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honorh ([info]honorh) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2012-03-08 21:50:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
NEWS FLASH: In the future, we may not all be white!
The cast for the movie of The Hunger Games has been known for a while, but a certain segment of the fandom is having a hard time coming to terms with something about it: Namely, that Rue and Thresh, both described in the book as dark-skinned, will be played by African-American actors. Worse, so will Cinna, whose ethnicity isn't mentioned, and therefore must be white.

Hunger Games Tweets has been keeping its eye on some of the worse elements. Warning: Some extremely vile, racist language. Did you know that sweet, innocent girls must always be pale and fair-haired? And gay men can't be black? I'm telling you, it's an education.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go vomit.

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[info]nursewretched
2012-03-09 04:56 pm UTC (link)
Aw, Lucy Liu as Watson is the only interesting thing I've heard about the new show. I'm trying to remember, has there been a female Watson before?

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[info]phosfate
2012-03-09 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Joanne Woodward, Margaret Colin, others I can't remember because it's way too early.

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[info]aaron_agonistes
2012-03-09 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Joanne Woodward was pretty much the only good thing about that movie, too.

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[info]phosfate
2012-03-09 09:50 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for sharing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]nursewretched
2012-03-10 04:32 pm UTC (link)
Thank you. I may have to look into these other Watsons.

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[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-10 06:10 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that actually got me interested, 'cause Lucy Liu is awesome.

Fandom: We want more women and more poc!
Show: here's Lucy Liu as Watson
Fandom: You're erasing the queer relationship between the two (presumably) straight white guys!/She doesn't look like Watson!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-10 11:09 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that whole mess just depresses me and I'm not even in any of the fandoms for Sherlock Holmes adaptations.

I haven't watched much of Lucy Liu's stuff but it's so clear people are down on her because she's an Asian woman and not Martin Freeman.

(Watson looks like whatever you want him or her to look like, but if you want to watch a show with a white guy as Watson you have a huge variety to choose from. Jeez, people.)

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[info]luxshine
2012-03-10 05:09 pm UTC (link)
some people love the idea of a PoC Watson. Or a lesbian Watson. Or anything but either white!Watson or Watson as a woman because it's the only way she can be a romantic interest for Holmes... just saying.

I don't doubt there are some people angry because she's not Martin Freeman, and some people who are being racist idiots about it, but it's not every single fan who complains who is like that.

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-10 05:22 pm UTC (link)
I don't think every single fan complaining is a racist, so I'm sorry if I sounded like that. And I should have said "some people" for that reason, though I've seen quite a bit of "Watson looks like this" with pictures of Martin Freeman, so that's where I was coming from on that.

And I get that TV executives are going to make het couples and not gay couples and that sucks in general. I still can't help thinking that complaint about this specific show is a little misplaced, but that's me.

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[info]luxshine
2012-03-10 06:26 pm UTC (link)
Oh don't worry. Maybe I was a bit oversensitive after the last three times the subject came up on F!S (Where of course, if you complain you're a racist, because it's not possible it's homophobic, and the complain that Liu!Watson is not a doctor and thus the show runners are diminishing the character is seen as sexist when we're complaining about the fact that she's not a doctor, not a she), and well.

Still, Watson looks like whatever the hell the reader/watcher wants, as you say, so I don't understand the Martin Freeman obsession (I like him, but I like Law's Watson a bit better)

I think the problem with this specific show is that people are immensely attached to the possibility that someone will finally have the guts to do a gay Sherlock/Watson openly, and then you've got a woman in the rol, who is not white, so you've got to decide... are you sexist/racist if you complain or homophobic if you don't complain? and no one wins with that attitude and... well, I'm amazed we haven't landed on Fandom Wank yet.

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-10 09:48 pm UTC (link)
No problem, I get where F!S is kind of a minefield, having just gotten into a stupid argument with an anon there myself which I'm still trying to get myself to ignore.

And I've seen plenty of legitimate complaints about what they did as far as Watson's back story, so I don't think that's racist at all... if anything the posts I've seen about that are saying that Lucy Liu deserves to play a better character, so.

I don't think American TV was ever even contemplating doing Sherlock and Watson as a gay couple. So I guess that's part of why I don't relate as much to that objection to the casting -- I mean I really don't think anyone even thought "We'll make her a woman or this will be too gay!" My bias I guess?

Yet, yeah, they do want to escape having gay couples in general and that is pretty sad. Just it doesn't bother me particularly that they don't do it in this particular show, but that doesn't mean every single person who wants to see that is a racist.

/rambling, sorry.

P.S. I'd be more likely to watch it if they made Sherlock and Watson women. But what do I know.

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[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-10 11:12 pm UTC (link)
Didn't you have a second comment here? You're not supposed to delete comments.

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-11 12:46 am UTC (link)
It was a duplicate of the same comment. I thought I was allowed to delete it under those circumstances. I apologize if I wasn't.

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(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-03-11 12:59 am UTC

[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-11 02:29 am UTC (link)
And I've seen plenty of legitimate complaints about what they did as far as Watson's back story, so I don't think that's racist at all... if anything the posts I've seen about that are saying that Lucy Liu deserves to play a better character, so.

Last I checked, wasn't this the twenty-first century--where it's entirely possible for an Asian-American woman to be a physician, combat veteran, and Wounded Warrior? Recent events have even obligingly provided another Afghan War.

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[info]rosehiptea
2012-03-11 04:21 am UTC (link)
Excellent point, yeah. I don't get why they dropped the ball on that so badly.

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(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2012-03-12 01:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2012-03-12 05:16 pm UTC

[info]luxshine
2012-03-11 03:39 am UTC (link)
My problem is that I'm a pessimist. I do believe that someone said "We'll make her a woman or this will be too gay!" and that also colors my view I guess.

And yes, Sherlock AND Watson women would be amazingly cool. If I didn't know that they already cast Sherlock, I wouldn't be so mad about all this,

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-10 11:10 pm UTC (link)
Butting in here, but my take is that people wanting to get rid of the woc because of the remote possibility of the two white guys getting it on is fairly questionable in and of itself.

I`m not casting any accusations your way though, to be clear. I'm talking about the stuff I saw on tumblr.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]luxshine
2012-03-11 03:03 am UTC (link)
I'm starting to think Tumbler is a hive of scum and villany. Since apparently, everyone who finds racist comments against Lucy Liu, finds them in Tumbler.

For me is more like TPTB made Watson a woman (But not an army doctor, of course) BECAUSE they didn't want more people reading that there could be a homoerotic subtext. That sort of bothers me a little. Especially since it's very probable that they will end up romantically involved and that sits really bad with me.

TL;DR version: I want a woc Watson. I just want her to be a kickass doctor who doesn't fall in love with Sherlock.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]spacelogic, 2012-03-12 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]luxshine, 2012-03-12 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]enrythe8th, 2012-03-15 04:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melusina, 2012-03-21 08:34 am UTC

[info]enrythe8th
2012-03-15 04:12 pm UTC (link)
A little misplaced? Just speaking for BBC Sherlock, I wouldn't call it queer representation at all. It's just sort of "Hur hur lookit everyone thinks two guys who live together and have a bromance means they're gay let's point it out every five minutes," and then the series creators then are just like "OH NO THEY'RE TOTALLY NOT GAY." Which seems to happen a lot these days, because oh golly goodness do we ever love our bromances *retch*. I think people forget that subtext is not representation. It's kind of insulting, I think.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]full_metal_ox
2012-03-10 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Holmes has somehow managed to survive being transformed into a Martian, a mouse, and a mage; that the fact of the Powers That Be's having cast an Asian female Watson concerns me far less than how they'll play her.

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[info]sepiamagpie
2012-03-10 11:01 pm UTC (link)
I really really hope well, because then I can be smug.

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[info]enrythe8th
2012-03-15 04:26 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, this. I'm just hoping lightning strikes twice and we can have another Wiseguy. (which had its own problems with female and PoC representation, but it was a good show)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bienegold
2012-03-11 02:09 am UTC (link)
I can't believe people are getting so butthurt over the casting when the description of the character is so bad.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sukeban
2012-03-10 02:29 pm UTC (link)
Rex Stout played with that idea in 1941, although most of his points about the Sherlock/Watson bromance they had going on in the canon could be read as heterosexist today.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]napalmnacey
2012-03-12 05:13 pm UTC (link)
I know, right? I was all, "WAARGLGARBL NOT WATCHING- Wait, Lucy Liu as Watson? Hot damn, I'mma give it a go."

Cause my love of Lucy Liu is so deep and true.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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