerner, I get tired of the "missing teeth, didn't graduate 5th grade, wear only overalls and no shoes, dumb as a rock, inbred hayseed redneck" trope, but not much ever gets done about that. It makes too much money, I guess. Larry the Cable Guy isn't even actually southern, so a northerner slurs southerners and makes big bucks and is hugely popular for doing it. *sighs*

I'm from Georgia. Is that relevant to the current discussion? No. We are not playing oppression Olympics. And even if we were, "Southerners are stupid" is in no way comparable to the "People with disabilities are all retarded and subhuman. Let's point and laugh at them! Hur hur!" bullshit that the bronies are pulling right now.

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roachspit
2012-03-01 12:20 am UTC (link)

sandglass said, You didn't think anarchicq was bad enough, huh? Wanted to bookend the comments with, "But no disabled people were really upset! It's all white knights!"?

And then you said, I didn't say "every" anywhere in my original question, and you must've missed my follow up to my own post.

sandglass didn't say "every" either. And your follow up was a bullshit fauxpology.

The bigger fact, though, was enough other dis/differently-abled people and their friends/family didn't.

Again with "enough people" being offended. Oy.

I have said several times now that those people with disabilities who find this offensive are more important than those who don't care or who support the character.

No. Just no. No one person or group of people is more important than any other. This is not a numbers game, okay? One reasonable person being offended is too many.

I said it was good that Hasbro fixed it.

Hasbro neither needs nor wants your approval. We don't either.

I said I didn't have a full understanding of how people felt or the actual problems with the character because I've never seen the show or character.

You don't need to see the show to know that they portrayal of the character was ableist. Her name alone is a big neon clue.

I said I was wrong once I saw what was actually going on. I'm sorry I didn't understand better from the beginning and I'm sorry I have hurt people because of it.

Great. But by this point, you've dug that hole so deep I'm not sure anyone believes you're actually sorry. Sorry we're calling you on it, sure. But sorry you said it, I don't know. Let me know?

Do we want to encourage people to rethink this whole Derpy situation as I did and come to the right conclusion or do we want to tell them once they've offended you, they will always be an irredeemable asshole who can never be a decent human being?

We keep treating you like an asshole because you keep acting like one!

Oh, and it's good to see people read my own reply to my post before anyone else read what I wrote, and saw that after seeing more replies show up after mine, I saw that what ended up happening was a good thing, but we can't have "the enemy" realize that sort of thing and accept that they've realized it.

Get it straight. You are not "the enemy." You are "the jerk." We've read what you written; we just don't think it's sincere. You don't seem to have changed your mind on the subject so much as realized that you are outnumbered and would likely be dogpiled for jerkish behavior. The preemptive fauxpology did not help.

If you want to be educated, Google ableism and then read Derailing for Dummies. Next time, don't do anything you find at that link.

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	cyndra_falin 2012-03-01 02:29 am UTC (link)
	A big fucking THANK YOU! I love you so hard right now. <3 (Reply to this)(Parent)

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