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Pyrate Jenni ([info]pyratejenni) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2012-08-05 19:37:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:have some fucking decorum!, person: winterfox, publishing, sj means never having to say you're sry, social justice, transfail

Your one-stop shopping for trolling and bullying disguise as social justice!
Blatantly cut and pasted from [info]wank_report. Hat tips to the mice.


Requires Only That You Hate (http://requireshate.wordpress.com/) - Requires Hate for short - is a Thai Chinese lesbian blogger who has been ripping various sexist and racist science fiction/fantasy books apart in her online reviews. She's also better known as winterfox.

About 10 days ago, in one of her posts, Requires Hate posted a link to another person's review of the Inspector Chen books written by Liz Williams: http://requireshate.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/more-links/ (top paragraph).

Liz Williams - mevennen on livejournal - clearly dd not appreciate this. When Catherynne Valente posted about the sexual harassment at Readercon, mevennen's response was to ask whether she feels the same way about Requires Hate as she does about Rene Walling:
http://catvalente.livejournal.com/678836.html?thread=21468596#t21468596

"I don't think ANY of this is acceptable. I don't care whether it's puppy-eyed, I'm-sowwy leching American men, or wannabe sociopathic Chinese women."

Posting in the thread was not enough for Williams, however - she went on to write a long and ranty LJ post calling Requires Hate an "an aspiring fantasy serial killer" and announcing that "in the unlikely event that she is a potential psychonerd like the guy in Aurora, I’ve passed her details on to the relevant authorities and they can act if they see fit. Hey, if I’m going to be accused of being an Evil British Imperialist Whore [Tm] whatever I do, I might as well make the most of it": http://mevennen.livejournal.com/889924.html (comments now screened)

Valente posted a response:

"I believe that people should be able to voice their opinions, even if I disagree with them. Even if I agree sometimes and other times think that in a quest to answer injustice and be heard, they step over the line into cruelty."
http://catvalente.livejournal.com/679023.html

There's some humor in the comments, particularly in the threads involving Nick Mamatas (nihilistic_kid), who is also very outspoken about his likes and dislikes and who listed Requires Hate as an example of a "superior sort of reader" recently: http://nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com/1777161.html




In Caitlin R. Kiernan's journal:
http://greygirlbeast.livejournal.com/900453.html?thread=13564261#t13564261

Important background: a previous discussion in Valente's journal and follow-up twitter exchange with Requires Hate which led Kari Sperring (la_marquise_de_) to attempt suicide:

http://catvalente.livejournal.com/677154.html?thread=21396770#t21396770

https://twitter.com/KariSperring/status/206049221864980481
https://twitter.com/KariSperring/status/206048663041089539
https://twitter.com/KariSperring/status/206048219225006080
https://twitter.com/KariSperring/status/206047696480505858
https://twitter.com/KariSperring/status/206046672311156736

Nick Mamatas's comment on this today - "Apparently, Twitter makes people suicidal."
http://nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com/1781261.html?thread=27024397#t27024397

An annoyed friend of Mevennen and previous fan of Cat Valente posted to denounce Winterfox. It's a bit tl;dr but makes many good points. He cites FFA and quotes Cat's infamous line, "I, too, can, have, and will again write a book which communicates the Japan I can make up in my head - it's far better than the real thing."

http://tyrell.livejournal.com/847819.html

Meanwhile, Cat Valente continues bawwwwing on LJ and Twitter, sadly with a great deal of support from fans, friends, and minions.

http://catvalente.livejournal.com/679023.html

Some more info here: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/38277.html?thread=172264837#t172264837 Including links to Winterfox's infamous death and torture threats/wishes to other people.



(Post a new comment)


[info]ekaterinv
2012-08-06 04:13 am UTC (link)
She's also better known as winterfox.

Oh god. Her.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]seiberwing
2012-08-06 04:22 am UTC (link)
That was my exact reaction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2012-08-06 04:57 am UTC (link)
That name sounds familiar. Has she been on F_W at all?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-06 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-06 07:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-06 07:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-06 07:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]juliansinger, 2012-08-07 06:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-06 05:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2012-08-06 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-06 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2012-08-06 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-06 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-08-07 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-07 06:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-08-07 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilitu93, 2012-08-07 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-07 10:01 pm UTC
Winterfox on Piracy - [info]sharps, 2012-08-09 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2012-08-06 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2012-08-06 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2012-08-08 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-08 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elzezuk, 2012-08-15 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]innervoice_chan, 2012-08-06 01:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nagaina, 2012-08-06 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chienne, 2012-08-07 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2012-08-07 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-07 04:45 am UTC

[info]sepiamagpie
2012-08-06 05:11 am UTC (link)
I wish I'd seen that ("Oh god. Her") when Kynn (the social justice rapist) came up in the nihilistic_kid thread. They're misgendering her to 'get even'. Because that isn't nasty to other transfolk at all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2012-08-06 05:23 am UTC (link)
It's okay because they're superior sorts of readers. Not inferior sorts. Superior sorts are allowed to do anything they please to inferior sorts, and act however they wish, because they're superior.

(Seriously, is that post for real?)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-08-06 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-06 07:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-06 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nagaina, 2012-08-06 11:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]taktuk, 2012-08-06 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-07 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]taktuk, 2012-08-07 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-07 10:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-08-07 04:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2012-08-07 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-08-07 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-09 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-08-09 03:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-09 04:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-08-09 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2012-08-09 04:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-08-09 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2012-08-07 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-07 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2012-08-06 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2012-08-07 03:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-07 11:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-08-07 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-08 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-08-08 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2012-08-08 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-08-07 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2012-08-09 11:35 am UTC

[info]puipui
2012-08-06 06:10 am UTC (link)
They're misgendering her to 'get even'.

This is one of my instant hate buttons, right here. HATE HATE HATE.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2012-08-06 06:39 am UTC

[info]bobafeis
2012-08-06 07:17 am UTC (link)
They're misgendering her to 'get even'

I'm too high on vicodin right now to make sense of the rest of this post, so I'm just going to rage at this one thing that I can understand. Fuck you, fuckfaces!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2012-08-06 11:57 am UTC (link)
Mostly what I can glean from this:

Every single person involved is completely facepalm-worthy. There is not a single "good" person coming out of this wank. I... I don't even.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]phosfate
2012-08-06 01:55 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, just the list of names involved is making me kinda nauseous. Hello, winners.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mneiai
2012-08-06 10:42 pm UTC (link)
If only that was always true and all the awful wank stayed between nasty people....

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]footsie
2012-08-07 06:36 am UTC (link)
It's like watching a swarm of wasps attack a meadow of stinging nettles. It's too bad that someone decent will inevitable walk into that meadow and get stung by either nettles or wasps, but as long as only nettles and wasps are involved, I'll make popcorn.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]iamnotyourmuse
2012-08-07 02:57 pm UTC (link)
It's kind of a cornucopia of fail, isn't it? Like, it's not all the same type or level, but what a variety!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2012-08-07 04:12 pm UTC (link)
What's sad is that Caitlin R. Kiernan is on my LJ flist -- she and I share a passion for sci-fi/fantasy and paleontology.

I suppose she's always been very opinionated, but her response to criticism here is simply embarassing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2012-08-07 11:38 pm UTC (link)
As far as I've seen, whenever winterfox attacks people, her victims become extremely wanky in their attempts at defense, if they try to defend at all. Winterfox is so cruel and frightening, and her thinking is so thoroughly black-and-white, it sets off flight or fight responses in others. She is probably the most skilled troll I've ever seen. She's been doing it for years, and with various topics, but she didn't find a real home until she landed in SJ spaces. And that is incredibly worrisome for SJ spaces.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-08 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-08-08 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2012-08-08 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arionhunter, 2012-08-10 02:55 am UTC

[info]kijikun
2012-08-07 08:18 am UTC (link)
O_O I really hope that's not the same Winterfox I rp'd with back in my days in the Highlander fandom.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]silrana
2012-08-08 01:43 pm UTC (link)
And I'm hoping this isn't the same winterfox I knew on the fanfic board I post at. That one was always civil, as far as I recall.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sarahfrost
2012-08-10 01:16 am UTC (link)
I think she is, actually--she was a LotR fan and a Knights of the Old Republic fan, though I didn't know her back then. Some of the things she has to say about Salvatore and Greenwood strike me as apt and a lot more interesting to read than Salvatore and Greenwood's actual work.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keleri
2012-08-08 06:21 am UTC (link)
Alright, not going to lie, I raised my eyebrows at the thought that someone attempted suicide over an internet kerfuffle-- but I read through the exchange and I'm actually strangely appalled. In what universe is it okay for a grown-ass woman and professional author to sic her fans and her husband on someone for making an incredibly politely-worded and deferential request not to treat their country like a storybook land? How does Valente handle edits on her books?

I think I'm focusing on this instead of Winterfox, since Winterfox is Winterfox and can't be expected to do any differently; but I was previously under the impression that Valente was, y'know, a functioning adult who would not suddenly veer into crying softly into her handkerchief because someone harshed her ~*~*~magic specialness~*~*~.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]realitydeviant
2012-08-08 12:30 pm UTC (link)
You obviously missed Winterfox's little kefluffle with R.A. Salvatore then. Too bad most of that vanished when the old candlekeep site went boom when Dungeons & Dragons was sold to (I think) Wizards of the Coast. That one was truly epic, with Winterfox and Salvatore competing to win the Asshole Olympics and giant zergs of Drizzt fanboys Behaving Badly.

...Oh hell, I just noticed she has a slap at Salvatore on the front page of her journal atm. Woman can hold a grudge, I'll give her that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wook77, 2012-08-09 04:54 am UTC
Ancient Drow Tales - [info]realitydeviant, 2012-08-09 03:01 pm UTC
Re: Ancient Drow Tales - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-08-10 01:18 am UTC

[info]seiberwing
2012-08-09 05:23 am UTC (link)
On a slightly related note, I found this a bit ago. I feel like you could play Social Justice Sally Bingo with this wank.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2012-08-09 09:50 am UTC (link)
I got to "Supports PETA" and now I cannot stop giggling.

I don't know if it's because that one is so funny or if it's because the last few weeks of my (internet) life have been filled with so much SJW wankage that I've reached critical mass and finally snapped.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arionhunter, 2012-08-10 03:00 am UTC

[info]sepiamagpie
2012-08-12 04:38 am UTC (link)
I think I fucking hate that tumblr.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chikane
2012-08-10 07:14 am UTC (link)
I love wanks (even unfunny ones) where literally everyone is being despicable in some way.

No side picking or feeling particularly bad for anyone here, that's for sure, except Kari Sperring (sure, she was being terrible, but I know some people that tried to kill themselves for less, mocking that feels really shitty to me).

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]goblin
2012-08-10 06:06 pm UTC (link)
Actually, Kari Sperring/la_marquise_de was the one person I felt came off well in this whole situation. Both on Valente's lj and on mervenn's, she presented her points, responded without ever attacking anyone, and was just all around really low-key and rational. Even when Valente went full blown "omg how dare you tell me about your recent suicide attempt, I felt bad tooooo" (and her claim that she couldn't blog for days after their intial exchange is just plain not true--she posted all over the place during that time), la_marquise_de didn't go off the rails. If anything, she's almost *too* calm and kind about it all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2012-08-10 08:21 pm UTC

[info]cinnamonical
2012-08-16 09:08 am UTC (link)
GDIT, I used to follow Cat Valente, and I'd bookmarked a lot of her previous posts because they had good things to say. And I liked Liz Williams' books too...

(Reply to this)


 
   
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