Cissplaining and Ass-Haberdashery and Pseudo-Intellectualism, oh my!
Over at

farmercuerden makes a post declaring, and I quote,'"hir" must die.'

This goes about as well as might be expected, but

farmercuerden continues to faff about being a twazzock and generally cisplaining (cissplaining?) up a storm.

On the plus side, at least

sailorlum learns from her mistakes and eventually issues an unreserved apology for doing the same thing, an example that the OP could probably benefit from.

(Full disclosure: I'm in there for one comment, before it occurred to me that the post would do better to be linked here considering that other people have got in with the Earth Logic before me.)

ETA: Aaand we have lockdown!

chienne has the original post capped here.

I also managed to restore a copy, and after taking a frankly embarrassing length of time to transform it into a .jpeg, I present you with a cap of the original post with all the comments up to when I commented.

ETA Harder: Houston, we have a banhammer! And a well-swung one, too, IMO.

ETA With A Vengeance: Oh, look at what happens when my internet's out.

sailorlum helpfully posts a nice, organised recap of all the posts that got lost between my screencap and when

farmercuerden froze comments. Cookies to them!

And, in a move that anyone with half a braincell could have told him not to make,

farmercuerden decides to pay us all a call. Cue yet MORE cissplaining, pillocking about, and a total inability to understand that the word 'cisgender' DOES NOT MEAN WHAT HE THINKS IT MEANS. Oh yes, and he deletes his own comments over here, as well - except unfortunately for him, both

sailorlum and I have notifs switched on and got copies.

sailorlum provides them here.

Incidentally, back over at

the_hms_stfu, we get a little more info on the comments going bye-bye.

Finally (at least, for the moment), via

chalts:

farmercuerden is apparently still playing the martyr like it's going out of fashion, AND STILL DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT 'CISGENDERED' MEANS. Cry moar, twonk.

Live Free Or ETA Hard:

farmercuerden is duly banninated by Sep for comment deletion. In the words of Charlie Brown, GOOD GRIEF.

Really, if it weren't for the subject matter this would be a perfect

fandom_wank post. It's been a while since I saw such a perfect storm of utter stupid. And now I'm going to be singing 'Just keep digging' (to the tune of Dory's 'Just keep swimming' song from Finding Nemo) all night...

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Re: The last comments before lockdown...

farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:42 am UTC (link)

...I thought it was situations like large clitorises, which I knew were often cut down to make people fit gender roles, but physical situation is not equal to gender, and I did not want to come out and say that people who do *not* consider their gender ambiguous - whatever gender they feel they are - should be treated as ambiguous because the speaker feels their ambiguity. Gender is their choice. If the situation is just transgender, then that sort of qualification was completely not on.

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Re: The last comments before lockdown...

farmercuerden
2010-12-08 03:46 am UTC (link)

It's like how a person who feels they're a male in a woman's body shouldn't be treated as an ambiguous gender - they're male. Gender is, in the end, a personal and social construct. I'd be offended if someone insisted on calling my friend Timm (genetically female) either "she" OR "xe", because he's male, and I think that came out in my very failed attempt at an apology.

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	Re: The last comments before lockdown... sunhawk 2010-12-08 06:21 am UTC (link)
	The very best thing you could do right now is STOP TALKING unless you are saying "I'm sorry for being a privileged asshole, I will work on cutting that out." etc. Just stop talking. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sisterelwood 2010-12-08 07:50 am UTC (link)
	Seriously? Seriously? You didn't Google that shit as it became glaringly obvious you might be wrong about the meaning of the word? SERIOUSLY? You need to just shut up now. (Reply to this)(Parent)

For you, and for anyone who might be curious

sequinedlizard
2010-12-08 08:21 pm UTC (link)

Whoa... you have stepped in it here. Let's break it down:

"cisgender" -having a match between gender identity and the behavior or role considered appropriate for one's sex (so, no disconnect between the gender a person identifies as and the gender they'd be assigned by society based on their sex)

"transgender" - a person's gender identity does NOT match the behavior or roles considered appropriate for their sex (so there IS a disconnect between the gender a person identifies as and the gender they'd be assigned by society based on their sex

Some people who are transgendered undergo surgery to change their sex to align better with their gender identity. This would be transsexual. One may be transgendered without undergoing surgery to change one's sex.

Then there are people who are genderqueer, which is kind of a catch-all term for people who do not fall into a specific gender identity, regardless of their sex. I am an example - I am a cissexual female assigned at birth that does not gender identify as a woman. I generally use the term "agender," meaning I do not gender identify, as myself. My gender is not "ambiguous," it simply is not something I identify with.

As you can see from the above - we can use "cis" and "trans" to refer to EITHER sex or gender. I am cissexual, but I am not cisgendered. I am also not ambiguously gendered. There are transsexual individuals who identify as transsexual but cisgendered (i.e., they underwent surgery to change their sex, therefore there is no disconnect between what society perceives as appropriate for their sex and their gender identity anymore).

So, for pronouns. Yes, your friend Timm should have masculine pronouns used to identify him (don't bother with the "genetically female" disclaimer, it's both offensive and pointless) - he identifies as a man, he's a he. If he prefers to be called he, and that fact is known, I would consider it offensive to use gender neutral OR feminine pronouns to refer to him. If people DON'T KNOW his gender identity (which is common in online discussions), it is considerate.

Gender neutral pronouns work for people who DO NOT gender identify, AND for writing about people who's gender identity is NOT KNOWN. That's it - there's no pretentiousness involved.

So, you done fucked up. And you compounded the fuckup by not doing a search on terms like "cisgendered" and arguing from wrong assumptions, and generally flapping your ass in the breeze. Hopefully my explanation helped. Next time, if you don't know, apologize, consider yourself lucky you don't have to deal with these issues every day of your life, do some reading, and find a place to ask questions.

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	Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious kumquat_of_doom 2010-12-08 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	applause (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious sandglass 2010-12-09 02:29 am UTC (link)
	Thank you for the awesome explanation of cisgender and transgender! I've been wondering how those differed from *sexual (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: For you, and for anyone who might be curious

sequinedlizard
2010-12-09 02:43 am UTC (link)

It's part of the problem of people using "gender" as a polite euphemism for "sex." Generally people can mostly get "sex is biological, gender is psychological/social" but that's still simplifying things, so things like "transgender" and "transsexual" get smooshed together, when really they're related but not the same.

Reading my comment again, I should have said that "transgender" is more having a gender identity that is the opposite of one's socially assigned gender, not just having a different gender identity. I did not proofread well in my annoyance :)

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	Re: The last comments before lockdown... kumquat_of_doom 2010-12-08 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	Dear twonk, A suggestion, if I may. STOP FUCKING TALKING. I am going to be spending all night singing 'Just keep digging' (to the tune of Dory's 'just keep swimming' song in Finding Nemo) as it is. No love, A thoroughly irritated kumquat_of_doom (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: The last comments before lockdown... cyndra_falin 2010-12-09 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	Twonk. I like that. Mind if I use it? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: The last comments before lockdown... kumquat_of_doom 2010-12-09 10:20 pm UTC (link)
	Feel free! It's one of my mother's words in any case. She has a great turn of phrase, when she wants. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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