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honorh ([info]honorh) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2012-03-08 21:50:00
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NEWS FLASH: In the future, we may not all be white!
The cast for the movie of The Hunger Games has been known for a while, but a certain segment of the fandom is having a hard time coming to terms with something about it: Namely, that Rue and Thresh, both described in the book as dark-skinned, will be played by African-American actors. Worse, so will Cinna, whose ethnicity isn't mentioned, and therefore must be white.

Hunger Games Tweets has been keeping its eye on some of the worse elements. Warning: Some extremely vile, racist language. Did you know that sweet, innocent girls must always be pale and fair-haired? And gay men can't be black? I'm telling you, it's an education.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go vomit.

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[info]bienegold
2012-03-09 11:15 am UTC (link)
These discussions always kind of leave me completely confused, because I'm not at all a visual reader. I can't "see" characters at all unless they're really explicitly described or, better yet, if there's an illustration somewhere.

This isn't a "lol, I'm colorblind," thing, more a whole...not getting the whole idea of having such a strong image of a character that you get upset to that degree when a movie depiction doesn't match.

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[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-09 11:20 am UTC (link)
I can sort of understand it. The Discworld books never straight out said that Twoflower was a Japanese/Chinese expy visually but when they cast Sean Astin as him, I was pretty disappointed. And the old guy as Rincewind.

Note I said sort of. I had no stupid rhetoric to go with it.

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[info]fools_game
2012-03-09 11:52 am UTC (link)
It was never stated outright, certainly, but in Interesting Times his home country is definitely coded as 'Asian' in the same way XXXX was coded Australian and Genua was coded as New Orleans. Not necessarily accurately, but with symbols recognisable to the average British reader. The Discworld books rarely state parallels to our world outright, but to say they're not there is ridiculous.

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[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-09 12:02 pm UTC (link)
Well, yeah.

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[info]mirhanda
2012-03-09 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I never pegged Genua as N.O.! I always thought of it as Italy (because of Genoa.) I will have to cogitate on this for a while.

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[info]honorh
2012-03-09 08:31 pm UTC (link)
Read Witches Abroad, and it comes across as an expy of N'awlins, all right.

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[info]mirhanda
2012-03-09 08:37 pm UTC (link)
I have read that one, I just didn't pick up on it. While I enjoy the Witches series, they don't get as many re-reads as the Watch series. (Or DEATH for that matter.) I just love the Watch! (And DEATH!)

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[info]honorh
2012-03-09 08:42 pm UTC (link)
Totally with you on the Watch. Vimes is my favorite character on the Disc.

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[info]mirhanda
2012-03-09 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I can't decide between Vimes and DEATH. I love them both so much. But the Watch series is definitely my favorite.

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[info]fools_game
2012-03-10 12:51 am UTC (link)
Yeah, in Witches Abroad he hits pretty much every stereotype: gumbo, swamp, voodoo magic, zombies, street festivals, etc.

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[info]mirhanda
2012-03-10 07:53 pm UTC (link)
I guess I'm in for a re-read of the Witches books. It's been many years since I've done so!

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[info]mirhanda
2012-03-09 08:26 pm UTC (link)
I...they...SEAN ASTIN??

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[info]iamnotyourmuse
2012-03-09 09:55 pm UTC (link)
He's very... enthusiastic. He never managed to completely sell me but I did enjoy his performance by the end.

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[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-10 12:01 am UTC (link)
The Discworld books never straight out said that Twoflower was a Japanese/Chinese expy visually but when they cast Sean Astin as him, I was pretty disappointed.

I suspect that the filmmakers may have been trying to avoid the Dorky Camera-Laden Asian Tourist stereotype, but that casting decision is going to bite them in the butt if they get around to adapting Interesting Times.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-10 06:06 am UTC (link)
Given how long it's been, I'm not even sure the Rincewind actor will still be alive if they ever get around to doing that. He said in a gloomy Eeyore voice.

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[info]derryderrydown
2012-03-14 05:06 pm UTC (link)
I'd prefer he were retired to dead but... I have a David Jason allergy at the best of times, and Rincewind is meant to be pretty young, dammit.

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[info]kannaophelia
2012-03-16 07:42 am UTC (link)
and Rincewind is meant to be pretty young, dammit.

YES. I get that Twoflower is squicky stereotype-wise, and they were probably trying to avoid the squickiness (although whitewashing is a problem too, there's no graceful solution there, Twoflower is just problematic at best), but old Rincewind was just wrong.

Almost as wrong as Tim Curry hamming it up as Trymon.

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[info]hadisia
2012-03-15 11:05 am UTC (link)
I always see Vimes as Denzel Washington because Denzel is the quintessential "overworked cop" in my mind. Then I see official art and go "WHOA, WAIT, WHAT- oh right" (he's still my mental Vimes, though).

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[info]bienegold
2012-03-09 12:09 pm UTC (link)
I feel like I should probably head something off at the pass. I don't mean whitewashing here; I feel like that's a separate issue entirely. I mean more the people who are taken aback that a character's not white like in their mind, or the people who haven't heard of hair dye and just can't imagine that a blonde would play a brunette.

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[info]aaron_agonistes
2012-03-09 09:45 pm UTC (link)
I have a similar problem. Even when characters are described clearly, or when there's a movie or a cover image to reference, I still have a hard time remembering what characters look like when I'm reading. Voices I can hear very distinctly, but faces I have trouble with.

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[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-10 01:18 am UTC (link)
These discussions always kind of leave me completely confused, because I'm not at all a visual reader. I can't "see" characters at all unless they're really explicitly described or, better yet, if there's an illustration somewhere.

This isn't a "lol, I'm colorblind," thing, more a whole...not getting the whole idea of having such a strong image of a character that you get upset to that degree when a movie depiction doesn't match.

By contrast, I'm quite prone to Fan Casting; I was delighted to learn that William Gibson had patterned Molly Millions in Neuromancer after Chrissie Hynde, because of how warm I'd gotten--Joan Jett having firmly installed herself as my own mental image.

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-10 03:59 pm UTC (link)
Huh, I always thought of Molly Millions as mixed-race, and now I'm wondering where I got that.

(Except I also pictured her looking a lot like Chrissie Hynde, though I didn't put her name on that thought exactly, so that is cool.)

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[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-10 08:54 pm UTC (link)
Huh, I always thought of Molly Millions as mixed-race, and now I'm wondering where I got that.

Possibly from the heavy Neo-Tokyo ambiance--if you were envisioning her as Eurasian--as well as her self-description as "an exotic".

(Alternatively, I could imagine Molly as Oshima Yukari--who would certainly have been equal to the action demands of the role; unfortunately, she's too old by now.)

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-10 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Well, that was a treat to watch, and I can certainly see her as Molly!

However if we ever did get a Neuormancer movie I'd probably end up in some community here for bitching about the casting.

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[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-10 09:58 pm UTC (link)
Then you'd make room on the bench for me, I hope.

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