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caitiedid (caitiedid) wrote in unfunny_fandom,
@ 2011-02-01 17:05:00

Penny Arcade says, "Rape culture is hilarious!"
Has anyone else been following the Penny Arcade Dickwolf Controversy (as I've taken to calling it)? The whole thing started with this comic, posted in August, which many readers took offense to due to an unfunny rape joke. The argument was revived with new fervor recently, and it's still ongoing. Personally, I'm finding it really difficult to enjoy the comic lately, because of the way this whole thing has been handled.

A better and more thorough write-up than I could ever hope to put together has been posted here.

Edit: Via seiberwing: An interesting protest movement has arisen on Tumblr.
Edit again: A couple of comments have indicated that the Tumblr linked in the above post has malware, so tread lightly.

Edit 3: Via lady7jane: This isn't the first time that Mike has exhibited douchebaggy behavior. "I don't know, Love Systems doesn't seem so bad to me."

Edit 4: Via airawyn and alexa: Jerry responds.

Edit 5: Via number13baby, Mike calls for the discussion to end.

(Post a new comment)

	ravenscanary 2011-02-02 01:15 am UTC (link)
	I no longer read or support the comic at all. The way they're handling this issue is asinine to the strongest possible degree, full of arrogant mansplaining and straw man arguments about violence vs. rape and the First Amendment and it's all just so fail there aren't words. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	caitiedid 2011-02-02 01:32 am UTC (link)
	I did finally stop following Mike and Jerry on Twitter (and Scott Kurtz of PvP for similar reasons, but that's neither here nor there), and I will most likely stop reading the comic as a result of this whole train wreck. It's all just so gross and infuriating. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chikane 2011-02-02 08:01 am UTC (link)
	Same here. Their behavior is really, really assholish about it. And their fanbash, gosh...they are just being completely horrible about it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

dottiness
2011-02-02 01:16 am UTC (link)

I have been following this and I'm getting so tired of people flinging "misandry" around like it's something that actually exists in quantifiable numbers. Yes, every person who dislikes this comic is a "misandrist" who is "censoring" Penny Arcade and not someone who just called the comic out on being privileged and ignorant.

I'm glad the guys finally took the shirt down but

a) It never should have been make
b) Their "we're still the victims here" stance is really annoying
c) Why the hell won't they even try to rein in their fanbase? They're running rampant, calling everyone who disagrees misandrists and whiners and "against free speech," telling rape survivors horrible things and calling them awful names, and the most we've seen is Gabe saying "I think it's going to be uncomfortable to be a guy at PAX." No it won't be, but I almost wish it was. Then at least they might realize they had fucked up, instead of this "small ~emotional~ vocal minority" approach.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	dottiness 2011-02-02 01:17 am UTC (link)
	*never should have been made. Apparently I'm so bothered by this that I'm typoing. Whoops guess I'm just too EMOTIONAL, Penny Arcade. It's like they read Derailing for Dummies and took it as a literal guide. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dottiness 2011-02-02 01:24 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I also recommend reading Courtney Stanton's post on the subject: Why I'm Not Speaking At PAX East 2011. Don't look at the comments though. Trust me. Just don't. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 01:30 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-02 01:41 am UTC

tiasian, 2011-02-05 06:23 pm UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-06 12:57 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-06 12:59 am UTC

tehrin, 2011-02-02 07:17 am UTC

fools_game, 2011-02-02 12:06 pm UTC

cyndra_falin, 2011-02-02 11:18 pm UTC

	sandglass 2011-02-02 03:17 am UTC (link)
	Did you see that right after Gabe explained why they took the shirt down, he said he'd wear it to PAX anyway? Clearly he doesn't really care about people being comfortable at PAX. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

dottiness, 2011-02-02 03:24 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 03:56 am UTC

alexa, 2011-02-02 05:52 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-02 06:11 am UTC

alexa, 2011-02-02 06:44 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 07:38 am UTC

sistercoyote, 2011-02-02 11:19 pm UTC

full_metal_ox, 2011-02-05 02:18 am UTC

emily_goddess, 2011-02-02 06:51 pm UTC

	seiberwing 2011-02-02 01:40 am UTC (link)
	Some people on tumblr have chosen an interesting method of protest. (Reply to this)(Thread)

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 01:47 am UTC

seiberwing, 2011-02-02 01:49 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 03:11 am UTC

miraba, 2011-02-02 03:34 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 03:53 am UTC

Possible malware -

thebratqueen, 2011-02-02 05:30 am UTC

Re: Possible malware -

tehrin, 2011-02-02 07:34 am UTC

Re: Possible malware -

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 07:45 am UTC

Re: Possible malware -

tehrin, 2011-02-02 07:59 am UTC

	ianthefira 2011-02-02 02:05 am UTC (link)
	I read Penny Arcade for over a decade. Not any more. (Reply to this)(Thread)

quantumreality, 2011-02-02 04:46 am UTC

alexa, 2011-02-02 04:24 pm UTC

ianthefira, 2011-02-02 06:30 pm UTC

	lostmahmarbles 2011-02-02 02:09 am UTC (link)
	Some video game guys are sexist. This has rocked my very world. Seriously though, people expect better of the guys who came up with the Fruit Fucker. Really? (Reply to this)(Thread)

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 04:02 am UTC

lostmahmarbles, 2011-02-02 04:19 am UTC

microclimate, 2011-02-02 05:05 am UTC

rosehiptea, 2011-02-02 06:31 am UTC

esorlehcar, 2011-02-02 05:10 am UTC

cyndra_falin, 2011-02-02 06:00 am UTC

airawyn, 2011-02-02 06:32 am UTC

cyndra_falin, 2011-02-02 11:21 pm UTC

ravenscanary, 2011-02-02 08:18 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 08:38 am UTC

cyndra_falin, 2011-02-02 09:00 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 09:04 am UTC

wook77, 2011-02-02 05:03 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 09:00 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 08:55 am UTC

lady_jafaria, 2011-02-02 04:57 pm UTC

phosfate, 2011-02-02 03:54 pm UTC

grenadeofbees, 2011-02-05 07:13 am UTC

	ecchaniz0r 2011-02-02 02:55 am UTC (link)
	Gods, they're pissy and whiny, aren't they? (Reply to this)

	Possible Trigger Warning alexielnet 2011-02-02 03:06 am UTC (link)
	While reading about this, I ended up in post on SF_Drama and I just want to warn people about page 2. It gets really, really nasty due to a particularly awful person having a go at rape victims. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Possible Trigger Warning -

cyndra_falin, 2011-02-02 04:42 am UTC

Re: Possible Trigger Warning -

alexielnet, 2011-02-02 05:17 am UTC

Re: Possible Trigger Warning -

agent_hyatt, 2011-02-02 05:29 am UTC

Re: Possible Trigger Warning -

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 05:38 am UTC

Re: Possible Trigger Warning -

alexielnet, 2011-02-02 05:56 am UTC

wook77
2011-02-02 03:54 am UTC (link)

Completely derailing away from the Dickwolf bit, I saw on this post about not speaking at PAX East that RAINN supports transphobic organizations? Anyone got further information? I have shitty google-fu.

Going back to the dickwolf bits - the initial comic was awful but the response to it is absolute fail, especially the t-shirts and pennants. Yet I bet they're among the first to whine about women not attending events and how dare they bitch about not being invited to shit?! Ugh. Fuckers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 04:31 am UTC

wook77, 2011-02-02 05:33 am UTC

jaseroque, 2011-02-02 04:56 am UTC

wook77, 2011-02-02 05:32 am UTC

jaseroque, 2011-02-02 05:37 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-02 06:02 am UTC

jaseroque, 2011-02-02 06:03 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-02 06:05 am UTC

jaseroque, 2011-02-02 06:13 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-02 06:16 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 08:53 am UTC

inquisition, 2011-02-02 08:14 pm UTC

	microclimate 2011-02-02 04:55 am UTC (link)
	I've had an emotionally rough day and that tumblr is one of the things that brightened my mood just a little bit. What it's in response to is shitty as all hell, but I'm extremely happy that people are willing to take such a bold stand against this. (Reply to this)

ekaterinv
2011-02-02 06:05 am UTC (link)

There seems to have been so much rape apologizing and rape cheerleading in the past year, and the rape cheerleaders seem to be to the point where they're about to burst a blood vessel with their screeching, anger and abuse. I would like to think that is a good thing.

As Nicholas Klein, trade union activist, said, "First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you."

(Reply to this)

rosehiptea
2011-02-02 06:38 am UTC (link)

There was an anti-Penny Arcade post on fandomsecrets a few days ago and the overwhelming majority of the comments on it were people who either seemed to have no idea what was going on (despite being Penny Arcade fans) or just didn't get why it was a big deal. It was really depressing.

(And also a lot of "But they do charity stuff you guyz!" like that makes them incapable of being assholes.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

ichigatsu, 2011-02-02 10:41 am UTC

	cleolinda 2011-02-02 06:55 am UTC (link)
	I can't believe they're throwing it all away for dickwolves. I mean... I guess to say that implies that there's something worth being a complete jackass over, and there's not, but... dickwolves? (Reply to this)(Thread)

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 07:13 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 07:24 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 08:42 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 08:51 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 09:41 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 09:45 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 10:04 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-02 10:29 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 09:27 pm UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 09:08 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 09:54 am UTC

lilychan, 2011-03-13 11:34 am UTC

exstarsis
2011-02-02 07:08 am UTC (link)

I always interpreted the original comic as them coming up with the worst monster they could imagine. The worst possible fate a game could inflict on an NPC that a player could ignore-- since, well, that was what the comic was mocking. In that context, dickwolves does not particularly bother me. No more than Fruit Fucker, anyhow.

That said, Team Dickwolves as shirts makes very little sense, except as kneejerk defensiveness, or as a really, really poorly thought out attempt to defend free speech. I know they make their living being assholes, but I'm glad they stopped selling the shirts.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 07:21 am UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-02 07:27 am UTC

blue_penguin, 2011-02-02 12:46 pm UTC

youngcurmudgeon, 2011-02-02 07:06 pm UTC

caitiedid, 2011-02-02 08:56 pm UTC

lady7jane, 2011-02-03 02:01 am UTC

caitiedid, 2011-02-03 02:06 am UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2011-02-03 06:14 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 08:49 am UTC

alexa, 2011-02-02 01:17 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-02 08:45 am UTC

queencallipygos, 2011-02-02 11:15 am UTC

alexa, 2011-02-02 06:00 pm UTC

littleshebear, 2011-02-02 07:43 pm UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2011-02-03 01:33 am UTC

lissibith, 2011-02-03 03:50 pm UTC

	tehrin 2011-02-02 07:23 am UTC (link)
	I wish I had the power to punch rape apologists through the internet. (Reply to this)

laerwen
2011-02-03 05:47 am UTC (link)

I read this comic for the last several years. I don't anymore. I stopped following Mike and Jerry on Twitter, unsubbed from their RSS feed and I won't be going to any of their cons as I was considering doing. The way they are behaving is sheer arrogance, and it's indefensible. I hope they enjoy rolling in their piles of money over having some goddamn integrity and decency.

Oh, but what am I saying? I'm just a sensitive snowflake who clearly doesn't "get" their brand of "humor". To think I ever admired Mike for any of his talent as an artist. These guys are fathers to small children and husbands. Terrifying. :(

(Reply to this)

number13baby
2011-02-03 08:34 pm UTC (link)

I really, really don't get Mike's stance on this. His behavior in the PUA/Love Systems discussion link is so different. He says something stupid, people email him, he does some research, develops a more nuanced stance and posts about it. But now, he's completely unwilling to even look into the concept of rape culture and his behavior on Twitter is just beyond the pale. I'm sure he sees himself as a good guy who is working to make the gaming culture more inclusive and so having all those people calling him out as a rape apologist must be at odds with how he views himself and is probably pretty painful for him. But if he has a modicum of self-awareness, he has to realize that he's so not the victim here and that he's due for some serious examination of his actions. But no, he's just doubling down and acting more and more douchey by the day.

I was actually one of those people who did not think that the original comic was "that bad". It wasn't funny and there was no need to use rape as a punchline, but I was willing to let it slide as par for the course for PA. But in retrospect, everything that has transpired really illustrates the workings of rape culture and the connections between discourse that minimizes rape and acts of sexualized violence. And yeah, sure, it's "just" the Internet, but how else to describe the tweets of "Rape Rape Rape" and photos of mutilated women sent to a rape survivor?

(Reply to this)

	airawyn 2011-02-03 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	Jerry has responded and seems to be missing the point. http://www.penny-arcade.com/2011/2/2/ (scroll to bottom) (Reply to this)(Thread)

caitiedid, 2011-02-03 09:48 pm UTC

alexa
2011-02-03 09:43 pm UTC (link)

Jerry has made a post addressing the issue. It's certainly better than some of the slimy crap Mike has been throwing up on twitter.

A couple things, though: he doesn't seem to get that what a lot of people are objecting to isn't necessarily the original comic. Many people didn't read the comic as "pro-rape", and understood that the punchline hinged on the idea that rape was bad. But that absolutely does not excuse the subsequent responses to criticism (making a "TEAM DICKWOLVES" t-shirt, generally being taunting and dismissive, and denying that they might have done anything to warrant the backlash).

Also, he still seems to be tacitly disagreeing that rape culture really exists. Statements like "The only people who are pro-rape are rapists."... it's not exactly wrong, but it minimizes the issue. Yes, rapists must be held personally responsible for their crimes. But we live in a culture where something like one in three women and one in thirty men will experience rape or sexual assault. These aren't rare, isolated incidents. It's a fucking epidemic. Ignoring that the attitudes of rapists (toward sex, toward women, toward people in general) are fostered by a larger cultural issue is reductive and unhelpful.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

alexa, 2011-02-03 09:44 pm UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-03 10:33 pm UTC

alexa, 2011-02-03 10:43 pm UTC

ekaterinv, 2011-02-04 03:59 am UTC

thehunter, 2011-02-03 10:49 pm UTC

thehunter, 2011-02-03 10:58 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-04 04:25 am UTC

littleshebear, 2011-02-04 12:52 pm UTC

thehunter, 2011-02-04 01:52 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-04 07:31 pm UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2011-02-04 08:31 pm UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-05 11:09 am UTC

kattahj, 2011-02-04 07:37 pm UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-05 01:07 am UTC

kattahj, 2011-02-05 10:59 am UTC

cmdr_zoom, 2011-02-04 08:31 pm UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-05 11:13 am UTC

greenling, 2011-02-03 11:04 pm UTC

number13baby, 2011-02-03 11:31 pm UTC

alexa, 2011-02-04 12:08 am UTC

number13baby, 2011-02-04 01:11 am UTC

sandglass, 2011-02-04 04:33 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-05 11:16 am UTC

caitiedid, 2011-02-04 03:51 am UTC

thehunter, 2011-02-04 02:13 pm UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-04 12:42 am UTC

esorlehcar, 2011-02-05 01:15 am UTC

dottiness, 2011-02-05 01:59 am UTC

eleutheria, 2011-02-05 11:18 am UTC

airawyn, 2011-02-05 04:54 pm UTC

chikane, 2011-02-05 10:00 pm UTC

lauchlen, 2011-02-05 11:26 pm UTC

bienegold, 2011-02-05 05:54 pm UTC

alexa, 2011-02-05 06:11 pm UTC

	ekaterinv 2011-02-05 05:33 am UTC (link)
	Shakesville's response: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/02/my-point-here-it-is.html. (Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)

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