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Bethan ([info]kumquat_of_doom) wrote in [info]unfunny_fandom,
@ 2010-12-05 02:12:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Cissplaining and Ass-Haberdashery and Pseudo-Intellectualism, oh my!
Over at [info]the_hms_stfu, [info]farmercuerden makes a post declaring, and I quote,'"hir" must die.'

This goes about as well as might be expected, but [info]farmercuerden continues to faff about being a twazzock and generally cisplaining (cissplaining?) up a storm.

On the plus side, at least [info]sailorlum learns from her mistakes and eventually issues an unreserved apology for doing the same thing, an example that the OP could probably benefit from.

(Full disclosure: I'm in there for one comment, before it occurred to me that the post would do better to be linked here considering that other people have got in with the Earth Logic before me.)

ETA: Aaand we have lockdown! [info]chienne has the original post capped here.

I also managed to restore a copy, and after taking a frankly embarrassing length of time to transform it into a .jpeg, I present you with a cap of the original post with all the comments up to when I commented.

ETA Harder: Houston, we have a banhammer! And a well-swung one, too, IMO.

ETA With A Vengeance: Oh, look at what happens when my internet's out. [info]sailorlum helpfully posts a nice, organised recap of all the posts that got lost between my screencap and when [info]farmercuerden froze comments. Cookies to them!

And, in a move that anyone with half a braincell could have told him not to make, [info]farmercuerden decides to pay us all a call. Cue yet MORE cissplaining, pillocking about, and a total inability to understand that the word 'cisgender' DOES NOT MEAN WHAT HE THINKS IT MEANS. Oh yes, and he deletes his own comments over here, as well - except unfortunately for him, both [info]sailorlum and I have notifs switched on and got copies. [info]sailorlum provides them here.

Incidentally, back over at [info]the_hms_stfu, we get a little more info on the comments going bye-bye.

Finally (at least, for the moment), via [info]chalts: [info]farmercuerden is apparently still playing the martyr like it's going out of fashion, AND STILL DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT 'CISGENDERED' MEANS. Cry moar, twonk.

Live Free Or ETA Hard: [info]farmercuerden is duly banninated by Sep for comment deletion. In the words of Charlie Brown, GOOD GRIEF.

Really, if it weren't for the subject matter this would be a perfect [info]fandom_wank post. It's been a while since I saw such a perfect storm of utter stupid. And now I'm going to be singing 'Just keep digging' (to the tune of Dory's 'Just keep swimming' song from Finding Nemo) all night...


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]farmercuerden
2010-12-07 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Just before deletion and lockdown, there were some anonymous comments, and ones by esclaramonde in which, among other things, I was accused of wanting to kill cisgendered peopl. They don't seem to be quoted here, probably because, when I saw them, I wasn't sure what to do, and foolishly decided to delete them while deciding.

I don't know what to say to this. Obviously, cisgendered people deserve an apology, and my only excuse is that I've never actually met or encountered the community, leaving me ignorant of where I went. I did get defensive, for which I apologise, but the leap from "Oh, dear" to "You want to kill cisgendered people, the "hir" must die proves it" - when I knew what I meant by that, and it was referring to what I thought was solely a substitute for "he or she" and "they".

Well, never mind. The hms stfu was the only place on LJ or JF I posted, so I doubt you'll ever see me again.



(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]spacelogic
2010-12-07 06:53 pm UTC (link)
....you need to look up "cisgendered" ASAP. Hint: it's not me, it's you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sisterelwood
2010-12-07 07:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, never mind. The hms stfu was the only place on LJ or JF I posted, so I doubt you'll ever see me again.

Bye!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]notjo
2010-12-07 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Hon, please learn what the words you use actually mean before using them anymore. Google "cisgender" as soon as possible, it will help. Also, stop ignoring history. Gender-neutral third-person singular pronouns in English pre-date the internet by about 150 years, as a replacement for the not-actually-gender-neutral use of "him".

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sailorlum
2010-12-07 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Just before deletion and lockdown, there were some anonymous comments, and ones by esclaramonde in which, among other things, I was accused of wanting to kill cisgendered peopl. They don't seem to be quoted here, probably because, when I saw them, I wasn't sure what to do, and foolishly decided to delete them while deciding.

The moment someone hits "enter" on a comment to a thread or topic I'm tracking, it goes right to my e-mail, even if it's deleted one second later and goes poof from the JF inbox. (For instance, I’ve got 5 messages you posted to this topic here on unfunny_fandom, in my e-mail inbox, that were quickly deleted and no longer show up in the JF inbox). The comment by you in your topic on the hms_stfu, made on 12/5/2010 12:14 AM EST, is the last comment that came in for that topic. Any other messages you received must have been PM’s. As indicated by this thread here: http://www.journalfen.net/community/the_hms_stfu/522415.html?thread=17970863#t17970863 , esclaramonde did speak with you, but it had to have been a private PM (or in an unrelated post I wasn't tracking, which seems unlikely) or I’d have gotten it in my e-mail box.

In the comments preserved in the cap here: http://pics.livejournal.com/has_photoshop/pic/00001b2g , someone (wankismyfandom) does mention the unfortunate implications of your post, but these were not accusations of you wanting to kill anyone. I’d bet good money that this is what esclaramonde was trying to point out to you, as well.

Well, never mind. The hms stfu was the only place on LJ or JF I posted, so I doubt you'll ever see me again.

Farewell, then.

PS: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sisterelwood
2010-12-07 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Mmmm, that is a lovely serving of 'boo-YAH' there. Well played.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sailorlum
2010-12-07 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Thank you. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]ecchaniz0r
2010-12-08 07:23 am UTC (link)
*one-geek standing ovation*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sailorlum
2010-12-08 07:26 am UTC (link)
Thank you very much. /Elvis-style :}

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]kumquat_of_doom
2010-12-08 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Oh, well played, well played.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sailorlum
2010-12-09 06:28 am UTC (link)
Thank you. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]microclimate
2010-12-07 10:41 pm UTC (link)
lol

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]ekaterinv
2010-12-08 12:07 am UTC (link)
Obviously, cisgendered people deserve an apology

What? No we don't, unless you happen to hit us in a broader apology for making a mess in the comm.

Come on, I know you're smarter than this. :/

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:35 am UTC (link)
...Dammit. I was thinking chemistry. So transgendered is opposite, and I presumed cis is close together, e.g androgynous.

Okay. Well, then, that makes me understand what this wank is about: If this is about transgedered people who desire to express their ambiguous genders, and these words are the ones they prefer...

...Oh... hell...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:36 am UTC (link)
Riiight. that was pretty insensitive handling by me, wasn't it? Shit.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:42 am UTC (link)
...I thought it was situations like large clitorises, which I knew were often cut down to make people fit gender roles, but physical situation is not equal to gender, and I did not want to come out and say that people who do *not* consider their gender ambiguous - whatever gender they feel they are - should be treated as ambiguous because the speaker feels their ambiguity. Gender is their choice. If the situation is just transgender, then that sort of qualification was completely not on.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:46 am UTC (link)
It's like how a person who feels they're a male in a woman's body shouldn't be treated as an ambiguous gender - they're male. Gender is, in the end, a personal and social construct. I'd be offended if someone insisted on calling my friend Timm (genetically female) either "she" OR "xe", because he's male, and I think that came out in my very failed attempt at an apology.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]sunhawk
2010-12-08 06:21 am UTC (link)
The very best thing you could do right now is STOP TALKING unless you are saying "I'm sorry for being a privileged asshole, I will work on cutting that out." etc.

Just stop talking.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sisterelwood
2010-12-08 07:50 am UTC (link)
Seriously? Seriously? You didn't Google that shit as it became glaringly obvious you might be wrong about the meaning of the word? SERIOUSLY?

You need to just shut up now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

For you, and for anyone who might be curious
[info]sequinedlizard
2010-12-08 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Whoa... you have stepped in it here. Let's break it down:

"cisgender" -having a match between gender identity and the behavior or role considered appropriate for one's sex (so, no disconnect between the gender a person identifies as and the gender they'd be assigned by society based on their sex)

"transgender" - a person's gender identity does NOT match the behavior or roles considered appropriate for their sex (so there IS a disconnect between the gender a person identifies as and the gender they'd be assigned by society based on their sex

Some people who are transgendered undergo surgery to change their sex to align better with their gender identity. This would be transsexual. One may be transgendered without undergoing surgery to change one's sex.

Then there are people who are genderqueer, which is kind of a catch-all term for people who do not fall into a specific gender identity, regardless of their sex. I am an example - I am a cissexual female assigned at birth that does not gender identify as a woman. I generally use the term "agender," meaning I do not gender identify, as myself. My gender is not "ambiguous," it simply is not something I identify with.

As you can see from the above - we can use "cis" and "trans" to refer to EITHER sex or gender. I am cissexual, but I am not cisgendered. I am also not ambiguously gendered. There are transsexual individuals who identify as transsexual but cisgendered (i.e., they underwent surgery to change their sex, therefore there is no disconnect between what society perceives as appropriate for their sex and their gender identity anymore).

So, for pronouns. Yes, your friend Timm should have masculine pronouns used to identify him (don't bother with the "genetically female" disclaimer, it's both offensive and pointless) - he identifies as a man, he's a he. If he prefers to be called he, and that fact is known, I would consider it offensive to use gender neutral OR feminine pronouns to refer to him. If people DON'T KNOW his gender identity (which is common in online discussions), it is considerate.

Gender neutral pronouns work for people who DO NOT gender identify, AND for writing about people who's gender identity is NOT KNOWN. That's it - there's no pretentiousness involved.

So, you done fucked up. And you compounded the fuckup by not doing a search on terms like "cisgendered" and arguing from wrong assumptions, and generally flapping your ass in the breeze. Hopefully my explanation helped. Next time, if you don't know, apologize, consider yourself lucky you don't have to deal with these issues every day of your life, do some reading, and find a place to ask questions.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious
[info]kumquat_of_doom
2010-12-08 09:11 pm UTC (link)
*applause*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious
[info]sandglass
2010-12-09 02:29 am UTC (link)
Thank you for the awesome explanation of cisgender and transgender! I've been wondering how those differed from *sexual

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious - [info]sequinedlizard, 2010-12-09 02:43 am UTC
Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]kumquat_of_doom
2010-12-08 09:07 pm UTC (link)
Dear twonk,

A suggestion, if I may. STOP FUCKING TALKING.

I am going to be spending all night singing 'Just keep digging' (to the tune of Dory's 'just keep swimming' song in Finding Nemo) as it is.

No love,
A thoroughly irritated [info]kumquat_of_doom

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]cyndra_falin
2010-12-09 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Twonk. I like that. Mind if I use it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The last comments before lockdown... - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-12-09 10:20 pm UTC
Re: The last comments before lockdown...
[info]ecchaniz0r
2010-12-08 07:21 am UTC (link)
You stupid, stupid nutsack.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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